Should I start or should I wait?

[LipZ]

Hello! I hope you're all doing great, and kindly ask for your advice!

Before we get into the subject, I'd like to tell you my story to clarify things a bit. Please, be patient. If you want to go straight to business, there's a TL;DR at the end.

Here we go...

I have little beard. More of a goatee and neck, with little hair growth on my cheeks. My beard takes a lot to grow (think of one week without shaving for me is like 3 or 4 days for someone with regular beard growth. Also, my skin is terribly sensitive.

About three years ago, I found out about wet shaving, and how it could save my skin and my pocket. So, i got a Merkur DE and a lot (A LOT) of blades from Lord, Derby and Wilkinson, and have been pretty happy with this setup, although sometimes I get a little bit more razor burn than I'd like. That's OK... I never thought I could justify all the work and cost of a SR.

Last week, I went to the barber to get a haircut. While I was at it, and thinking I deserved some relaxing time, I got a nice shave, which was done using a shavette and half DE Blades. The result was so good that I got impressed, and thinking about what I was missing.

Since I have loads of DE blades, I thought about getting a shavette. So, with a little bit of research, I found that there are shavettes that use long blades to "mimic" a SR. Got interested in a Boker Barbarette, for which I even starded a topic and got some help from very nice fellas around here (Thanks!).

I found out that all long shavettes use a certain type of blade, because longer disposables aren't standard sized as DEs. I'd need to mod the razor or get used to specific brands. Not what I wanted to do, so I set about buying a Parker shavette.

But something has been bothering me since. Suddenly, something has changed. It's all different.

I've been looking too much about SRs, like I never did.

Not about shaving with them, but about looking for beat up, old rusty, ugly and forgotten ones, and getting them to life again. Restoring old SRs seems to be 1) learning/a challenge; 2) lot of fun; 3) really rewarding.

So, here I am! I've read a lot here and on other places, seen a lot of videos, made a lot of research. I need to know where I'm stepping, and I hope I can count with your help and advice!

Right now, I don't have any intention on shaving with a SR. This might change.

Thanks for your reading! Now to what this is really about.

Is being able to shave with a SR essential for learning how to hone and finish? What, exactly, should I get from SR shaving in order to feel prepared to start honing? My interest, actually, is to get SRs in bad condition, and make them usable/shave ready in as good form as possible (and my skill allows me).

I say this because I don't have immediate interest in getting a SR already honed to, in 3 to 6 months get a finisher stone and learn "backwards" (for the lack of better word), but I could bear with it if it was essential. This would also add the cost of a shave ready SR.

I've read that I can hone on film or stone. Can I mix and match? Start on stone/finish on film or start on film/finish on stone? I thought about getting film to learn, and buy stones as I progress - specially finishing stones (or keep to film. who knows?).

In your opinion, is there a better method regarding holding the stone/film vs laying it on the table/counter?

Regarding all this questions and the ones we know will come up, should I start this now? Should I wait until I get the hang of using a SR? Or should I leave this behind?

All best! And thank you for your time!

EDIT: TL;DR: Want to get into honing and restoring, but never used a SR razor before. Should I give it a go? Also, please, leave some advice you deem important. Thanks!

 

[duke762]

I posted almost the same post a couple years ago. I asked how I could become a Honemeister. Some one pointed out that it was hard to do if you are not shaving with them. I first came here to read about how to prep a black surgical Ark. I thought sharpening a straight was way cool and anyone could master it in a day or 2. Wanted to learn how to sharpen them and told myself I'd never shave with one. The way my hands shook as took the first tentative pass down my cheek....just to see what it was like and what my edge was like. By what I can do now, my edge was laughable at best. I persisted thinking I could do better. Didn't even strop, just a pass to measure edge development, straight off the stone. I wasn't planning on shaving, I didn't even own a strop til fairly recently.

Took a long time to get comfortable trying to shave a single swipe with a straight. Almost scared of them. I came from a knife honing back ground and never handled anything this sharp.

That grew into full shaves with stropping, and HAD, SAD rearing their ugly heads.

It's a rabbit hole, but the shaves are fantastic and less irritation than even my electric!!!

 

[LipZ]

Thanks for your answer, Duke!

Good to know I'm not alone in this situation. Maybe, someday I'll be bit by the will of using a SR. I also assume that using something that you managed to restore and hone by yourself takes the shaving experience to a whole other level.

How did you manage to learn before shaving with a SR? And how did you hone your skills (no pun intended)?

I'm seriously thinking about getting a shavette to bring down the pile of DE blades I have. The idea of using the blade directly on the skin is, indeed, a little scary.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

First of all, Shavetes are not as forgiving as a real straight. As far as honing before using a straight, its next to impossible. You will never know if your edge is shave ready until you know what one feels like. You may be able to make a razor sharp, but shave ready takes time. Films i know nothing about but i will say it took me over 2 years before i learned to properly hone. Some say its easy to learn. But when you get a razor with a bad grind or warped blade you will find that what you learned in the beginning was honing 101.
Restoring razors is not hard. It takes lots of understanding about thickness of scales, why a wedge is wedge shaped and why its exactly a certain amount of wedge. Learning about how to or how much sanding a blade can take, how to repair chips and remove rust. Etc...

Jump in and go for it if you want too. I was sorta like you when i started. I wanted to learn it all at one time. Shaving, honing, restoring, all about brushes and different lathers, why some stones are better in one persons opinion and not in another persons. Etc. I made it thru the learning curve and can do it all now. But i put every minute of my time into it for 2+ years before it all came together.

I will finish saying as others told me when i started. They were right but i wouldnt listen. Learn to shave, strop and make lather first!

 

[bluesman 7]

My first straight shaves were on razors that I honed myself. Not the easiest way to do it, but I've never shaved with anything but a straight since then. A few weeks in I bought a shave ready razor so that I could compare my edges to it. Turned out that I was doing pretty well.

 

[Tanuki]

I am only starting down the honing/restoration path, so I can’t give advice there, but...

With all those DE blades in stock you should read up on the Focus R28 shavette. The Superior Shave website raves about them at length. I haven’t quite pulled the trigger, but I do like to try everything.

 

[Bob1955]

The Dovo shavette takes half de and also takes the longer blade, the shavette and the sr are very much apart, they look similar (as intended) but shave very differently.
The old beat up blades are ok mostly to practice on, I have quite a few, and nearly all shave well, go for well known oldies like ERN, Crown and Sword, Kropp or similar, there are some duds too tho, look for excessive hone wear, as you get better you will want nicer blades too. Shavette helps with holding a sr, getting the feel kinda, then try a sr, only shave your cheeks do not get cocky or much red fluid will run.
Most importantly...take your time, I was taking a hour to shave at the start...tho a lot of that was/is prep... lack of good Prep will kill your shave stone dead.... Good soap, good brush...good lather technique...pre shave like prorasso is for me quite good....but i have to say that coz iv got a 300g tin to use. Never tried oils, but some ppl like em...plenty hot hot water...and if you can get a face flannel (4 for £1) and soak in hot water then apply on top of any pre shave stuff and hold for as long as you can...repeat until you think it is enough...i do 3 or 4 times and i show my stubble the razor and they just jump off my face with fear...

 

[duke762]

How did you manage to learn before shaving with a SR? And how did you hone your skills (no pun intended)?

I think I learn best by mistakes. I've found real gems of knowledge just reading posts here and anytime I asked a question, I've always gotten respectful, helpful answers. A number of eureka moments over the past 4 or 5 years.

I've always loved to hone or sharpen anything I can get my hands on. I had never honed a razor or even considered shaving with one before coming here. I just started reading posts about hones (crazy about natural stones, Arkansas in particular) from around the world. I didn't have a mentor or anyone to judge my progress but me and my face.

I think it was Gamma that said in one of his posts, " If you want to become proficient at honing, you hone til it hurts and then you hone some more". I love to hone. All has worked out well. I truly wish I had started straight shaving a long time ago.

There are 2 kinds of straight razor guys, honers and shavers. This boils down to the folks that want the end result and the folks that enjoy the journey to the end result. I'm a honer. Give me a straight, an Arkansas stone, an adult beverage and a playlist and I'm in Duke heaven.

My earlier fears of shaving were totally unfounded. My cuts have been minimal and not nearly what I had feared. They were all my fault. I still have my ears and haven't been to the emergency room as expected. Incredibly amazed at how skin friendly a properly honed Arkansas edge is. My earliest attempt was just one shaky pass down my cheek. With the grain holding the razor at about 35 degrees. It went this way for a long time. Eventually my edges got better and I went to 2 cheeks with the grain. I always finished with my electric when I lost confidence or sharpness. Went a long time before my edges could tackle my problem areas. Always was amazed at the closeness an comfort a straight could provide.

I've pretty much tried to do every thing on the cheap......other than hone acquisition disorder. Old used stones, old razors, and old used strops. Films are the most economical route, naturals are for honers and heirlooms for the grand kids, synthetics for the shavers that want a straight forward approach.

If I only had a half dozen whiskers, I'd shave them with a straight, knowing what I know now.

You really cannot learn or progress without at least trying the edges.This has been a really good thing for me.

 

[alx gilmore]

LipZ

I advise that you begin with a butter knife or a pencil. Not to actually shave but to go through the motions and you can even use shaving cream. It can't hurt. Do it every time before you shave with your DE. and you will be surprised at how quickly you can develop muscle memory.

Also I encourage everyone who is just starting out to "allow yourself to teach youself" to shave with both hands. Its easy if you practice.
Shave the right side of your face, the cheek and jaw with your right hand, and the whole left side of your face with your left hand.
For your mustache shave the left upper lip with your right hand, and your right upper lip with the left hand.
This way you are always looking straight into the mirror instead of over your shoulder or around or under your arm or out of the corner of your mouth.

If you buy a straight razor I will hone if for free if you pay the shipping. It only take me 10 minutes or less.
Treat yourself, buy a new better brand like a Henckels, you will not be sorry you did. Buying used razors can be tricky. Some fellows sell their old razors because that don't use them anymore, and that might be fine. But there are a whole host of old used straight razors out there that look new, but really are just polished shiny. They may look fine but there is a chance that they were rusted and then just polished. The pitting from rust does ruin the metal structure of the razor below the surface. I call it rotten steel and other do too. So be nice and treat yourself to a razor that you can really be proud of, and it might shave better because of that.

best to you,
peace,
Alex

 

[LipZ]

Wow! Lots of awesome comments!

First of all, Shavetes are not as forgiving as a real straight. As far as honing before using a straight, its next to impossible. You will never know if your edge is shave ready until you know what one feels like. You may be able to make a razor sharp, but shave ready takes time. Films i know nothing about but i will say it took me over 2 years before i learned to properly hone. Some say its easy to learn. But when you get a razor with a bad grind or warped blade you will find that what you learned in the beginning was honing 101.
Restoring razors is not hard. It takes lots of understanding about thickness of scales, why a wedge is wedge shaped and why its exactly a certain amount of wedge. Learning about how to or how much sanding a blade can take, how to repair chips and remove rust. Etc...

Jump in and go for it if you want too. I was sorta like you when i started. I wanted to learn it all at one time. Shaving, honing, restoring, all about brushes and different lathers, why some stones are better in one persons opinion and not in another persons. Etc. I made it thru the learning curve and can do it all now. But i put every minute of my time into it for 2+ years before it all came together.

I will finish saying as others told me when i started. They were right but i wouldnt listen. Learn to shave, strop and make lather first!

Very sound words, HazMat.

I tried not to seem like someone who wants all now.

What has been attracting me is about restoring antique pieces. In my head, it made sense to follow an order of restoring cosmetics, followed by making a bevel, to sanding, to finishing. And that’s it. That’s why, to me, it seemed like learning to shave, than to strop, than to finish hone was a “backwards” system.

I’m putting it all in the past tense, because what you said makes much sense. Even if I’m not shaving with a SR in every opportunity, it’s good to know how it is in order to know where I want/need to aim.

Also, I have to consider the how much I’d spend. Razors and equipment aren’t cheap. Since I don’t live in the US, we still have currency conversion, shipping, taxes. It all gets a lot more expensive that actually is.

I still would like to learn how to use a Shavette for a lot of reasons. I have lots of blades, they are easy and practical, and give good shaves. Will I adapt or even learn? I’ll never know if I don’t try. Actually, it’s the same with SR.

Your advice is well taken. I’ll take my time and plan another approach. I’m looking for a shave ready used SR, and I’ll start “from the end”.

Lathering is checked from the list. Stropping and shaving with a SR are next.

My first straight shaves were on razors that I honed myself. Not the easiest way to do it, but I've never shaved with anything but a straight since then. A few weeks in I bought a shave ready razor so that I could compare my edges to it. Turned out that I was doing pretty well.

That’s nice to hear!

It’s awesome to do something on your own and then realize you’ve been doing it well.

How have you learned? What material/razor have you used?

I am only starting down the honing/restoration path, so I can’t give advice there, but...

With all those DE blades in stock you should read up on the Focus R28 shavette. The Superior Shave website raves about them at length. I haven’t quite pulled the trigger, but I do like to try everything.

Thanks! I’ve been looking at the Focus. Looks super nice!

The Dovo shavette takes half de and also takes the longer blade, the shavette and the sr are very much apart, they look similar (as intended) but shave very differently.
The old beat up blades are ok mostly to practice on, I have quite a few, and nearly all shave well, go for well known oldies like ERN, Crown and Sword, Kropp or similar, there are some duds too tho, look for excessive hone wear, as you get better you will want nicer blades too. Shavette helps with holding a sr, getting the feel kinda, then try a sr, only shave your cheeks do not get cocky or much red fluid will run.
Most importantly...take your time, I was taking a hour to shave at the start...tho a lot of that was/is prep... lack of good Prep will kill your shave stone dead.... Good soap, good brush...good lather technique...pre shave like prorasso is for me quite good....but i have to say that coz iv got a 300g tin to use. Never tried oils, but some ppl like em...plenty hot hot water...and if you can get a face flannel (4 for £1) and soak in hot water then apply on top of any pre shave stuff and hold for as long as you can...repeat until you think it is enough...i do 3 or 4 times and i show my stubble the razor and they just jump off my face with fear...

Dove makes some awesome pre shave oil. Unfortunately they don’t bring it to Brazil anymore since 2018. IMO, it’s better that Proraso pre, which I use nowadays.

I think that anything I put near my face to shave must be treated with upmost respect. As you said, everything I get too cocky, my shaving experiences are below par.

I’ll start with babysteps, only cheeks first, and advancing slowly.

I think I may get a SR and Shavette at the same time... so it’s gonna be some time of experimenting and fun (hopefully without much red fluid)

I think I learn best by mistakes. I've found real gems of knowledge just reading posts here and anytime I asked a question, I've always gotten respectful, helpful answers. A number of eureka moments over the past 4 or 5 years.

I've always loved to hone or sharpen anything I can get my hands on. I had never honed a razor or even considered shaving with one before coming here. I just started reading posts about hones (crazy about natural stones, Arkansas in particular) from around the world. I didn't have a mentor or anyone to judge my progress but me and my face.

I think it was Gamma that said in one of his posts, " If you want to become proficient at honing, you hone til it hurts and then you hone some more". I love to hone. All has worked out well. I truly wish I had started straight shaving a long time ago.

There are 2 kinds of straight razor guys, honers and shavers. This boils down to the folks that want the end result and the folks that enjoy the journey to the end result. I'm a honer. Give me a straight, an Arkansas stone, an adult beverage and a playlist and I'm in Duke heaven.

My earlier fears of shaving were totally unfounded. My cuts have been minimal and not nearly what I had feared. They were all my fault. I still have my ears and haven't been to the emergency room as expected. Incredibly amazed at how skin friendly a properly honed Arkansas edge is. My earliest attempt was just one shaky pass down my cheek. With the grain holding the razor at about 35 degrees. It went this way for a long time. Eventually my edges got better and I went to 2 cheeks with the grain. I always finished with my electric when I lost confidence or sharpness. Went a long time before my edges could tackle my problem areas. Always was amazed at the closeness an comfort a straight could provide.

I've pretty much tried to do every thing on the cheap......other than hone acquisition disorder. Old used stones, old razors, and old used strops. Films are the most economical route, naturals are for honers and heirlooms for the grand kids, synthetics for the shavers that want a straight forward approach.

If I only had a half dozen whiskers, I'd shave them with a straight, knowing what I know now.

You really cannot learn or progress without at least trying the edges.This has been a really good thing for me.

I think I’m the kind of guy that learn better by mistakes as well.

I don’t post a lot, honestly, because I know that I’m not of much help. People here are so knowledgeable, and are always helping each other. This is what makes this a great community. I’m sure if I started honing today I’d commit hundreds mistakes, but I’d also be able to avoid some as I could remember some dos and d’onts from posts, and videos from fellow members.

The advice you mentioned about honing and honing more and more remembered me of something a fellow musician told me years ago. If you wanna perform live, you need to practice. Once you get the song down, you practice more. When it’s perfect, practice more. When you can’t even tolerate it anymore, you’re getting there.

I can’t say if I’m a shaver or a honer. Honestly, today, I can’t say I’m in love with shaving. I really like the process, spending time with myself, but my beard sucks and my skin is so sensitive it bothers me. I’m always happy to see my clean face on the mirror, though. It’s time I enjoy! Maybe SR is here to make things better! Who knows, right??

I like tradition with practicity. I’d start with film because of cost. But just by looking at it, it’s like something is missing. For what people say, naturals are harder and more expensive to get, not to mention their grit is not precise. So synthetics look like a great thing to me!

I’m working on getting one or two SR and Shavettes before anything. Looks like it’s the right thing to do!

LipZ

I advise that you begin with a butter knife or a pencil. Not to actually shave but to go through the motions and you can even use shaving cream. It can't hurt. Do it every time before you shave with your DE. and you will be surprised at how quickly you can develop muscle memory.

Also I encourage everyone who is just starting out to "allow yourself to teach youself" to shave with both hands. Its easy if you practice.
Shave the right side of your face, the cheek and jaw with your right hand, and the whole left side of your face with your left hand.
For your mustache shave the left upper lip with your right hand, and your right upper lip with the left hand.
This way you are always looking straight into the mirror instead of over your shoulder or around or under your arm or out of the corner of your mouth.

If you buy a straight razor I will hone if for free if you pay the shipping. It only take me 10 minutes or less.
Treat yourself, buy a new better brand like a Henckels, you will not be sorry you did. Buying used razors can be tricky. Some fellows sell their old razors because that don't use them anymore, and that might be fine. But there are a whole host of old used straight razors out there that look new, but really are just polished shiny. They may look fine but there is a chance that they were rusted and then just polished. The pitting from rust does ruin the metal structure of the razor below the surface. I call it rotten steel and other do too. So be nice and treat yourself to a razor that you can really be proud of, and it might shave better because of that.

best to you,
peace,
Alex

Alex, first of all, thank you so much for the kindness of offering yourself to home my future razor. I’m unsure if logistics would allow it, because I’m in Brazil, but if possible, I’d appreciate it very much!

What gives me the goosebumps about SR shaving is having to learn to shave with my left hand. I couldn’t do anything with my left to save my life. However, muscle memory is really interesting... I can’t do with my right hand what my left does on guitar, for example.

I’ll give it a try on your practice tips. Haven’t thought of that before, but it’s a good way to assess if I’m gonna be noseless or earless in a week or two.

Thank you for the tips!!

And thank you all for the awesome reception and advice. It’s all being well taken and will be considered onto my next steps.

I’m seeing my journey on restoring and honing will be a little slower than I predicted, but I’ll make everything for it to be fun and very enjoyable!

I hope I’ll be able to help or make a few valuable inputs in the future.

All best!

 

[johnb65]

This was my story as well, I wanted to extend my knife sharpening to straight razors. At that point, I didn't even know that anyone used straights. Around 4 years ago or so I bought a Kropp razor from eBay, a nice razor though I didn't know that at the time, and started trying to sharpen it and learn to use it with the stones that I had for knives.
This wasn't a runaway success so I have spent a ridiculous amount of time haunting Youtube and various forums. I am making progress, particularly now that I have a more suitable set of hones. I did buy a new razor after a while that was supposed to be shave ready, to check my progress, and it was not much better than my fumbling efforts. This may say more about the sharpening of that particular vendor rather than the state of my honing. I guess it took me around 18 months or so before I felt confident in either shaving or my efforts at honing and I am sure that it would have been quicker to have learned to shave first and honing later. It feels worthwhile now though and gives me a great deal of satisfaction to shave with an edge that I have honed myself.
I probably have bought rather more hones than I will really need but I do tend to get carried away with enthusiasms.