Should I bother with this gold dollar razor?

[Farmingtaters]

Hi,

I live in Melbourne Australia and about a year ago I tried my luck at restoring a straight razor. I was heavily inspired by this forum and thought that buying and touching up a gold dollar was completely within my level of skill. I bought a bunch of stones from Larry at Whipped Dog and even decided on getting the 12k honing stone. Despite trying my best at going through all the necessary grit levels I was unable to get the razor to shave without dragging heavily. What do you guys think I did wrong? The razor will split my arm hairs like crazy, however it shaves just as well as your standard kitchen knife, Horribly! Should I throw away the gold dollar and see if someone can sell me a shave ready vintage or should I try find someone to sharpen my gold dollar?

 

[ajkel64]

I have no idea. Straights are not my thing. Maybe @Legion might have some better information for you as I believe that he uses Straights and is Melbourne based.

 

[Seveneighth]

I am not sure what you mean by splitting hairs. For a synth progression I prefer the tree top test.

If the razor is shaving but just rough, it could be just your finishing technique and you might find you can refine things with pastes.

You don't say what stones you are using. If it is the naniwa 12k that is a nice finisher, but I would always go higher with the Shaptons.

I find it hard to read a razor from photos. Is that corrosion on the blade face? If it is, make sure it hadn't reached the edge. I have had corrosion on an edge that has behaved like a chip and I have had to hone past it.

Before doing much with your gold dollar, if were you, I would get hold of a vintage razor in good condition with minimal hone wear and start with that. Sheffield razors are good because the steel is easy to hone. Vintage razors tend to have a more consistent grind on them meaning that you don't encounter some of the more challenging honing issues you find with Chinese razors. That will level set your honing approach and give you a reference point when you go back to the GD.

Regarding your Gold Dollar, here are some typical problems with Chinese razors:

1. Poor geometry. The easiest way to check this is by running a sharpie down the bevel on each side, and then honing some light x strokes. You will be able to see where the bevel isn't making contact with the stone because the sharpie is left. I believe many guys modify their GDs. Personally I like to hone it out, either with an extreme rolling x stroke or with a convex stone.
If you follow The Method you should be able to hone the hell out of the razor on a lowish grit and sort it out that way.

Of you are not creating a consistent bevel then the razor will not shave or shave well. Hard to tell from your photo, but your bevel doesn't look consistent.

2. Inconsistent tempering. Recently I have had razors that have chipped because they were over hard and one that raised a fin because it was too soft.
It is worth inspecting your edges with a cheap loupe to look for either. For chips using a synthetic progression I now raise a slurry on each stone at the start of working on it.
For a fin edge I believe The Method also has an answer to this. Because you deliberately raise a burr and then remove it with draw strokes, chances are you will avoid this problem.

In short, I would go through the Newbie Honing compendium and try following The Method.

The wise honers buy their GDs in batches and sort out the good ones to hone.

 

[Farmingtaters]

Thanks Seveneighth, I really appreciate you spending so much time on your response. I’ve read and followed quite a few different instructional PDF and still can’t seem to make much headway in my quality of shave. I’m definitely doing something because the razor is sharp enough to pop hairs off of my arm, however I just can’t get it sharp enough to shave my face comfortably. I purchased the norton set of stones using the Chinese 12k as my finishing hone. The rusting has nothing to do with the sharpness of the blade, as I had the same issue when the razor was brand new. It’s quite possible that the geometry is off and that I’m not sharpening the whole edge, however do you think that it could also be my stones?

 

[Farmingtaters]

I am not sure what you mean by splitting hairs. For a synth progression I prefer the tree top test.

If the razor is shaving but just rough, it could be just your finishing technique and you might find you can refine things with pastes.

You don't say what stones you are using. If it is the naniwa 12k that is a nice finisher, but I would always go higher with the Shaptons.

I find it hard to read a razor from photos. Is that corrosion on the blade face? If it is, make sure it hadn't reached the edge. I have had corrosion on an edge that has behaved like a chip and I have had to hone past it.

Before doing much with your gold dollar, if were you, I would get hold of a vintage razor in good condition with minimal hone wear and start with that. Sheffield razors are good because the steel is easy to hone. Vintage razors tend to have a more consistent grind on them meaning that you don't encounter some of the more challenging honing issues you find with Chinese razors. That will level set your honing approach and give you a reference point when you go back to the GD.

Regarding your Gold Dollar, here are some typical problems with Chinese razors:

1. Poor geometry. The easiest way to check this is by running a sharpie down the bevel on each side, and then honing some light x strokes. You will be able to see where the bevel isn't making contact with the stone because the sharpie is left. I believe many guys modify their GDs. Personally I like to hone it out, either with an extreme rolling x stroke or with a convex stone.
If you follow The Method you should be able to hone the hell out of the razor on a lowish grit and sort it out that way.

Of you are not creating a consistent bevel then the razor will not shave or shave well. Hard to tell from your photo, but your bevel doesn't look consistent.

2. Inconsistent tempering. Recently I have had razors that have chipped because they were over hard and one that raised a fin because it was too soft.
It is worth inspecting your edges with a cheap loupe to look for either. For chips using a synthetic progression I now raise a slurry on each stone at the start of working on it.
For a fin edge I believe The Method also has an answer to this. Because you deliberately raise a burr and then remove it with draw strokes, chances are you will avoid this problem.

In short, I would go through the Newbie Honing compendium and try following The Method.

The wise honers buy their GDs in batches and sort out the good ones to hone.

Thanks Seveneighth, I really appreciate you spending so much time on your response. I’ve read and followed quite a few different instructional PDF and still can’t seem to make much headway in my quality of shave. I’m definitely doing something because the razor is sharp enough to pop hairs off of my arm, however I just can’t get it sharp enough to shave my face comfortably. I purchased the norton set of stones using the Chinese 12k as my finishing hone. The rusting has nothing to do with the sharpness of the blade, as I had the same issue when the razor was brand new. It’s quite possible that the geometry is off and that I’m not sharpening the whole edge, however do you think that it could also be my stones?

 

[Seveneighth]

I have not used the Nortons but they were a mainstay of razor honing and there are a lot of threads here and other places about using them.

Is the 12K a synthetic or a natural? The Chinese naturals are quite variable in my experience. I had one and found that lapping on a fine grit helped, but never really liked it as a stone. I have had underwhelming results with Chinese synthetics.

I made tons and tons of mistakes when I started out, misunderstanding the grit equivalents, not flattening my stones well enough, using a flattening stone that dished, not getting my x strokes even, etc. etc. What helped me was creating a post on a forum, checking each step I took by posting on the thread and some experienced honers talking me through what I did wrong at each stage.

What I am saying is the Nortons are probably fine, as long as you are flattening and using them as per instructions on the old Norton threads. The Chinese I can't necessarily attest to based on my experiences.

You can remove these variables whilst starting out by using lapping films.

Instructions are hard to follow - there are some good instruction videos on You Tube. The best resource on the forums is the Newbie Honing compendium sticky at the top of the Hones and Honing sub forum which covers the use of lapping films and pasted balsa. Whilst I don't personally agree with all of the methods, they do work and they avoid some of the problems.

Films are an inexpensive way to start and take away a number of the variables with stones. The hardest thing is getting equivalent supplies outside the US. You should be able to get the films and balsa without problem. You will have to look around for acrylic or use glass as a backing. Diamond pastes can also be tricky to source. Start with films, and get that working. Then switch films for the equivalent stones. It is a more assured stepped learning process. You can be certain that your finishing hone (using a film) is reliable.

I am sure that someone who is using Nortons will be along to give you more relevant advice about your particular set up.

 

[Legion]

Ok...

There are possibly a few issues here.

when you say you have Norton hones, what is the lowest grit? Gold Dollars usually need to be bashed into shape. You need to start with a lowish grit, or spend a lot of time. My first impression is that you might not have set the bevel correctly, making all further efforts a waste of time.

secondly, have you a razor that has been honed properly, to give you a benchmark to work towards? Without that you are kind of flying blind.

I have owned and used a number of Chinese razors, and after work they have shaved fine. But I would never advise them as a first razor, or a beginner project. They are too unpredictable.

IMO your first razor should be a quality (usually vintage) blade, honed by someone with experience. Then start buying your own and experiment.

You also mentioned that you bought hones from Whipped Dog. I might be wrong, but my memory is of him cutting hones into smaller hones to reduce the cost to the buyer. That’s great, but less surface area equals more laps. Something to factor in.

 

[Seveneighth]

Wake me up when Laphroaig releases an aftershave.

The best signature I've seen!!!

 

[Acmemfg]

@Farmingtaters
Like Legion advised. GD razors often need to be beaten into submission. A DMT coarse to medium progression can prove effective before moving to a 1k stone.
This Gold Dollar 1996 has been severely dragged across the stones. It shaves, but not well. Very rough. Note how much steel has been removed from the spine. That's how wonky it was.
It will receive more attention when the mood strikes me, but usually I work on it for a while using coarse-ish stones until I tire of the process. Then the razor takes a Harold Holt until the next time.
Patience...it's a virtue

 

[ajduplessis]

Leave the GD for the pro’s, they require attention to detail to get right and that only comes with experience. That said I would rather destroy a GD while learning than destroying a vintage.

 

[Slash McCoy]

That razor will hone up just fine. You just did something wrong is all.

If you are capable of NO MATTER WHAT, precisely following a set of instructions, the Newbie Honing Compendium will get your GD sorted out. You need to read it and all the threads linked therein from beginning to end. This is important. Much has changed since the earliest posts of what we now call The Method. Some things changed as group consensus changed due to experimentation and discovery of new techniques and materials. If you are not willing to blindly follow instructions, then The Method probably won't be of much help at this point.

Normally, one learns to shave with al already shave ready razor, before thinking about trying to hone a razor. There are SO many variables that you really need to follow a narrow path of eliminating as many wild cards as possible. The Method is really the only way you have a realistic chance of successfully honing your razor to where it is both crazy sharp and also comfortable to shave with. Any other way, without having a baseline to compare the edge to, will give you pretty sad results out the gate, and maybe give you better results down the road but only after a good bit of confusion and uncertainty, lots of work and suffering through a lot of excruciating shaves.

The Method is not the only way to hone. But it is the one way that has a decent chance of giving you a great edge right out the gate, and also rather inexpensively.

The Method works not by teaching you to hone, but by making you hone. It is like a paint by the numbers picture doesn't make an artist out of you. It just makes you paint a picture. If you use the wrong colors or paint outside the lines, chances are it won't come out as expected. Same with The Method. You won't be an artist but you will have the picture, anyway. You will eventually learn, both from doing and from reading here, but it won't happen immediately.

 

[Farmingtaters]

That razor will hone up just fine. You just did something wrong is all.

If you are capable of NO MATTER WHAT, precisely following a set of instructions, the Newbie Honing Compendium will get your GD sorted out. You need to read it and all the threads linked therein from beginning to end. This is important. Much has changed since the earliest posts of what we now call The Method. Some things changed as group consensus changed due to experimentation and discovery of new techniques and materials. If you are not willing to blindly follow instructions, then The Method probably won't be of much help at this point.

Normally, one learns to shave with al already shave ready razor, before thinking about trying to hone a razor. There are SO many variables that you really need to follow a narrow path of eliminating as many wild cards as possible. The Method is really the only way you have a realistic chance of successfully honing your razor to where it is both crazy sharp and also comfortable to shave with. Any other way, without having a baseline to compare the edge to, will give you pretty sad results out the gate, and maybe give you better results down the road but only after a good bit of confusion and uncertainty, lots of work and suffering through a lot of excruciating shaves.

The Method is not the only way to hone. But it is the one way that has a decent chance of giving you a great edge right out the gate, and also rather inexpensively.

The Method works not by teaching you to hone, but by making you hone. It is like a paint by the numbers picture doesn't make an artist out of you. It just makes you paint a picture. If you use the wrong colors or paint outside the lines, chances are it won't come out as expected. Same with The Method. You won't be an artist but you will have the picture, anyway. You will eventually learn, both from doing and from reading here, but it won't happen immediately.

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate your opinion. I’m definitely happy to give the razor another go at honing, however I do have some questions on whether I’ve got a high enough grit hone, as well as knowing what I’ve done wrong if what I’m working with is good enough. What do you think? Also, does anyone know someone that could sell me a vintage shave ready razor that can give me a base level of what to expect.

 

[Farmingtaters]

The

Ok...

There are possibly a few issues here.

when you say you have Norton hones, what is the lowest grit? Gold Dollars usually need to be bashed into shape. You need to start with a lowish grit, or spend a lot of time. My first impression is that you might not have set the bevel correctly, making all further efforts a waste of time.

secondly, have you a razor that has been honed properly, to give you a benchmark to work towards? Without that you are kind of flying blind.

I have owned and used a number of Chinese razors, and after work they have shaved fine. But I would never advise them as a first razor, or a beginner project. They are too unpredictable.

IMO your first razor should be a quality (usually vintage) blade, honed by someone with experience. Then start buying your own and experiment.

You also mentioned that you bought hones from Whipped Dog. I might be wrong, but my memory is of him cutting hones into smaller hones to reduce the cost to the buyer. That’s great, but less surface area equals more laps. Something to factor in.

The norton hones go from 220/1000 4000/8000 12000(Chinese from woodcraft). What do you think the issue with my GD is? I’m sure my technique leaves a lot to be desired however, I’m not sure where I’ve wrong which is probably the toughest part on my honing journey. Do you have any advice? Also, where do you think I can source a shave ready vintage razor in Victoria, Australia?

 

[Legion]

The

The norton hones go from 220/1000 4000/8000 12000(Chinese from woodcraft). What do you think the issue with my GD is? I’m sure my technique leaves a lot to be desired however, I’m not sure where I’ve wrong which is probably the toughest part on my honing journey. Do you have any advice? Also, where do you think I can source a shave ready vintage razor in Victoria, Australia?

What part of Melbourne are you in? There are no shops that I would trust to sell a "shave ready" razor. Despite what they will tell you, even an expensive commercially made razor will usually want the factory edge improved somewhat.

If you need to have it posted from one side of Melbourne to the other, it will not cost much more to have it posted from elsewhere in Oz. Maybe put out a WTB ad in the buy-sell-trade section?

Or if you find something in an antique shop you could also get it cleaned and honed, but that would likely cost more in the long run. If you find something and want to send me a pick before you plonk down the dough, feel free to PM me.

 

[Farmingtaters]

What part of Melbourne are you in? There are no shops that I would trust to sell a "shave ready" razor. Despite what they will tell you, even an expensive commercially made razor will usually want the factory edge improved somewhat.

If you need to have it posted from one side of Melbourne to the other, it will not cost much more to have it posted from elsewhere in Oz. Maybe put out a WTB ad in the buy-sell-trade section?

Or if you find something in an antique shop you could also get it cleaned and honed, but that would likely cost more in the long run. If you find something and want to send me a pick before you plonk down the dough, feel free to PM me.

Thanks Legion, I appreciate the advice. I’ve also been looking at etsy and there are a lot of people selling shave ready razors there, one guy is even selling shave ready gold dollar razors. Are these worth looking into?

 

[Legion]

Thanks Legion, I appreciate the advice. I’ve also been looking at etsy and there are a lot of people selling shave ready razors there, one guy is even selling shave ready gold dollar razors. Are these worth looking into?

Impossible to know without knowing the seller. FWIW, I have never bought a razor off ebay that said it was shave ready that really was. I think most sellers use the term without really knowing what it means, just adding it to the listing to improve the search hits. I don't know if Etsy is any different.

I think you are safer buying via some forum like this. At least you can be fairly sure that the seller might actually use straights.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thanks Legion, I appreciate the advice. I’ve also been looking at etsy and there are a lot of people selling shave ready razors there, one guy is even selling shave ready gold dollar razors. Are these worth looking into?

Legion said it. Many talk the talk. Few can walk the walk. Etsy is the last place I would look for a straight razor. Fleabay is a little better. Currently I can think of two sellers there who actually sell shave ready razors on ebay: life2short1971 and april7th1989.

Any online seller who is actually part of the straight shaving community and is trying to sell razors will have several for sale and will probably have sold quite a lot of them, and if his shave ready razors are truly shave ready then his ratings will be pretty good. Don't buy from someone who might just be a storage unit or estate sale picker. Don't buy from anyone who does not actually shave with a straight razor.

 

[Mouette]

Thanks Legion, I appreciate the advice. I’ve also been looking at etsy and there are a lot of people selling shave ready razors there, one guy is even selling shave ready gold dollar razors. Are these worth looking into?

My first shave with my Bengal Imperial that I had sent away to be honed wasn't a success. I still don't know if I rolled the edge or it wasn't "shave ready" when it came back. What to do? I am not going to play around with the Bengal in case I bugger it up as it was my Grandad's razor. I looked at the "shave ready" Gold Dollars on Fleabay also and ended up buying one from the UK. The credentials looked good - they had a FB page where he made and restored razors. It didn't really pass the tree top test as I could feel it dragging heavily on my arm hairs. I lathered up and had a go anyway, only to find it dragged like crazy and ended up doing both cheeks then finishing off with a DE. No blood and at least I know the feeling of a blunt razor - I am learning.

Even though the Gold Dollar wasn't shave ready, I am wondering if it is still capable of being honed into a shave ready condition. It's worth playing around with and if I bugger it up, it will only cost me $25 bucks.

It's a conundrum for sure - the recommendation is that you buy a shave ready razor, either new or vintage. But where the hell do I get one from? It seems that I can't get a razor successfully honed in Australia. I live in Sydney, a city with 5 million people and no one that can hone a razor. I had the Bengal sent interstate but that didn't seem to work either. It's the old adage, if you want something done properly, you have to do it yourself it seems. Over the past few weeks, I have bought myself a Norton 4000/8000 stone and a Shapton 12000 plus a cheap loupe. I will play around with these for a bit and see what happens.

I will also follow Slash's advice and read the Honing Compendium before I dunk my stones in the water. I really want to get into straight razor shaving, but it seems I have to learn how to hone first. I don't really want to have to do this, but it seems there is no other option. If I lived in the US or UK, there might be other options.

cheers

 

[Ice-Man]

One thing I found with the Gold Dollars is the spine is way too thick, it needs thinning down some to get that sweet spot. But once there they are fantastic shavers for sure, And as Slash McCoy said if you follow the Newbie Honing Compendium. That razor will have a fantastic edge that will top hairs.

 

[rbscebu]

Because of my location (Philippines), I had to start my SR journey like Slash did. Got a non-shaveable razor and had to teach myself how to get it into a shaveable condition. Fortunately I discovered B&B and the Method in time to reduce my learning curve.

Even with Slash's guidance, it took me a few months and about 5 edges before I experienced a truly shave-ready SR shave. Once I did, I was hooked on SR shaving.