Shopping for a new espresso machine

[RobAtSGH]

Back in 2003-ish, I bought a used Solis SL-90 for about $300. It did hearty service on my kitchen counter for about a decade before the pump seal started leaking. So, it has now gone to that great Appliance Graveyard in the Sky.

While I'd love a Rancilio Silvia, I can't justify its price tag these days. When it was a $500-ish machine, I'd have considered it, but not at approaching $650. So, I've been looking at the Gaggia Classic and Baby Twin. That range's about where I think I wanna set the budget cutoff.

Anyone have experience with either of these machines? I'm kinda leaning toward the Baby Twin, but could be convinced otherwise.

Edit: I have a doserless Rocky, and I'm not a superauto, pod, or pressurized filter basket kinda guy.

 

[mattdenicola]

My first espresso machine was the old Star Wars Gaggia Espresso. I also used a Gaggia Classic for a good 6 months, and had some experience on a friend's New Baby. There are differences in the machines, but I always felt that the quality of the espresso was equal from all of them. The milk frothing is a different story.

I never used a Baby Twin, but I always felt that for a pretty marginal amount of money, getting the dedicated thermoblock and upgraded brew group is easily worth it. I can't speak to how well the machine actually works, but it seems like a no-brainer to go for the Baby Twin if your two options are Baby Twin vs. Classic.

 

[RobAtSGH]

There seems to be little in the mid-range market for semi-auto machines. Everything seems to be either $200 or so and targeted at pod users, or well over $500. The Silvia's jumped from the reasonable mid-range to a near-prosumer machine in price. If anyone's got other recommendations for a machine with a full-size portafilter, semi-auto controls, and non-pressurized filter baskets, I'm all ears!

 

[mattdenicola]

I'm with you ... the Silvia was a no-brainer when you could buy a lightly used one with a PID for $400. But those days are long gone. I did the same research 5 years ago or so, and came up with the same answer. There may be a new game-changer machine at $400, but if there is I don't know about it. Maybe someone else here does.

As a guy who suffers from pretty severe upgrade-iris, if I was able to go back in time and advise my past-self prior to purchasing any espresso machine, I would just tell myself to just find the cash and go straight to a HX semi-auto like a QuickMill or something. But, there is something to be said for "climbing the ladder", as I probably wouldn't appreciate the machine I have now if I hadn't learned the pros and cons of my Gaggias or my Silvia.

I will say this: the Silvia is just a better machine, and once you learn how to use it and get a PID installed, it can be your last espresso machine and leave you perfectly happy. BUT, the Silvia has major flaws if you are a milk-frother, and if that is an important part of your routine, the Silvia will just leave you frustrated. You would absolutely be better off with the Gaggia Twin.

The Gaggias are really solid machines. I made great espressos with them - albeit a bit inconsistently. Of course, once you learn the nuances of your particular machine, you will be fine. Could you get more control over the process with a more expensive machine? Yes. Do you care about that? Up to you.

 

[EricBNC]

Before buying the twin check out reviews carefully - for some reason it doesn't get a lot of love over on the Yahoo users group for Gaggia machines. I have used the Classic with the OPV properly adjusted and it can make decent espresso - not sure about the Baby group head being an upgrade either, but I have never used a Baby Twin.

 

[mattdenicola]

Before buying the twin check out reviews carefully - for some reason it doesn't get a lot of love over on the Yahoo users group for Gaggia machines. I have used the Classic with the OPV properly adjusted and it can make decent espresso - not sure about the Baby group head being an upgrade either, but I have never used a Baby Twin.

A very fair point to make, Eric. Gaggia has always had a bad rap in the longevity and reliability department. That isn't to say all their machines break, but you hear about a lot more broken Gaggias than other machines. Surely part of this is that a) they sell a lot more machines, b) they generally market toward "entry level" home baristas who may not maintain their machines very well, and c) they just can't put in commercial quality parts into their machines and sell them for what they do. I never had any problems with my Gaggias. I don't mean that to discount problems others have had - I believe those problems are very real, but my two machines always made good espresso. I wouldn't put too much stock into bad customer reviews alone, except that Gaggia also has a reputation for horrible customer service.

The problem that the OP is having, as I think a lot of people have buying a machine of this price, is there just aren't many other options. If there is a reliable, semi-auto, full-size PF machine with prosumer caliber production and a history of reliability for $400, I also would love to know about it! If this is a "stepping stone" machine, no problem. Of course, if this is meant to be your last espresso machine for the next decade, chipping in the extra $30-50/year equivalent will get you into a more reliable machine with higher quality innards. But I think the OP has done the math and has his budget ... I just don't know a better machine for the money.

And I am fairly sure the Baby Twin has the upgraded chromed brass brew-group. The Classic has it too, I think.

 

[Lather]

I had a Baby Gaggia and MDF grinder for 15 years. I used it every day and that is probaby why it lasted so long. No problems except a broken portafilter handle. I just cleaned it and replaced the gasket regularly and that's about it.
I sold it on Kijiji when I upgraded.

 

[EricBNC]

A very fair point to make, Eric. Gaggia has always had a bad rap in the longevity and reliability department. That isn't to say all their machines break, but you hear about a lot more broken Gaggias than other machines. Surely part of this is that a) they sell a lot more machines, b) they generally market toward "entry level" home baristas who may not maintain their machines very well, and c) they just can't put in commercial quality parts into their machines and sell them for what they do. I never had any problems with my Gaggias. I don't mean that to discount problems others have had - I believe those problems are very real, but my two machines always made good espresso. I wouldn't put too much stock into bad customer reviews alone, except that Gaggia also has a reputation for horrible customer service.

The problem that the OP is having, as I think a lot of people have buying a machine of this price, is there just aren't many other options. If there is a reliable, semi-auto, full-size PF machine with prosumer caliber production and a history of reliability for $400, I also would love to know about it! If this is a "stepping stone" machine, no problem. Of course, if this is meant to be your last espresso machine for the next decade, chipping in the extra $30-50/year equivalent will get you into a more reliable machine with higher quality innards. But I think the OP has done the math and has his budget ... I just don't know a better machine for the money.

And I am fairly sure the Baby Twin has the upgraded chromed brass brew-group. The Classic has it too, I think.

I think we agree on Gaggia - I have a working Gaggia Coffee (looks like the Classic but doesn't have the 3-way solenoid and adjustable OPV). I guess I could have been clearer about the twin - those guys on the Yahoo users group are devoted fans of the brand, but that particular model (the Twin) doesn't get the same love.

 

[RondeB]

I have a gaggia baby class. I like it. If you are working with milk you will have to do something with the steam arm. Either switch it to a Sylvia or buy the latte art wand and take the outside off which turns it into a single end hole. I chose the latter. My latte art isn't great but I get reasonable microfoam.

I would suggest the bay. I found mine new on a buy it now/obo for ~ $350. No real support but I don't have anyone local to use for repair. It does have a chrome plated brass 58mm Pf.

 

[RobAtSGH]

Thanks for the input, gents. I'm re-assessing my spend - I may just tough it out with no machine for a while, and put the extra $200 toward the Rancilio. It's liable to last 'nother 10 years for me, so $65 annual "cost" is less than what I'd pay in coffee beans every year. It's not that I can't afford to spend the money, it's just mentally I have a hard time justifying spending the cash for essentially a luxury item for the household that really only I benefit from (the wife's not a coffee drinker). Then again, maybe I'll eBay a couple of high end briar pipes I hardly use to offset the cost.

The alternative is to find someone who wants to sell a used v2 in reasonable condition for a good price.

 

[mattdenicola]

Thanks for the input, gents. I'm re-assessing my spend - I may just tough it out with no machine for a while, and put the extra $200 toward the Rancilio. It's liable to last 'nother 10 years for me, so $65 annual "cost" is less than what I'd pay in coffee beans every year. It's not that I can't afford to spend the money, it's just mentally I have a hard time justifying spending the cash for essentially a luxury item for the household that really only I benefit from (the wife's not a coffee drinker). Then again, maybe I'll eBay a couple of high end briar pipes I hardly use to offset the cost.

The alternative is to find someone who wants to sell a used v2 in reasonable condition for a good price.

You'll be very happy you made this choice. The Silvia is a decidedly higher quality machine that looks, feels, and operates a full step above those Gaggias. As I said, it isn't the "top of the ladder", but it can absolutely be your last espresso machine you buy and make you very happy. I still have my V1 Silvia that I had someone PID, and it was worth every penny.

 

[Dusty1]

After reading the reviews for the machines in the $4-600 range, I could not justify the sale, so I ended up with a stainless moka pot. Should be around for the rest of my life. Good luck with the purchase.

 

[Omicron_12]

I just upgraded to a Rancilio Silvia from a Breville 830XL and the difference is huge. More crema, no bitterness and faster steaming. Wish I'd just bought the Silvia to begin with.

 

[RobAtSGH]

Well, a couple of things resolved this question for me.

First, the Baby and Baby Twin are too tall to fit under my 1940's built-in cabinets by about an inch due to the steaming knob on top.

Second, I found an Amazon seller with a sterling reputation who was selling Silvia buyers-remorse returns for about $100 off retail. So, I grabbed one of those.

I figure i can temp surf Silvia for a month or two before I plop down $200 for a brew/steam dual-SSR PID kit.

Thanks for the input, gents. The new toy should be arriving tomorrow.

 

[jazzguy]

I've owned more than one Gaggia. My Silvia is still brewing away after 7 years. Enjoy!

 

[RobAtSGH]

Miss Silvia sporting her Rattleware tamper accessory, nestled up next to Rocky, ready to caffeinate!

 

[jzuzphreek]

Very nice initial setup! Not upgrade proof, but you'll be making terrific espresso for quite a while with it!

 

[takeshi]

There seems to be little in the mid-range market for semi-auto machines. Everything seems to be either $200 or so and targeted at pod users, or well over $500.

I'd call all that entry level but you're right -- there's not a whole lot in between the prices you mention.

Edit: I have a doserless Rocky

I'm sure you're not ready for the expense but a better grinder will make a significant improvement. At least, it did for me (still using the Silvia).

I will say this: the Silvia is just a better machine, and once you learn how to use it and get a PID installed, it can be your last espresso machine and leave you perfectly happy.

It can be but rarely seems to be the case. I'm certainly in the market to upgrade from mine but, as you pointed out, I am a milk frother.

I've owned more than one Gaggia. My Silvia is still brewing away after 7 years.

Working on year 12 with mine.

 

[RobAtSGH]

I'd call all that entry level but you're right -- there's not a whole lot in between the prices you mention.

You're probably right in that my first purchases were made over a decade ago, and even the most recent machine was bought used. My idea of pricing hasn't kept pace with the market.

I'm sure you're not ready for the expense but a better grinder will make a significant improvement. At least, it did for me (still using the Silvia).

If I were more obsessive, perhaps I'd yearn for a stepless grinder. But, I'm not. In 10 years of making various types of specialty coffee at home, even with cheaper gear, I'm pretty consistent. Any difference between one notch and another I can pretty much account for with a slight adjustment in tamping pressure. I hit my shot times, and I'm happy with the result, and that's what matters in my case.

Being that apart from the occasional iced milky drink for the missus, I'm the only one drinking coffee here, so I really don't need equipment that would run a small cafe. Not looking to compete at the World Barista Championship, just looking for a decent cuppa.

 

[kathy_allen]

I recently bought this Gaggia machine online. http://www.dailycuppacoffee.com/gaggia-baby-twin-semi-automatic-espresso-machine
See if it is what you have in mind - it's got a removable reservoir, marine brass chrome plated portafilter and 15 bar pump. I love it!