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Shedding with Dense Knots

Will a denser knot shed for a longer period of time than one less dense? I have a C&E Pure Badger that shed maybe three hairs during the first couple shaves, then no more in the last three months, but my 26mm Silvertip brush sheds about 3-4 hairs every time I shave and has since the day I got it about a month ago. Is this something I should be concerned about?
 
Just some extra details. I don't use the brush every day, so it has time to dry completely. I clean it well after each use, as I do my C&E brush. Anything else that I may be doing that is causing this?
 
I'm exploring this issue myself, but I suspect that super dense knots just tend to shed a little more. (Maybe with the exception of Simpsons brushes, but I think they put them through some sort of treatment that "pre-sheds" many of the loose hairs.)

I've been on a Frank Shaving kick lately. (Excellent, excellent brush for the money.) The first one I got was a second-hand custom with an extra dense knot and it tended to lose 3-4 hairs per shave. I got one with a standard knot, and it holds on to them quite well, no shedding. Then, I actually opened a dialogue with "Frank" (a very nice gentleman named Ian Tang... I'm still not entirely sure how that whole setup works, but that's another topic.) Anyway, he came across to me as a true artisan craftsman. He claims to purchase the badger hair directly from the source. (He called him a badger "farmer" but I suspect he was more of a trapper. AFAIK, badgers are not farmed.) He arranges and ties the knot himself. I think the handles are probably purchased pre-made from a factory, and he stuffs them by hand. They look and work great, but not super-special. I ordered a specific shape, a specific length, with a specific handle style and asked him to stuff it "as dense as he possibly could." Of course, there was a reasonable surcharge, but not excessive by any means. He told me specifically that he was able to put in an extra 1.6g of hair. Now, I can't tell you how many hairs are in 1.6g, but I would guess it's probably at least a thousand hairs. Mr. Tang did tell me that because the hairs were packed tighter, there was necessarily less glue in the knot, and that it may shed a little at first. Makes perfect sense, and he said it would settle down after a while.

So I just got my brush. It's A-MAZING. When he said dense, he wasn't lying. It's at least as dense as my Simpsons Classic 2 Best, which is a dense knot. It's amazingly soft, and I'm not even yet finished breaking it in. I've done about 5 test lathers, and shaved with it about 5 times. It probably averages 3-4 hairs shed per shave. (so far.) Even if it kept up at that rate, it would be a year before it was as thin as a "regular" knot, but I think and hope it will ease up over the coming weeks. My other dense custom brush is down to maybe 1 hair per week after two months. If my new brush does the same, it'll last a great many years.

I've heard, and experienced, that Simpsons brushes don't shed. My classic does not. It stands to reason that they probably spend extra time and effort making sure all the loose hairs come out at the factory. It's probably a somewhat laborious process. (I would imagine it goes further than just running a comb through it and beating it around a couple times.) I would consider my FS brush (size, quality) in league with a Chubby 2, and it was a quarter of the cost. Plus, completely made to order. (Although, I just basically ordered the specs of a Chubby 2.) Time will tell if the shedding declines, and I'll post a follow-up in a month or two, but considering I could literally buy 4 of these for the price of an equivalent Simpson, I think it's probably a great deal. True, only a Simpson is a Simpson, and someday, I may save up for a Chubby 2/3 Super, but until then, I think these are unbelievably great.
 
A brush is not suppose to shed 4or5 hairs each time you shave.

Maybe it depends. If I pay $325 for a brush, it damn well better hang onto every last hair in that knot. But if I pay $70 for one that feels just as nice on the face, and it sheds ~100 hairs before settling in, then no harm, right? Now, if it's still shedding in April, maybe we'll have a problem, but I DID ask specifically for an extra dense knot, and he DID tell me this would result in minor shedding. My non-dense FS knot (almost the same in every other respect) hasn't shed any hairs.

Going back to Simpson, they probably have rooms full of MBAs painstakingly hand combing each brush for hours on end to ensure that each and every loose hair is out of the knot. But that costs a hefty premium. In the end, I probably will buy a Simpson, but until I can spend that much on a brush, Frank makes a perfectly satisfying and affordable substitute.
 
Gotta strongly disagree about Simpson brushes not shedding. I have a Chubby 2 in best that I got in April or May that still sheds a few hairs each use. The thing is so insanely dense that I figure it has plenty to spare so I'm not too concerned yet. I also had a Duke 2 in best that shed for quite a while after I got it. My Rooney Heritage Stubby, my Thater 4125/2 and Shavemac d01 two band have not lost any hair at all.
 
I don't think a 70 dollar brush should shed. I own some expensive brushes & some not so expensive. I have had one shedder & it was an expensive brush. I also concur about Simpsons QC. I started to buy that wsp Manchurian badger & even talked with Lee about the shedding issues & he told he would replace if I was unhappy. Very stand up guy but I just didn't want a brush that started out shedding like that even though people reported that it stopped after about a month. I still think if a brush is constructed correct it won't shed. This is just my opinion & I am not bashing anyone who thinks otherwise.
 
"I still think if a brush is constructed correct it won't shed".

What do you mean by this statement?

I mean how is a brush supposed to be constructed and what is the correct way to construct a brush so that it doesn't shed?

I am very anxious to read your answer as I bet some brush makers are too, please be as specific as you can so we can all buy and make better brushes.

Thanks,

Justin
 
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In the way a natural hair brush knot is being constructed, it is obvious that shedding some hairs can not be completely avoided.
There is simply no way to make sure ALL hairs are perfectly aligned when the base of the knot is glued together. Some hairs have a slight curl. This will prevent them from aligning parallel and at the same height than all the others. When the glue hits the knot and penetrates the bottom there will be some hairs that just are higher up and will not get in touch with the glue. These will inevitably make there way out of the pack at some point of time.
The level at which this is occurring may vary but it's impossible to prevent this 100%.
 
I've heard, and experienced, that Simpsons brushes don't shed.

7 of my 8 Simpsons didn't shed, but my Rover still sheds a couple of hairs most shaves. This is after roughly 80 shaves over the past 2 years. It's always during loading or wash out which is why I was never annoyed enough to complain. If hairs were being left on my face during lathering, I would have done something about it.
 
I mean by constructed correct the hair put together & glued correctly. As I stated above I have had one shedder in 40 years. Every other brush I have purchased has not shed one hair. How well the maker constructs the brush is going to make a difference if it sheds or not.
 
I mean by constructed correct the hair put together & glued correctly. As I stated above I have had one shedder in 40 years. Every other brush I have purchased has not shed one hair. How well the maker constructs the brush is going to make a difference if it sheds or not.

I am completely open to being wrong here; I am far from an expert. But wouldn't it stand to reason that by packing the hairs more tightly, less glue can get into the knot and hold it all together? If you're comparing less tightly packed brushes you've used over the past 40 years, that seems to be a very logical explanation as to why they don't shed. I keep bringing up Simpson because they represent the only exception that I've experienced first-hand. Their knots are dense as hell, so they would not fall into this category. This is where 100 years of experience really comes in. They obviously do something different than the other manufacturers there because of a combination of high density and (general) low shedding. I'm not saying other premium brands are bad. Some people aren't looking for a super dense knot. I've never used, or even seen, a Kent, Rooney or Shavemac, but it's my understanding that they're not Simpson dense. My Frank Shaving is as dense as my Simpson Classic 2, if not slightly more so. It's also quite a bit softer because it' same different grade of badger hair. I hope to someday be able to compare my Frank Shaving to a Simpson Chubby, but that day is a long ways away.
 
There is a difference between shedding and dropping loose hairs. A new brush will drop loose hairs. Maybe 1-2 for the first couple of shaves. After about a week it should be done for good with an occasional loose hair to drop every now and again. This is normal.

A shedding brush will lose 4+ hairs every shave. Sometimes they will lose a disgusting amount. The vendor or manufacturer of the brush should be contacted ASAP if this occurs within a reasonable amount of time from purchase.

Always make sure you soak your brush before use, allow it to dry fully in open air after use, and don't use excess pressure while using it. When you see soap buildup do this: How to: Clean a Shaving Brush - Badger & Blade. If you follow these steps your brush will stay in good health.
 
I am not an expert on this. 98% of my brushes are large dense knots & the only name brand that has shed was a Simpson. I just don't want to deal with one that sheds 5 to 10 hairs a shave until it settles down. I also believe that we have been hyped by these companies that this is a normal occurrence. If it doesn't bother you guys, that's fine. I been shaving since the60s & its one of my quirks. I could be all wet on this view. Grayson
 
There is a difference between shedding and dropping loose hairs. A new brush will drop loose hairs. Maybe 1-2 for the first couple of shaves. After about a week it should be done for good with an occasional loose hair to drop every now and again. This is normal.

A shedding brush will lose 4+ hairs every shave. Sometimes they will lose a disgusting amount. The vendor or manufacturer of the brush should be contacted ASAP if this occurs within a reasonable amount of time from purchase.

Always make sure you soak your brush before use, allow it to dry fully in open air after use, and don't use excess pressure while using it. When you see soap buildup do this: How to: Clean a Shaving Brush - Badger & Blade. If you follow these steps your brush will stay in good health.
Thanks for the input! The reason I was concerned was because I was doing exactly this from the start.
 
My wife is a makeup artist and suggested that I lay my brushes down, or hang them upside down after drying. I started to lay this brush on its side on a towel after use, and the problem has seemed to stop. Perhaps water was staying trapped in the brush and making the hairs brittle? Or perhaps it just happened to stop at the same time. Either way, my brush isn't shedding right now.
 
The shedding issue could have something to do with if the knot is tied by hand or machine. This issue did not come up 10 years ago. The one shedder I have had was a Simpson chubby. A lot of products today have suffered from QC issues. I suspect this is is going to get worse instead of better in the future.
 
I own some VERY dense,large brushes including a Rooney Stubby 3XL,2XL and a Simpson Chubby 2 and 3. Over a period of several years,they have possibly shed half a dozen hairs at the max.The dense,large brushes I've bought that are hand made and quite costly,just have not shed at all. Of course,you may occasionally get a defective brush.But that's not been my experience.

Craig
 
I think the most dense brush I have is a Chubby 1 -
I've pulled one loose hair out of it since I got it a month ago.

Hoping it stays just as it is :)
 
I have a reasonable sized unbranded badger, that I bought when I was working in Germany, that shed few hairs for a week or so, and occasionally drops the odd hair now and then, 2 years later.

I also have a Chubby 2 that looses 4-5 hairs every shave, and has done for 6 months or more. I was just starting out with soaps and thought it might be the problem, so I started using creams again. It made no difference.

I may be disappointed that the Chubby loses hair, but not to the point of returning the brush.

It is one of the quirks that maybe makes my Chubby 2 different to your Chubby 2. If it dies a miserable death shedding all the way, then "C'est La Vie".

I will try the tip on storing it on its side. :thumbup:
 
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