Shaving with Da Beast, still an elusive goal

[totorlekiller]

So I bought this one on eBay a few weeks back.
There was something very appealing about how it was restored with what I consider a great Judo move: turning what must have been a ding on the blade into an aggressive, yet elegant attitude. The body is made in texture purple heart. The blade is an old Sheffield 601, beautifully restored to a perfect mirror finish. Overall, a very nice piece and it was supposed to come shave ready.
Now, 'supposed' is the key word here as it came as blunt as the finger of a Sumo Wrestler.
No problems, I thought. I am properly equipped to deal with that. Got a Norton 4k/8k, a 12k Chinese stone and plenty of Chromium Oxyde.

Anyway, I have been spending over 4 hours now honing this, in 3 sessions. And each time, I get it to somewhere resembling HHT1, then I try to shave with it, but no luck.
It can shave my arm, but that has very little value to me. For my face, all it does is irritate my skin (and me with the frustration) until I give up and pull my Thiers Issard or Dovo to finish the job.

And that thing was not cheap either.

 

[Wid]

Have ya contacted the seller?

 

[Mike H]

Did you hone your Dovo and TI also?

 

[totorlekiller]

The Dovo and TI were my beginner one. They came factory honed.
I had to work a bit on the Dovo because it is stainless steel and loses the edge all the time.
But adjusting a hone is a lot easier than honing something dull.
So I've learned.
This is my first, true honing exercise.
I have not contacted the vendor as I thought it would just be easier to deal with it like a man. Plus I figured if the claim was so materially untrue, why should I trust him with a second chance?

 

[Wid]

I would suggest to send the razor out to someone for honing. The Dovo shouldn't be loosing the edge all the time just because it is stainless. Could be something else, like an incomplete honing.

 

[totorlekiller]

or bad stropping.

 

[daflorc]

1. Stainless steel is known to hold its edge better than carbon steel.

2. If you bought that modified gold dollar from an amateur restorationist, and not one of the well known ones, it is likely that their amateur restoration attempt damaged the temper. I've never known a razor restorer to sell a custom or restored razor as anything other than shave ready.

3. If you can't get it shaving sharp, and you are new to honing, you are in the 99.99 percentile. Send it to someone who knows what they're doing. If they can't get it shaving sharp (and if it cannot then hold an edge) the temper is probably ruined and you've been had.

 

[Seraphim]

1. Stainless steel is known to hold its edge better than carbon steel.

2. If you bought that modified gold dollar from an amateur restorationist, and not one of the well known ones, it is likely that their amateur restoration attempt damaged the temper. I've never known a razor restorer to sell a custom or restored razor as anything other than shave ready.

3. If you can't get it shaving sharp, and you are new to honing, you are in the 99.99 percentile. Send it to someone who knows what they're doing. If they can't get it shaving sharp (and if it cannot then hold an edge) the temper is probably ruined and you've been had.

This is what I was thinking.

That high polish look is nice. But buffing can create ALOT of heat FAST. And quickly ruin the temper of the blade.

 

[global_dev]

Is a 4k gonna set a bevel ?

 

[Gamma]

It will - but slowly.

 

[global_dev]

So each hone session was about an hour with a 4k, 8k and super slow cnat, and crox. And the shave isnt so hot. I can believe that.

Are you looking through a scope/loupe to check or going by some special method? Is the surface of the 4/8 flat and fresh?

 

[totorlekiller]

The 4/8 is brand new, except for a few hours I spent on it before attempting to tame the beast.

I am still trying to figure out a method.
I spent a lot of time on the 4K, but maybe not long enough.
The plan was to stay on the 4k until it could cut arm hairs effortlessly, then move to 8K.
Since that milestone did not really come, I thought I was too ambitious with what 4k could do and moved to 8k anyway.
After a while 8k did deliver the smooth arm shaving, but not much further.
When the 8k did not get me to hht0, I went back to 4k for a while and back up to 8k.
I finally got to something that I'd call hht -1. It ends up cutting the hanging hair, but I have to fumble for a while until it happens.
From there I tried the chinese 12k but that did not improve anything.
Stropping with or without crOx did not improve the hht score.
And shaving (or attempting to) confirmed what the test was hinting at.

Some of the learning along the way though:
- I seem to be getting better result by switching side on each stroke. Initially I going more along the line of 20 one sides, then flip and 20 the other side.
- I tried to apply lot of pressure, which would seem to make sense to set a bevel, but that did not work very well on the finishing. So considering how thin and delicate the edge is, a much lighter touch (as in stropping) seems to be more appropriate.

Am I on the right track with those observations?

Now as a couple of people pointed out, the razor might not be honable - as the finish is so nice, it could indeed have been overheaten. But for now, I'll assume the fault is mine and I need to get a few more things right

 

[daflorc]

Here's an important fact - the SHAVE test is the only important one. If you've actually gotten that thing to cut a hanging hair all the way along the edge, you're done. Strop it 100 times and shave. If it ain't comfy and nice, then use crOx followed by more stropping on leather. If its a nice shave for about 1/4 to 1/2 of your face and then the shave gets crappy, you've probably got a ruined temper.

BTW, the last 20-40 strokes on the 8k should be zero weight - only use the weight of the blade. It should also be water only - no slurry. After the 8k, the 50-100 strokes you're going to need to do on a chinese 12K (because they are super slow cutters) ALL need to be zero pressure.

Another note: you can only use heavy pressure when setting the bevel on thicker grinds. If you try to do it on a full hollow, the very edge of the blade will flex off the stone and you'll wind up with a wider-than-necessary bevel and no edge improvement.

Some tips for turning a 4 hour, hair-pulling honing session into a 30 minute, satisfying one:

Stay on a 1k stone until it cuts wet arm hair all along the edge. If you think it should but its not, remove slurry, go water only, and reduce pressure until it does. If you don't have a 1k, do this with your 4k. Slurry will make the process faster, but as always, do water only for the last 20-40 strokes, and no pressure. If you get this bevel-setting step right, you'll only need 50 strokes on a good 8k, and 50 on a good 12k (possibly 100 with a chinese 12k) and some stropping.

If you find you're not getting a shave ready edge after doing the aforementioned strategy, you're doing something wrong. If you find its impossible to get a good edge, add one more piece of tape to the spine to create a double-bevel and do 20-40 strokes on your chinese 12k.

 

[totorlekiller]

OK. Many thanks for the step by step marker.
It sounds like I spent too much time on 8K because not enough on 4k.

I have a 1K. I hesitate to use it for anything but really rough work because I do not trust that it is flat as I have used it for knife and random tools sharpening. Those are cheap though, so I might just get another one at ACE.

Anyway, considering how much time I have spent on this, I was staring to revise down my ambition for restoration. So I need some honing success story now, or I might have to part with the collection of LeGrelot I have accumulated over the past 6 months that are waiting for some love.
Fortunately, the best of the lot (NOS in Ebony) came shave-ready thanks to the Gentlemen in Italy who parted with it. And in this case, shave-ready was meant, not a marketing trick.

 

[totorlekiller]

1. Stainless steel is known to hold its edge better than carbon steel.

I have seen something along those lines discussed on some board. Something to do with the edge of carbon steel oxidizing if not maintained correctly. But stropping after and general good maintenance should take care of that.
Otherwise, I thought the reason why carbon steel is still most widely in used is because of the hardness advantage.

Have you had good luck with Stainless?

 

[global_dev]

Use a 1k! Make sure all your whetstone surfaces are flat.

Make sure you as absolutely have a bevel before jumping to 4K. Good luck

 

[oakeshott]

Anyway, considering how much time I have spent on this, I was staring to revise down my ambition for restoration. So I need some honing success story now, or I might have to part with the collection of LeGrelot I have accumulated over the past 6 months that are waiting for some love.
Fortunately, the best of the lot (NOS in Ebony) came shave-ready thanks to the Gentlemen in Italy who parted with it. And in this case, shave-ready was meant, not a marketing trick.

Sorry, no quitting allowed.

Seriously, this honing stuff is hard. Legitimately hard. It took 20 hours of honing on, iirc, 3 different razors before I got an edge. Things have improved tremendously since that day, but I don't think any bevel was celebrated as much as that first one. Stay with it. Keep asking for help. Try everything until you find what works. Stick with that until it doesn't and then find something else. Your tool kit will grow and all those Grelot will be sharp and shortly afterwards you'll be pimping for blades to sharpen.

 

[Prof. Moriarty]

OK.
Anyway, considering how much time I have spent on this, I was staring to revise down my ambition for restoration. So I need some honing success story now, or I might have to part with the collection of LeGrelot I have accumulated over the past 6 months that are waiting for some love.
Fortunately, the best of the lot (NOS in Ebony) came shave-ready thanks to the Gentlemen in Italy who parted with it. And in this case, shave-ready was meant, not a marketing trick.

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[totorlekiller]

Pics or it didn't happen.

I have one unfair advantage for getting that kind of stuff: I speak french and I have a shipping address there (sometimes, they won't ship to US).

It seems Straight are not as popular in France as they are here on in Germany, so there are still plenty of good deal there. I'll be hunting down those flea markets this summer.
And about the popularity, for some reasons, the proper name for straight razor, "sabre" is not used much. People refer to them as 'coupe choux', which translates with Cabbage cutter. Does not sound cool at all, which I'd see as a major hurdle for more common adoption.

 

[Prof. Moriarty]

View attachment 335969
I have one unfair advantage for getting that kind of stuff: I speak french and I have a shipping address there (sometimes, they won't ship to US).

It seems Straight are not as popular in France as they are here on in Germany, so there are still plenty of good deal there. I'll be hunting down those flea markets this summer.
And about the popularity, for some reasons, the proper name for straight razor, "sabre" is not used much. People refer to them as 'coupe choux', which translates with Cabbage cutter. Does not sound cool at all, which I'd see as a major hurdle for more common adoption.

Lovely, shhh I buy a lot of my straights on the French eBay (my girlfriend is French so I have a shipping address there as well as someone who speaks French). They are not unpopular I have found though, but generally as soon as someone hears Le Grelot the price shoots up quite a lot. Must say I love your ebony one, do you have a picture of your collection? My collection currently consists of two Le Grelots, hope to acquire more someday.