What's new

Shaving Soap

David,
I would offer the suggestion that you not use the current production English cosmetic-ised creams as a benchmark.

Using the Italian made tallow based soaps, Valobra, AOS, C&S would set the bar much higher. The English made Penhaligon's, DR Harris and Trumper's are also a good baseline.

If you wish to shoot for the moon, get yourself a puck of vintage Yardley shave soap. :001_smile
 
David,

Just took a look at your website, now I want to move! If that's your 'place' shown in the photo, it's gorgeous.

Now about those bathsoaps. I will be placing my order later today, so many scents to choose from. Even though I make my own, it's always fun to try someone elses. I keep a tub of a variety of soaps in the shower to choose from.

You'll have more help than you could want for here. Nice to see you posting after waiting so long. I wish you every success and know your shaving soap will be great.

Sue
 
David,
I would offer the suggestion that you not use the current production English cosmetic-ised creams as a benchmark.

Using the Italian made tallow based soaps, Valobra, AOS, C&S would set the bar much higher. The English made Penhaligon's, DR Harris and Trumper's are also a good baseline.

If you wish to shoot for the moon, get yourself a puck of vintage Yardley shave soap. :001_smile

Jim,

I understand what you are saying but most of my personal experience IS with the English creams. I am not using those as a benchmark, as you suggested but rather I was commenting that my first attempt came out remarkably like those shaving creams. Keep in mind, these creams are the "older" versions of shave cream not the "cosmetic-ised creams" that you mentioned. These have a typical list of ingredients...

"Water, Stearic Acid, Myristic Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Coconut Acid, Glycerin, Triethanolamine, Sodium Hydroxide, Fragrance, Methylparaben, Propylparaben."

...(and not the "newer" versions which contain surfactants and other "not natural" components.) Yes, I know that many of these older creams are actually made by the same manufacturer and these creams contain several of the same raw materials as I am using for my shaving soap i.e. fixed oils, fatty acids and hydroxides so a comparison of a shaving cream with a shaving soap is actually not so far fetched! Similar ingredients, different proportions!

I have complied an ingredients listing chart of most of the current shaving soaps available but several of them could not be used as a benchmark because, as an example, "Trumper's" (which you listed) contains IPM (Isopropyl Myristate), "Truefitt & Hill" contains Mineral oil, IPM, "eShave" contains Cocomide DEA, "Roger & Gallet" contains sodium lauryl sulfate etc.

A great deal of the reference I am using is from very old soapmaking books from the last two centuries so this will be the basis of my shaving soaps and these resources and old formulas will serve as my benchmarks! Sorry, if I was not clear in my post. As you can see, I've done my homework and now I need to go make some wonderful shaving soap! Thanks for your input, Jim!
 
Which French soaps are you referring to?
He's referring to the products Provence Santé, Pré de Provence and Institute Karité. These products are to my knowlegde all vegetal in origin, and all three contain shea butter to some extent, which gives them a vey luxurious yet still easy-going feel. I've never tried IK; PS practically lathers itself and gives you an A+-shave; PdP in an older formulation (which I currently use) is a bit more finicky (make that a 'bit too much'), but once you get it going it works as good as PS.

I find it interesting to speculate on the fact that other vegetal soaps I know do not seem to perform as well for me as these shea butter-products. Based on some average numbers I dug up with Google, I even think that a carefully optimised palm - palm kernel - shea butter mixture is the way to go if you want to create a 'vegetal tallow'.

You can find ingredient lists of these products fairly easily: just use the search function of this forum.
 
Jim,

I understand what you are saying but most of my personal experience IS with the English creams. I am not using those as a benchmark, as you suggested but rather I was commenting that my first attempt came out remarkably like those shaving creams. Keep in mind, these creams are the "older" versions of shave cream not the "cosmetic-ised creams" that you mentioned. These have a typical list of ingredients...

"Water, Stearic Acid, Myristic Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Coconut Acid, Glycerin, Triethanolamine, Sodium Hydroxide, Fragrance, Methylparaben, Propylparaben."

...(and not the "newer" versions which contain surfactants and other "not natural" components.) Yes, I know that many of these older creams are actually made by the same manufacturer and these creams contain several of the same raw materials as I am using for my shaving soap i.e. fixed oils, fatty acids and hydroxides so a comparison of a shaving cream with a shaving soap is actually not so far fetched! Similar ingredients, different proportions!

I have complied an ingredients listing chart of most of the current shaving soaps available but several of them could not be used as a benchmark because, as an example, "Trumper's" (which you listed) contains IPM (Isopropyl Myristate), "Truefitt & Hill" contains Mineral oil, IPM, "eShave" contains Cocomide DEA, "Roger & Gallet" contains sodium lauryl sulfate etc.

A great deal of the reference I am using is from very old soapmaking books from the last two centuries so this will be the basis of my shaving soaps and these resources and old formulas will serve as my benchmarks! Sorry, if I was not clear in my post. As you can see, I've done my homework and now I need to go make some wonderful shaving soap! Thanks for your input, Jim!


Sorry to have made you write that reply David!

My point though is not about the ingredients but the benchmark of performance.

If you (I don't know) have never used a top shelf tallow based shave soap as I listed above, then what are you going to compare your soap to performance wise?

I hope this is helpful.
 
There cannot be one benchmark simply because user preference varies too greatly. Therefore setting the benchmark at a product which yields lather thick as lard automatically excludes those people who prefer lighter and thinner lathers.
 
There cannot be one benchmark simply because user preference varies too greatly. Therefore setting the benchmark at a product which yields lather thick as lard automatically excludes those people who prefer lighter and thinner lathers.

I think your assessment is somewhat specious, the ability to create a thick cushion and slick lather is paramount to many shavers. As you said you prefer a thinner lather, that can always be produced by a good soap simply by adjusting the water to product ratio. You can always tune down a race car but you cannot race a Yugo.:001_smile
 
Jim,

All fixed oils in soapmaking are made of fatty acids, among other things, and each fatty acid has a particular characteristic in soap. As a soapmaker for the last ten years I have worked with numerous fixed oils each having it's own set of characteristics in soapmaking. I know what each and every fatty acid does in soap and what percentages are best to attain the desired characteristics in the finished soap. I researched for a year before I made my first batch, learned all about the fatty acid makeup of each oil and developed a way of formulating that I still use to this day. My very first batch of soap came out perfect as a result! I can and will use this knowledge in working with Tallow as I know the fatty acid makeup of Tallow and what each fatty acid it contains can bring to a formula!

As a "wet shaver" I have used many of the shaving soaps and shaving creams that are available out there so I can certainly use that experience to my benefit. Do I think it is necessary to have a "benchmark" as you suggest? I'm not so sure! Do I want to copy what another is doing? No. Do I want to make a better shaving soap than anyone else? Yes! That's my goal but I don't agree that I have to compare myself to others to do it. Keep in mind, many of the brands you suggested are triple milled. My soaps are cold process, and if you aren't aware the cold process method has been around for centuries and one of the main benefits from using this method is the retained glycerin which is especially beneficial in a shaving soap. So often on these shaving boards I see people comparing different products and wondering why they are not like another product without realizing that they are made from different ingredients or made with a completely different process. So, basically, they are comparing apples to oranges. So, I could only really compare myself to what others who use the cold process method of soapmaking but they are few and far between. Will I check out other shaving soaps? Of course! Any experimentation can be beneficial but in the long run, the only person or company I am competing against is myself and my company! After all, I want to provide people with the best possible product I know how to make and my benchmark is what I want it to be!

Thanks again for your input, I am always appreciative of others perceptions and viewpoints! :biggrin:
 
Last edited:
Me too, especially if it smell anything close to Musgo Real!! A nice lightly scented Vetiver would be nice.

Yo tambien, I have not been able to find a tallow based Vetiver scented soap.
Whole foods sells a scented Vetiver and Cedarwood soap that i love; it will make an excellent shaving soap...with tallow, of course.
 
David,

Just took a look at your website, now I want to move! If that's your 'place' shown in the photo, it's gorgeous.

Now about those bathsoaps. I will be placing my order later today, so many scents to choose from. Even though I make my own, it's always fun to try someone elses. I keep a tub of a variety of soaps in the shower to choose from.

You'll have more help than you could want for here. Nice to see you posting after waiting so long. I wish you every success and know your shaving soap will be great.

Sue

Sue,

Thanks so much for the kind words and thoughts! As I am just getting to know my way around here, I just noticed your site listed and took a quick look! Very nice! I'll go back later for a longer look after I make those two batches of shaving soap I was trying to get around to! I was waiting for a 50 lb. pail of oil to melt...

Yes, that it my home that I share with my partner. We call it the "Luvshak" and even have lettering on the 150 year old barn out front saying so! LOL! It is a very cute house and is in the middle of a complete renovation. It has been ongoing for 5 months with me living there full-time! What a trip! It will be beautiful inside when it is done!

Thanks for showing interest in my site and products. I would be delighted to have you as my first customer from Badger & Blade! Thanks again for your welcoming words!

Now to make some shaving soap...
 
You have a very nice site with some interesting soap scents. I wish you good luck making a shaving soap. I look forward to hearing about your results.

J.
 
Welcome. High quality scents like lavender and violet are nice (but not with cheap synthetics). Personally, I like anything that smells soapy and clean.
 
Hey folks!

Thanks to DunEdinRanger, tlanning, Hammer, Jcof3474, MAK for their replies! I made two batches last evening and everything went well. I further refined my production techniques in working with a new type of soap and I'm getting used to working with lined PVC pipe molds which I had created several years ago just for this purpose. (to create a wonderful, round shaving puck!) I tried two new formulas and working with an additional oil for emolliency posed no problems! YAY! Keep in mind, for the moment I am making an all vegetable product. Knowing the fatty acid makeup of Tallow I know I can recreate a bar that works just as well as Tallow without having to get away from my all vegetable range of products. However, I am open to working with Tallow if the demand is there.

I will offer the basic bar that I am perfecting now and I plan to offer other variations including a bar with clay, Shea Butter and other natural additives and emollients like cymric suggested (Thanks for your imput!) and I am compiling a list of scents that I am going to try based on your suggestions!

So far, I know I am going to try:

Fougere - check my site for the description - think "English Fern"

Hesperide - check my site for the description - a wonderful "Eau de Cologne" I developed

Spiced Bay and Bay Lime - check my site for the description - are being considered

Blue Musk - check my site for the description - I used this in the first trial batch and love it!

Rose and Violet are each being considered - both wonderful and masculine florals

I am really excited about this project and am eager to hear more about what you are seeking. I am creating a product that will be different than the ones that are typically offered by cold-process soapmakers today and am excited about the prospects! I hope you are too! I will report back when I have unmolded the logs and have cut them into disks and tell you of my progress! Thanks again for your interest and support!

P.S. My store in Frenchtown, New Jersey is open 12-5 on Saturday and Sunday this weekend and I would welcome anyone on a fieldtrip :wink:
 
I think your assessment is somewhat specious, the ability to create a thick cushion and slick lather is paramount to many shavers. As you said you prefer a thinner lather, that can always be produced by a good soap simply by adjusting the water to product ratio. You can always tune down a race car but you cannot race a Yugo.:001_smile
Well, paramount yes, but not to the exclusion of all else. Taking Cella, P.160 and La Toja as examples: these products create thick cushiony lathers many shavers here adore. For me however, they are not so good: at the right level of slickness they are too cushiony. If the cushion is right, they are too watery to be of much use. That's simply how they work out for me. Water can change a soap's characteristics, true, but within certain limits. To take your car analogy: a race car (F1 make) will not provide the same level of comfort that---admittedly stretching things here---a Yugo can. The suspension is different, the driver position is different, the Yugo can take passengers, and so forth.
 
Ha ha, true, true with your car analogy, I would not group P160 in with the soaps I mentioned, it is a good soap/cream but I would not classify it as the same league and I would offer that the cushion of it is far below that of the soaps I mentioned.
 
For me personally I don't care if the shaving soap is tallow or not, as long as it works very well. What I really care about is a good amount of cushion, and also the soap having the ability to not dry out quickly on your face mid shave. If the soap can remain thick and creamy then I am happy.

As far as scents go, I love woodsy types of scents and am always drawn to them. I love cedar, sandalwood, and vetiver types of scents.

Thanks for listening to my $.02. :)

J.
 
Top Bottom