Shaving & grinds

[JGKC9AYC]

Just curious if it's just me or what, but i'm wondering if those of you that own & shave with both a full hollow & a full wedge get a "credit card against the grain" type sound with the full hollow & practically no noise with a full wedge?
Or perhaps it's my honing skills...or lack thereof.

 

[rockviper]

You're pretty bang on there. I describe hollow sounds as scraping toast and found it quite distracting. Hence, my preference for 1/4 hollow and near wedges.

 

[JGKC9AYC]

It is distracting.
I've got an old 8/8 W&B & an old 5/8 Wadsworth that absolutely shave like a dream!
Perhaps I too am starting to lean towards wedges.

 

[tomjr]

yes

 

[Oscroft]

Yep - I like heavy grind razors as well, but I love the sound of a full hollow.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Except under my nose where I can't maintain a proper angle, my hollow grinds are about as silent as my heavier grinds. If you're making a lot of noise, it means you're scraping more than cutting, and that will cause a LOT of irritation if you do it after your WTG pass.

 

[JGKC9AYC]

Except under my nose where I can't maintain a proper angle, my hollow grinds are about as silent as my heavier grinds. If you're making a lot of noise, it means you're scraping more than cutting, and that will cause a LOT of irritation if you do it after your WTG pass.

So it is my honing skills (or lack thereof) that's causing my hollow grind to sound like scraping burnt toast?
It seems all my hollow grinds do this, but I don't remember much, if any, irritation.

 

[Attila]

No, he was talkung about the angle at which you are shaving. If you are more than 1-2 spine widths away (which is the recommended angle, unless under the nose.) So that is likely what is contributing to the scraping sound. The shave angle.

 

[KW Driver]

I don't shave with a different technique, but my thinner grinds definitely make more noise. With the appropriate angles used, from extra hollow to 1/4 hollow. And I've used a full wedge that was silent.

so, to the point of it, I like hearing the toast getting buttered. I started with hollows, and it was another indication of the quality of the work I was doing, as I learned to wield a straight.

 

[JGKC9AYC]

I guess I get the assumption that if it's (the razor/shave) making a racket, then it's shaving poorly.
I'm probably wrong, tho.

 

[SliceOfLife]

The noise is caused by the blade flexing and ringing like if you were to grab a hunk of sheet metal and swing it around in the air, which happens when pressure is applied to it against the edge rather then at the edge. This is obviously an inefficient way to cut, and you're basically using the flesh of your face to press the hair against the edge, rather than just using the hairs natural tendency to stand up, allowing a sharp edge to lop it off without the actual cutting surface of edge contacting the flesh of the face at all.

According to an arm hair test on an ~8kmesh finished blade just now, it seems this can happen with a low angle as well, if the razor is dull enough. The razor catches the hair but doesn't cut it, lays it down, and as the stroke continues, eventually cuts it, again using the pressure of the hair being held down against the skin and scraping/tugging its way through it.

I can NOT get even my thinnest ground (DD Wonderedge) razor to cut loudly with both a good edge and a proper angle.

 

[Oscroft]

The noise is caused by the blade flexing and ringing like if you were to grab a hunk of sheet metal and swing it around in the air, which happens when pressure is applied to it against the edge rather then at the edge. This is obviously an inefficient way to cut [...]

I can NOT get even my thinnest ground (DD Wonderedge) razor to cut loudly with both a good edge and a proper angle.

I think you're in a minority there then. Everyone else I've heard from who uses hollow-ground blades gets a sound from them, even when using an angle of 1-2 spine widths - I certainly get a pronounced sound with that kind of angle, using a blade just honed beautifully sharp on a JNAT by Brooksie.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Obviously you get a sound, but noisiness that isn't present in thicker grinds is from blade flexing, which is a sign of a very high angle or low angle with a bad edge.

 

[Oscroft]

Obviously you get a sound, but noisiness that isn't present in thicker grinds is from blade flexing, which is a sign of a very high angle or low angle with a bad edge.

No it isn't - lots of people get it from very well-honed blades using the correct angle. Some thin grinds just flex because of their design, even when well-honed and used at the correct angle.

 

[SliceOfLife]

If your hair is strong enough that it flexes the steel blade driving a cutting edge put against it at the optimum angle, then your shaves must be difficult indeed. That would be like blades of grass flexing a filet knife.

 

[Oscroft]

If your hair is strong enough that it flexes the steel blade driving a cutting edge put against it at the optimum angle, then your shaves must be difficult indeed. That would be like blades of grass flexing a filet knife.

I shave perfectly well with a well-honed hollow blade at an angle of 1-2 spine-widths, and it makes more noise than does a well-honed thicker grind at the same angle - and that's what everyone else I've heard from experiences, other than you. Your claim that hollow blades only make more noise than thick ones at a "very high angle" or with a "bad edge" is nonsense.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I shave perfectly well with a well-honed hollow blade at an angle of 1-2 spine-widths

You don't say? 2 spine widths, or on your average blade, just shy of forty degrees. Tell me, do you use this angle on your ATG passes?

 

[Oscroft]

You don't say? 2 spine widths, or on your average blade, just shy of forty degrees. Tell me, do you use this angle on your ATG passes?

Now you're just being petulant.

Anyway, you're obviously right and everyone else who says they experience more noise from a hollow than a wedge is obviously wrong - yep, the only possibility is that they're using a "very high angle" or a "bad edge", as you say. I bow to your superiority and will plug my ears next time I shave with a hollow so that I don't hear anything.

Bye.

 

[SliceOfLife]

That's not petulance. You're suggesting an angle above the already grossly excessive angle recommended on other sites is a proper angle to shave with. Of course you will hear noise when you are nearly half-way to presenting the flat side of the razor rather than the edge to the hair. If you have a vegetable peeler handy, take it and a potato and hold the peeler at the bottom of the swinging blades action. This will approximate a bit less than the angle you are using to shave with the majority of peelers. Now holding the blade down like that, try and peel the potato.

 

[Oscroft]

You're suggesting an angle above the already grossly excessive angle recommended on other sites is a proper angle to shave with.

I have suggested no such thing - please at least do me the honour of reading what I actually wrote. I said I use an angle of "1 to 2 spine-widths", and at the 1 end of that scale it is nowhere near the 40 degrees you claim I am suggesting. On most parts of my face it's around the 1-width but on others it needs to be around 2 because of facial geometry (and obviously, WTG on my top lip is higher). For ATG my angle is closer than WTG - with one or two razors I even actually find they work best flat, but that's not usual.

Your claim that you only get more noise with a hollow than a thicker grind by using a "very high angle" or a "bad edge" (and those are your actual words) remains wrong.

I respect your experience and your contributions here, but you do have a habit of making minority pronouncements in an authoritative tone that can mislead newcomers into thinking they're doing everything wrong.

And with that, I really do bid you goodbye, as I add you to my list of ignored posters.