SHAVE-OFF Cnat -v- Pasted Balsa

[rbscebu]

A week or so ago I received my first natural whetstone finisher, a Chinese natural whetstone being an Adaee #12000.

​

This whetstone is huge at 200mm x 75mm x 30mm. I could find very little about this whetstone other than some rather short reviews on AliExpress, mostly from knife sharpeners. It was, however, within my rather limited budget costing well under USD 50 including shipping. Others were going to be in the USD 200 or more range.

Once received, I wanted to try this whetstone out and see how it performed. I chose one of two identical SRs for this, Titan 1918 ACRO T.H-70s, both finished on diamond pasted balsa. The chosen one was lightly bread-knifed on the bottom of a glass tumbler to where it wouldn't even shave my silken arm hair.

Since receiving the Cnat I have spent my time learning how to use it and redeveloping the edge on the chosen SR. Reset the bevel on 3k synthetic, then on to an 8k synthetic and finally onto the Cnat for finishing.

It took quite a while and a lot of time and test shaved to learn the Cnat, particularly with the very hard steel of the T.H-70. By yesterday I thought that I had got it with the Cnat and the T.H-70. This morning I decided it was time to compare the Cnat edge against the pasted balsa edge on the other twin T.H-70.

Just to be sure that the balsa edge was in top condition, I put it through a full balsa progression before this morning's shave; 0.5μm, 0.25μm, 0.1μm and 0.1μm hanging. Both blade's were then stropped equally on clean leather and the comparison commenced.

Titan 1918 T.H-70 SRs
Balsa edge LHS (orange ball) and Cnat edge RHS (green ball)
​

The did my normal pre-shave prep and commenced a three-pass shave; WTG, XTG + fool's pass and XTG in the opposite direction. During each pass I swapped the two SRs over between the LHS of my face and the RHS.

The results surprised me. WTG and both XTG passes were almost equal in shaving closeness with the two, the Cnat edge being noticeably more comfortable on the skin. The fool's pass showed a difference. The balsa edge was just a little more closer and easier to use in this ATG on the upper lip.

My verdict is that the Cnat edge can give the same shave result as the balsa edge with more comfort. The balsa edge is preferred for tough ATG shaving. I never thought that a natural edge could get close to a diamond pasted balsa edge. I was wrong.

In a few days time, I will do another Cnat/balsa edge comparison using two identical Gold Dollar W59 SRs. These SRs are of softer steel and have a much more acute bevel angle. If I get the same or better results, I will put a Cnat edge on one of each of my four matching weekend SR sets.

This has been fun and has taken my honing knowledge up to another level.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

My verdict is that the Cnat edge can give the same shave result as the balsa edge with more comfort. The balsa edge is preferred for tough ATG shaving. I never thought that a natural edge could get close to a diamond pasted balsa edge. I was wrong.

I thought the same but I have found that edges off my translucent ark can rival it, and definitely more comfortably. I wear a mustache so I never do a fool's pass... if I did I might prefer balsa still. The ark edges last a lot longer too, with just normal stropping. I find that method edges get harsh quickly without the daily .1 diamond maintenance, although I haven't actually tried to push one to see how long it will actually shave on just leather alone.

 

[Bevel]

 

[Lightcs1776]

Wow, less than $50 is incredible.

 

[rbscebu]

Wow, less than $50 is incredible.

Available to all on AliExpress. I think mine cost about USD 30 including shipping to AU.

Being a natural, there can be some inclusions in the stone. When I ordered mine, I contacted the vendor and asked for a very clear stone as I was going to use it as a finisher on my straight razors. The vendor replied that no guarantee can be given as they are just sent randomly from their stock.

My Adaee 12000 came perfectly clear. I think that the vendor may have tried his best for me .

Here is a link to the Adaee store on AliExpress where I bought mine.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005003210769104.html?spm=a2g0n.detail.1000014.1.2eb73016mUufcT&gps-id=platformRecommendH5&scm=1007.18499.280016.0&scm_id=1007.18499.280016.0&scm-url=1007.18499.280016.0&pvid=56c8bf92-a76a-4f2a-87e2-b5514ff7dbab&_t=gps-id:platformRecommendH5,scm-url:1007.18499.280016.0,pvid:56c8bf92-a76a-4f2a-87e2-b5514ff7dbab,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238114%231999&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21AUD%21%2114.51%21%21%21%21%21%402101d1bb16549967316233135eac26%2112000024678607866%21rec

 

[Lightcs1776]

Might have to order one. That is an incredible price.

 

[rbscebu]

Might have to order one. That is an incredible price.

Mine is very hard and a slow cutter (compared to my Chinese synthetics). Working from an 8k synthetic, took a lot of work (laps) to get a great edge. Mine does not self-slurry so I had to use a 600 diamond plate to get a slurry.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Congrats on getting great edges from your CNAT, @rbscebu! Sounds like you got your edge-leading honing mojo working.

 

[JPO]

A week or so ago I received my first natural whetstone finisher, a Chinese natural whetstone being an Adaee #12000.

View attachment 1470797
​

This whetstone is huge at 200mm x 75mm x 30mm. I could find very little about this whetstone other than some rather short reviews on AliExpress, mostly from knife sharpeners. It was, however, within my rather limited budget costing well under USD 50 including shipping. Others were going to be in the USD 200 or more range.

Once received, I wanted to try this whetstone out and see how it performed. I chose one of two identical SRs for this, Titan 1918 ACRO T.H-70s, both finished on diamond pasted balsa. The chosen one was lightly bread-knifed on the bottom of a glass tumbler to where it wouldn't even shave my silken arm hair.

Since receiving the Cnat I have spent my time learning how to use it and redeveloping the edge on the chosen SR. Reset the bevel on 3k synthetic, then on to an 8k synthetic and finally onto the Cnat for finishing.

It took quite a while and a lot of time and test shaved to learn the Cnat, particularly with the very hard steel of the T.H-70. By yesterday I thought that I had got it with the Cnat and the T.H-70. This morning I decided it was time to compare the Cnat edge against the pasted balsa edge on the other twin T.H-70.

Just to be sure that the balsa edge was in top condition, I put it through a full balsa progression before this morning's shave; 0.5μm, 0.25μm, 0.1μm and 0.1μm hanging. Both blade's were then stropped equally on clean leather and the comparison commenced.

View attachment 1470810
Titan 1918 T.H-70 SRs
Balsa edge LHS (orange ball) and Cnat edge RHS (green ball)
​

The did my normal pre-shave prep and commenced a three-pass shave; WTG, XTG + fool's pass and XTG in the opposite direction. During each pass I swapped the two SRs over between the LHS of my face and the RHS.

The results surprised me. WTG and both XTG passes were almost equal in shaving closeness with the two, the Cnat edge being noticeably more comfortable on the skin. The fool's pass showed a difference. The balsa edge was just a little more closer and easier to use in this ATG on the upper lip.

My verdict is that the Cnat edge can give the same shave result as the balsa edge with more comfort. The balsa edge is preferred for tough ATG shaving. I never thought that a natural edge could get close to a diamond pasted balsa edge. I was wrong.

In a few days time, I will do another Cnat/balsa edge comparison using two identical Gold Dollar W59 SRs. These SRs are of softer steel and have a much more acute bevel angle. If I get the same or better results, I will put a Cnat edge on one of each of my four matching weekend SR sets.

This has been fun and has taken my honing knowledge up to another level.

Be careful. The CNAT is a gateway stone to JNAT's Coticules etc....
You might be in more trouble then you realise

 

[rbscebu]

Tomorrow morning I will be doing another shave-off. This time with two Gold Dollar W59s, one off balsa and the other off the Cnat.

Cnat finish has black tail
​

The balsa finished W59 takes the keenest of edges of all my SRs so I done expect the Cnat finish to win in the fool's pass. The reason I want to compare these to SRs is that they are of a much softer steel than the Titan ACRO T.H-70 SRs and have a much more acute bevel angle of about 16.5° or less.

After this second comparison, I will shave with my thinned down Titan ACRM-2 T.H.60 off a Cnat, just to see how it goes. Then I might give my Cnat experimentations a rest for a while. My other SRs need to be used.

 

[Bevel]

From memory you strop on 0.1 after each shave. You may want to stop doing this during any experiments to compare how the edges hold up over time. Natural edges are known to hold up better than the super-duper sharp synthetic edges.
You'll never get as sharp as a film edge or balsa (200k) from a natural but you're aiming for comfort now and overall keeness.

 

[camoloc]

A week or so ago I received my first natural whetstone finisher, a Chinese natural whetstone being an Adaee #12000.

View attachment 1470797
​

This whetstone is huge at 200mm x 75mm x 30mm. I could find very little about this whetstone other than some rather short reviews on AliExpress, mostly from knife sharpeners. It was, however, within my rather limited budget costing well under USD 50 including shipping. Others were going to be in the USD 200 or more range.

Once received, I wanted to try this whetstone out and see how it performed. I chose one of two identical SRs for this, Titan 1918 ACRO T.H-70s, both finished on diamond pasted balsa. The chosen one was lightly bread-knifed on the bottom of a glass tumbler to where it wouldn't even shave my silken arm hair.

Since receiving the Cnat I have spent my time learning how to use it and redeveloping the edge on the chosen SR. Reset the bevel on 3k synthetic, then on to an 8k synthetic and finally onto the Cnat for finishing.

It took quite a while and a lot of time and test shaved to learn the Cnat, particularly with the very hard steel of the T.H-70. By yesterday I thought that I had got it with the Cnat and the T.H-70. This morning I decided it was time to compare the Cnat edge against the pasted balsa edge on the other twin T.H-70.

Just to be sure that the balsa edge was in top condition, I put it through a full balsa progression before this morning's shave; 0.5μm, 0.25μm, 0.1μm and 0.1μm hanging. Both blade's were then stropped equally on clean leather and the comparison commenced.

View attachment 1470810
Titan 1918 T.H-70 SRs
Balsa edge LHS (orange ball) and Cnat edge RHS (green ball)
​

The did my normal pre-shave prep and commenced a three-pass shave; WTG, XTG + fool's pass and XTG in the opposite direction. During each pass I swapped the two SRs over between the LHS of my face and the RHS.

The results surprised me. WTG and both XTG passes were almost equal in shaving closeness with the two, the Cnat edge being noticeably more comfortable on the skin. The fool's pass showed a difference. The balsa edge was just a little more closer and easier to use in this ATG on the upper lip.

My verdict is that the Cnat edge can give the same shave result as the balsa edge with more comfort. The balsa edge is preferred for tough ATG shaving. I never thought that a natural edge could get close to a diamond pasted balsa edge. I was wrong.

In a few days time, I will do another Cnat/balsa edge comparison using two identical Gold Dollar W59 SRs. These SRs are of softer steel and have a much more acute bevel angle. If I get the same or better results, I will put a Cnat edge on one of each of my four matching weekend SR sets.

This has been fun and has taken my honing knowledge up to another level.

aye....the stones they are a callin'

camo

 

[Titleist]

You'll never get as sharp as a film edge or balsa (200k) from a natural but you're aiming for comfort now and overall keeness.

This is exactly I ended my personal experimental use of the pasted balsa strop. I found the edges sharp yes, but not at all in the same league of comfortable that I can yield on my JNAT progression. I concur with your sentiment that at least for the duration of the experiment, the pasted balsa after each shave should cease.

 

[rbscebu]

The Gold Dollar W59 shave-off is done!

Before shaving, the Cnat edge was given 30 very light laps with a drop of detergent added to the water, just to make sure.

Normal prep and normal three passes; WTG, XTG + fool's pass and XTG in the opposite direction. Swapped blades for each side of my face with each pass.

Black tail is Cnat​

The result was that I just couldn't notice a difference in edge keenness, not even in the fool's pass. The blades' comfort was about equal, maybe the Cnat edge was just a tad more comfortable but that could be just psychosomatic.

Generally I would say that there was no noticeable difference between the diamond pasted balsa edge (including short X strokes) and the Cnat.

@Bevel is wrong. A Cnat finish can match a 0.1μm diamond pasted balsa strop finish in both keenness and comfort.

To conclude my past two weeks of learning and perfecting edges on a Cnat whetstone, I would strongly recommend that you give one of these stones a go as a finisher. It will not break the bank and may really surprise you.

​

I'm a believer. An Adaee Cnat can replace diamond pasted balsa strops. Here endth the first lesson and all is good in the south.

 

[Bevel]

I think you'll find I said sharpness. I specifically put keeness and comfort in the natural category so I'll stand by what I said.

 

[Eben Stone]

I never thought that a natural edge could get close to a diamond pasted balsa edge. I was wrong.

Y'all need to make up your minds and stop rocking the boat. I just recently finished my balsa strops, and now you tell me some fosilized dinosaur poop can shine my edge just as good? All this heresay is unacceptable.

 

[Herrenberg]

Y'all need to make up your minds and stop rocking the boat. I just recently finished my balsa strops, and now you tell me some fosilized dinosaur poop can shine my edge just as good? All this heresay is unacceptable.

A stone edge can shave you as well as a pasted balsa edge. Even a coticule edge, off of the right coticule, can do that. But that sense of absolute sharpness, of a tool that seems to split the atoms of your beard, can only be obtained from the pasted balsa.

I am pretty far along in my stone journey, but it has not kept me from having a number of razors whose shelf label says "Method." I don't think it ever will.

 

[albsat]

Mine is very hard and a slow cutter (compared to my Chinese synthetics). Working from an 8k synthetic, took a lot of work (laps) to get a great edge. Mine does not self-slurry so I had to use a 600 diamond plate to get a slurry.

Did you get the 600 diamond plate from the same seller? I am tempted to get a similar stone + a diamond plate to maintain the edge of a straight razor.

 

[rbscebu]

Did you get the 600 diamond plate from the same seller? I am tempted to get a similar stone + a diamond plate to maintain the edge of a straight razor.

I bought a set of three diamond plates on the local eBay. They were 300, 400 and 600 grit, 150mm x 50mm and about USD 6 for the set including shipping.

​

 

[Mr. Shavington]

If tomorrow I read that the pope has become a hindu it will seem commonplace compared to the content of this thread.