Shave number 6 a real disappointment!

[MartyShaves]

Just had shave number 6 and it was a real disappointment. Razor really felt like it was dragging on my chin. Almost to the point where I felt it could possibly be dangerous. Left my chin really irritated so I abandoned and cleaned up with a DE.

I have ordered a vintage shave ready razor today off eBay and so I will see how sharp that is in comparison. I ordered it off a vendor that restores razors and offers a honing service so he is well 2.4k items sold and 100% feedback so I should be in good hands.

I’m hoping that this razor will be a world apart from the new TI I purchased which was apparently sent out shave ready. Attached is both my new TI and the vintage razor on order.

I‘ve no reason to doubt that my TI wasn’t shave ready when I got it as I seem to remember the first time thinking how sharp it seemed. Maybe my stropping technique is causing the issue.

so my thoughts are to wait for the vintage razor to arrive and hope it feels much sharper. If it does I shall then try and bring the blunter TI back to life with chromium oxide on a cotton strop then leather. If I fail at that then I shall send the TI out to the person I bought the vintage razor off for sharpening.

In the meantime I shall try and keep on top of the vintage razor with stropping only, then when I’m not happy take it to the chromium oxide. it’s hard to judge if my stropping is causing any issues. I may take it to the local Turkish barber I use and ask him if he is good with a strop. He said he learnt to shave with a cut throat age 13 when he didn’t even need to shave as his dad was a barber. Don’t know if he will still have the skill though as in the UK you can only use shavettes in barbers shops.

Any ideas what route I should go down or am I thinking correctly?

 

[Herrenberg]

An unfortunate thing about learning to shave with a straight razor is that it would be ideal to get good at a whole bunch of things at once: shaving technique, honing, stropping.

6 shaves is just about exactly where I started getting unacceptable behavior using stropping only, early in my shave journey. Now I could go much much longer, though I choose not to, because I like honing and fresh edges. The reason is shave angle. High shave angles take tiny divots out of the edge, which can be seen under the microscope. Get enough of those, and your shave gets uncomfortable. Get a big one, or a few together in a spot, and you get tugging. Any tugging is, to me, a sign that it's time to stop shaving with that edge, and fix it.

It took me a long time to train myself to make my shave angle consistently low in all the places I shave, especially the tricky places.

In the meantime, I can only suggest persistence. It gets a lot better a ways down the road you are on.

 

[rbscebu]

The two most common ways to deteriorate a SR edge by beginners is a too higher shave angle and incorrect stropping technique. Reading and following the instructions should help alleviate this deterioration.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Welcome, Marty!

Your experience is not unexpected. Learning to shave with a straight takes practice plus you need a good edge.

If you are in the US, I would send one of your razors to @Doc226 for expert honing. You will then have one excellent edge to use and to compare your other edges to.

Over the long haul, you will need a method for maintaining your edges using diamond paste on balsa, lapping film, a synthetic finishing stone or a natural finishing stone. There are plenty of threads on this topic.

This is all part of the journey. Fasten your seat belt and enjoy the ride!

 

[Seelector]

There’s a good chance tour TI wasn’t actually shave ready. There’s sharp and then there’s shave ready sharp.

It likely needs to be sent out for honing (ideal) or you can buy lapping film or a finishing stone and do it yourself. I say it’s ideal to send it to a honemeister because it’s tough to learn to hone and shave at the same time.

You’ve got a good plan waiting for your Gotta 120 to arrive. If it’s truly shave ready you should instantly notice a night and day difference to the TI.

There are a fair number of UK users who can probably recommend a local honemeister if your eBay guy isn’t up to the job.

 

[MartyShaves]

The two most common ways to deteriorate a SR edge by beginners is a too higher shave angle and incorrect stropping technique. Reading and following the instructions should help alleviate this deterioration.

I'm probably guilty of both of those crimes!

 

[MurderousCrow]

Well done for persisting, and welcome to the brotherhood!

As Herrenberg points out, beginning SR shaving is a challenge because of the need to simultaneously acquire different skill sets. I would classify these into three main variables: stropping & honing, lathering & shaving. My standard advice for SR beginners: buy a Feather AC or an AC clone. When you use a new AC blade, you're eliminating one of the three variables - you know for certain that the edge is not at fault. So any irritation is down to poor lathering, poor shaving or a combination of both.

The technique for shaving with an AC razor is similar enough to translate directly and easily to SR shaving, and you will likely enjoy your Thiers Issard more once you're confident in its edge, and your abilities in lathering and shaving. True shave-ready SRs are a genuine joy to use, and more forgiving than AC razors and other shavettes.

You don't need to spend loads on an AC razor, the clones can be bought for just a few quid.

 

[MartyShaves]

Well done for persisting, and welcome to the brotherhood!

As Herrenberg points out, beginning SR shaving is a challenge because of the need to simultaneously acquire different skill sets. I would classify these into three main variables: stropping & honing, lathering & shaving. My standard advice for SR beginners: buy a Feather AC or an AC clone. When you use a new AC blade, you're eliminating one of the three variables - you know for certain that the edge is not at fault. So any irritation is down to poor lathering, poor shaving or a combination of both.

The technique for shaving with an AC razor is similar enough to translate directly and easily to SR shaving, and you will likely enjoy your Thiers Issard more once you're confident in its edge, and your abilities in lathering and shaving. True shave-ready SRs are a genuine joy to use, and more forgiving than AC razors and other shavettes.

You don't need to spend loads on an AC razor, the clones can be bought for just a few quid.

Thanks for the advice, you’ve got me looking at AC razors now. does AC stand for artists club? They’re not cheap for the genuine item. I’m awaiting a delivery of two vintage straights both shave ready. It they are truly shave ready I’m sending my TI back to him for honing. I do like the idea of the AC but I’m hoping these two razors will allow me to understand what shave ready really is. If not I will go for an AC.

Thanks again

 

[Robert Anderson]

This was my first AC type razor. Works fine, seems to be well made, and comes with some no name blades that worked ok.

Folding Straight Razors for Barbers | ShearsDirect

 

[MurderousCrow]

Thanks for the advice, you’ve got me looking at AC razors now. does AC stand for artists club? They’re not cheap for the genuine item. I’m awaiting a delivery of two vintage straights both shave ready. It they are truly shave ready I’m sending my TI back to him for honing. I do like the idea of the AC but I’m hoping these two razors will allow me to understand what shave ready really is. If not I will go for an AC.

Thanks again

I see where you're coming from, but learning how to strop and shave well (so as not to compromise your shave-ready edge) takes time.

Let's say you want to use your AC razor twice a week, with the other shaves done on your SRs. Now you want to be dead certain the edge is good, so let's say you only use a blade two or three times before retiring it.

20 notes for a clone razor, 10 for a pack of twenty blades sees you right for around 4-6 months of this. Plenty of time to get really good at stropping, lathering and shaving, and perhaps even learning 'The Method' - the cheapest and probably the most effective way to hone an SR.

Yes, AC is short for Artists Club. This is the type of blade they use. Feather, Proline, Schick and Kai all make blades of this type. AC blades are a little tougher and perhaps a little sharper than DE blades. In skilled hands they typically last between 6-12 shaves.

Edit to add: there are very, very few sellers that send out genuinely shave-ready razors. Unless the seller is one known on this forum to do so, you would be much better off doing a search for honemeisters on here and dropping a PM to members who can help. From what I've read the various honemeisters here on B&B are highly dependable and reasonable in their pricing.

 

[Lord NSIC]

I purchased a TI Le Grolet when I was in France back in November with a "fresh from the factory" edge. Looking at the edge with a loupe it looked toothy and dull (the edge didn't have a mirror polished appearance), and that was reinforced via a shave straight out of the box and after a few stroppings so I sent it off for geometry correction, bevel set and honing. The thought of having to send it out after spending $$ on a new razor only to have it not able to perform right out of the box was tough but it had to be done. After it was sorted out, it's one of my favorite shaving razors, but out of the box, not so much. If I bought another TI, I doubt I'd even bother stropping it or trying a shave and just send it off.

 

[Biltong & Boerewors]

I am in the UK in Scotland and will be happy to help. Let's see when you get the vintage razor, if you are happy with the result.

TI's are not my favourites, I get better shaves of a Gold Dollar, but hey, TI's are very beautiful, well-made razors. It's a question of preference. Doesn't stop me from owning four TI's.

"Shave ready" is a relative term. What some would call shave ready, others will not be satisfied with. I like them plenty sharp, balsa pasted to .1 micron sharp. It's not for everyone, but in my experience sharper is easier when you start. As your technique improve you will be able to get a good shave of a lesser edge.

If you still struggle with the vintages, give me a shout and we can see what we can do.

 

[PintoPlain]

As has previously been mentioned, a steep shaving angle and bad stropping can dull an edge. Fortunately both of these issues should resolve with practice.

If you decide to go with CrOx on cotton, the extra abrasive can either help or rapidly ruin the edge. I'm not going to let on how I know this, but the abrasive on a strop that isn't taut enough will round the edge. I personally prefer the diamond balsa option.

Good luck with your shaves and remember that learning to use a straight takes time, patience and perseverance.

 

[MartyShaves]

As has previously been mentioned, a steep shaving angle and bad stropping can dull an edge. Fortunately both of these issues should resolve with practice.

If you decide to go with CrOx on cotton, the extra abrasive can either help or rapidly ruin the edge. I'm not going to let on how I know this, but the abrasive on a strop that isn't taut enough will round the edge. I personally prefer the diamond balsa option.

Good luck with your shaves and remember that learning to use a straight takes time, patience and perseverance.

I wish I had gone down the balsa route but I have already invested in a cotton strop. I need to get my stropping skills up so maybe not a bad thing.

 

[Slash McCoy]

One does have to begin somewhere, and on the face of it, it would seem that learning to make it sharp, then learning to strop, and finally learning to shave, is the logical route, but that is actually backwards. You must know what a good shave is like and what a good edge looks and feels like, first, and so you are in a chicken-first or egg-first situation. Finding that initial shave ready razor can be difficult, and how do you know it is shave ready, even after you receive it? The real test of shave readiness is the shave test, but this requires that you first be skilled at shaving. There are various sharpness tests that do not tell the story as well as a good shave, but are better than nothing. I use this way, even though I am quite capable of giving myself a good shave. The HHT is another test that is popular. Even though these tests are a but subjective and results vary somewhat with hair texture and technique, they are better than nothing. If a razor treetops at 1/4" above the skin, it is definitely sharp enough for shaving. These tests do not directly address comfort, of course, but one thing at a time. Let it be sharp, and you should be able to learn to shave with it.

One good thing about being connected with a forum like this one is it is much easier to procure a shave ready razor that actually is true shave ready, and not just internet shave ready. Properly armed with a sharp razor, you can then learn to shave and strop, which unfortunately pits two wild cards against one another, but it's better than also not knowing if your razor is sharp enough or not to begin with. The biggest issue with new straight shavers is angle. The shave angle must be flat enough that you are shaving, and not scraping. The normal shave angle is where the gap between face and spine is equal to one spine thickness, as a general rule, for most edges. With extremely sharp edges, about a half spine thickness. Stropping technique also matters, of course. You need a decent, but not necessarily top quality or top price strop. It should be somewhat supple and flexible, and be clean, and never have had any abrasive pastes applied to it. Always, at the end of the stroke, lift the EDGE up off the strop, but not the spine. Flip the EDGE up and over, to change directions, ideally after you have already began the return stroke. Keep that spine on the strop. If you lift the spine off the strop and the edge is on the strop, you are rolling the edge, even if only slightly so. This severely impacts the shave quality.

I do not favor the use of abrasives on hanging, flexible strops such as a linen component, nor on leather paddle strops, and CrOx and FeOx are yesterday's news. That stuff does work, sort of, but assuming you begin with a great edge, you can get far better results with a three stage progression of lapped and diamond pasted balsa, if you set them up and use them properly. After running the whole progression a time or two, using only the .1µ balsa after every shave can keep your razor sharp essentially forever. I most strongly suggest that you read the entire thread beginning to end, before you buy anything. Some spoilers:
1. The balsa will not make an edge sharp. It will make a sharp edge a lot sharper, and can maintain indefinitely.
2. Most guys put way too much paste on the balsa. If it looks about right, you have about 3x too much.
3. The balsa must be lapped, and secured to a non warping, non flexing, back, for a total thickness of an inch or more.
4. The balsa itself should not be over about 1/4" thick.
5. Lapping the balsa is essential.
6. Holding the balsa in hand is MUCH to be preferred over resting it on a fixed surface.
7. Lots of laps with extremely light pressure is the way to go. The easy way to regulate pressure is to hold the balsa in hand, and in the vertical position.
8. I forgot... after applying paste, wipe the surface of the balsa clean with an old tshirt, to remove any coating of paste. You want the diamond to all be embedded in the balsa, not rolling and scooting around on the surface in a coating.

But like I said, read the entire thread or you will miss something, and then you will wonder why that stupid Slash McCoy talked you into wasting time and money on something that really doesn't work all that well at all. The fact is, if you do this right, it works quite well indeed.

Once your razor is dull, the balsa alone will not bring it back. You will need a natural (with a steep learning curve), or a 12k synthetic like the Naniwa Superstone, or 1µ 3M type 261x plain (not PSA, i.e. not sticky back) lapping film and a 1" or thicker piece of acrylic from TAP Plastics, 3" x 12". The Lapping Film thread tells all. Again, read the whole thread. However for your first go or two, you might well be best off sending your razor out for edge refreshing. Never trust anyone who does not shave his face daily with a straight razor, to hone yours! So no, not some knife guy. Definitely not a woman who does not shave her face at all. Not somebody nobody here has ever heard of. A forum member should be first choice, and if not that, someone that multiple forum members recommends. Doesn't have to be this forum, necessarily, but must be an established forum that is not just a place for one or more vendors to hawk their wares. A forum like this places a high premium on reputation, and you only get and keep a good rep by delivering high quality edges with reasonable consistency, and standing behind your work.

 

[RayClem]

No matter how well I hone and strop my razor (including polishing the edge with pasted strops), I can never get more than 5-6 good shaves before I need to do some refreshing of the edge. Some guys use pasted strops to refresh the edge after every shave to keep the razor sharp and smooth. Similarly, I only get 3-4 shave on a DE blade. Some guys can use a single blade for weeks, or even months.

 

[MartyShaves]

One does have to begin somewhere, and on the face of it, it would seem that learning to make it sharp, then learning to strop, and finally learning to shave, is the logical route, but that is actually backwards. You must know what a good shave is like and what a good edge looks and feels like, first, and so you are in a chicken-first or egg-first situation. Finding that initial shave ready razor can be difficult, and how do you know it is shave ready, even after you receive it? The real test of shave readiness is the shave test, but this requires that you first be skilled at shaving. There are various sharpness tests that do not tell the story as well as a good shave, but are better than nothing. I use this way, even though I am quite capable of giving myself a good shave. The HHT is another test that is popular. Even though these tests are a but subjective and results vary somewhat with hair texture and technique, they are better than nothing. If a razor treetops at 1/4" above the skin, it is definitely sharp enough for shaving. These tests do not directly address comfort, of course, but one thing at a time. Let it be sharp, and you should be able to learn to shave with it.

One good thing about being connected with a forum like this one is it is much easier to procure a shave ready razor that actually is true shave ready, and not just internet shave ready. Properly armed with a sharp razor, you can then learn to shave and strop, which unfortunately pits two wild cards against one another, but it's better than also not knowing if your razor is sharp enough or not to begin with. The biggest issue with new straight shavers is angle. The shave angle must be flat enough that you are shaving, and not scraping. The normal shave angle is where the gap between face and spine is equal to one spine thickness, as a general rule, for most edges. With extremely sharp edges, about a half spine thickness. Stropping technique also matters, of course. You need a decent, but not necessarily top quality or top price strop. It should be somewhat supple and flexible, and be clean, and never have had any abrasive pastes applied to it. Always, at the end of the stroke, lift the EDGE up off the strop, but not the spine. Flip the EDGE up and over, to change directions, ideally after you have already began the return stroke. Keep that spine on the strop. If you lift the spine off the strop and the edge is on the strop, you are rolling the edge, even if only slightly so. This severely impacts the shave quality.

I do not favor the use of abrasives on hanging, flexible strops such as a linen component, nor on leather paddle strops, and CrOx and FeOx are yesterday's news. That stuff does work, sort of, but assuming you begin with a great edge, you can get far better results with a three stage progression of lapped and diamond pasted balsa, if you set them up and use them properly. After running the whole progression a time or two, using only the .1µ balsa after every shave can keep your razor sharp essentially forever. I most strongly suggest that you read the entire thread beginning to end, before you buy anything. Some spoilers:
1. The balsa will not make an edge sharp. It will make a sharp edge a lot sharper, and can maintain indefinitely.
2. Most guys put way too much paste on the balsa. If it looks about right, you have about 3x too much.
3. The balsa must be lapped, and secured to a non warping, non flexing, back, for a total thickness of an inch or more.
4. The balsa itself should not be over about 1/4" thick.
5. Lapping the balsa is essential.
6. Holding the balsa in hand is MUCH to be preferred over resting it on a fixed surface.
7. Lots of laps with extremely light pressure is the way to go. The easy way to regulate pressure is to hold the balsa in hand, and in the vertical position.
8. I forgot... after applying paste, wipe the surface of the balsa clean with an old tshirt, to remove any coating of paste. You want the diamond to all be embedded in the balsa, not rolling and scooting around on the surface in a coating.

But like I said, read the entire thread or you will miss something, and then you will wonder why that stupid Slash McCoy talked you into wasting time and money on something that really doesn't work all that well at all. The fact is, if you do this right, it works quite well indeed.

Once your razor is dull, the balsa alone will not bring it back. You will need a natural (with a steep learning curve), or a 12k synthetic like the Naniwa Superstone, or 1µ 3M type 261x plain (not PSA, i.e. not sticky back) lapping film and a 1" or thicker piece of acrylic from TAP Plastics, 3" x 12". The Lapping Film thread tells all. Again, read the whole thread. However for your first go or two, you might well be best off sending your razor out for edge refreshing. Never trust anyone who does not shave his face daily with a straight razor, to hone yours! So no, not some knife guy. Definitely not a woman who does not shave her face at all. Not somebody nobody here has ever heard of. A forum member should be first choice, and if not that, someone that multiple forum members recommends. Doesn't have to be this forum, necessarily, but must be an established forum that is not just a place for one or more vendors to hawk their wares. A forum like this places a high premium on reputation, and you only get and keep a good rep by delivering high quality edges with reasonable consistency, and standing behind your work.

Thanks a lot Slash, lots of useful info and links. I’ve already purchased a cotton strop and chromium oxide but I’m yet to use it. I’m now thinking balsa strop!

 

[Slash McCoy]

No matter how well I hone and strop my razor (including polishing the edge with pasted strops), I can never get more than 5-6 good shaves before I need to do some refreshing of the edge. Some guys use pasted strops to refresh the edge after every shave to keep the razor sharp and smooth. Similarly, I only get 3-4 shave on a DE blade. Some guys can use a single blade for weeks, or even months.

There are pasted strops, and then again, there are pasted strops. There is pasted "stropping", (technically honing, since controlled abrasive removal of steel is involved) and then again there is pasted "stropping". Are you following "The Method", exactly, in every detail? Following it dogmatically and unquestionably, works much better than random technique. Also, you might re-evaluate your shave angle and skin stretching. I will assume you are already hydrating your whiskers to the point of diminishing returns.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Thanks a lot Slash, lots of useful info and links. I’ve already purchased a cotton strop and chromium oxide but I’m yet to use it. I’m now thinking balsa strop!

Don't think one. Think three. The pasted balsa thread explains all.

 

[JaggardJ]

@MartyShaves I hope the Gotta works out better for you. They really are a nice razor.