Sharp makes sense, but what is smooth?

[JCarr]

For me, most blades are fairly smooth. A few I have feel exceptionally smooth. But as many have already said, it's more than likely a combination of razor and blade. For me, smooth is a term that details how easy or effortless a blade feels when shaving with it. It's like, when I down a shot of Proper 12...it's like drinking water that has the taste of Irish whiskey...no sting...no bite...no cough...no recoil...no grimace...just delicious and warming.

I've only had a very bad experience with one blade...and the bad experience repeated itself on two other attempts with a fresh blade of the same kind. And that blade was the Bic Chrome Platinum. For me, it neither feels sharp nor smooth, but instead it tries to tug the whiskers from my face and neck.

 

[EclipseRedRing]

Maybe it is a bit like 'cushion' or 'efficient' - i.e. meaningless nonsense designed to turn the simple into the esoteric

 

[Dobric]

If it tugs your hair it's a dull blade.
If it scrapes your skin, it's a rough blade
Feather scrapes my skin, nacet doesen't

 

[NorthernSoul]

I think smoothness means the level of shaving comfort with that blade. A blade only needs to be sharp enough to cut the hair, so once that aspect is taken care of, the comfort factors become more important.

Blade makers discovered that customers perceived a blade that had less friction as better.

 

[deafficianado]

It’s the coating that blade manufacturers place that determines how smooth the blade is. When a blade just glides along the skin slicing stubble without discomfort, -it’s smooth.

 

[Dobric]

It’s the coating that blade manufacturers place that determines how smooth the blade is. When a blade just glides along the skin slicing stubble without discomfort, -it’s smooth.

I think coating is there to easier remove gunk and soap when you rinse it

 

[deafficianado]

I think coating is there to easier remove gunk and soap when you rinse it

I believe that manufactures apply a coating on the blade edge because it “decreases the friction of the blade surface and strengthen the cutting edge against premature wear”.

 

[spacemonkey42]

I've heard lots of folks talk about the coating as what makes a blade smooth, that is sometimes followed by talk of blades like Voskhod. That is what adds to my thinking that smoothness is subjective and a combination of many factors (your razor, soap, blade, whiskers, etc.). Voskhod is dull and rough to me. I've tried to use them a few times and they have been tuggy and rough.

I'm just saying that sharpness is intrinsic to the blade and smoothness is due to many factors and isn't inherent to the blade. A sharp blade is sharp no matter the razor, a smooth blade may be smooth in some circumstances and not in others.

 

[NorthernSoul]

I'm just saying that sharpness is intrinsic to the blade and smoothness is due to many factors and isn't inherent to the blade. A sharp blade is sharp no matter the razor, a smooth blade may be smooth in some circumstances and not in others.

When manufacturers first experimented with stainless steel blades, customers did not like them because they were uncomfortable to shave with. PTFE (Teflon) coatings applied to the blade changed everything. Customers liked the new stainless steel blades because of their many advantages, and found the comfort acceptable.

Teflon is sprayed onto the blade and baked on to make it adhere. That is inherent in the blade.

Comfort is subjective, but obviously the properties of the blade do make a difference.

 

[Java]

A serrated knife can be sharp but not smooth. A butter knife can be smooth but not sharp. A great razor blade combines these two not necessarily related characteristics.

Even in context that doesn't make sense to me, but I especially don't see how this translates to shaving.

 

[velocityboy]

Even in context that doesn't make sense to me, but I especially don't see how this translates to shaving.

I was comparing a microscopically rough razor blade edge to a serrated knife. Both can be sharp and cut easily but the jagged (relatively speaking) razor blade will obviously feel rougher on the skin than a blade that has a more perfectly smooth AND sharp edge.

 

[Lazarus Long]

My definitions: If the Alum block stings after a shave, it wasn't smooth. It I don't get a close shave around the chin, it wasn't sharp.

Going with that:
smooth and sharp: Voskhod, Treet Durasharp, Treet Classic
smooth but not sharp: Lord Platinum, Gillette Platinum, Treet Platinum, Shark Stainless
sharp but not so smooth: Persona Platinum Chrome, Treet Falcon
Neither sharp nor smooth: Astra SS/SP, Derby Extra, Derby Premium

 

[Ckmaui]

I do not know really lots of theories this is like asking what is spicy since everyone has dif interpretations its impossible to say from one person to the other only what we sense

I break mine into two parts the while shaving or cutting and the post feel with some overlap

During sharp is how it cuts without tugging and or the force or feeling of cutting clean
smooth less resistance etc.. a blade that cuts easily is of course smooth when cutting some have no resistance but you can feel the burn a tiny touch like micro edges abrading cutting the skin a touch I think if examined a rough sharp like a serrated knife could be while they can cut some things they are bad for others dull of course just does not cut well

the post is how it feels post shave of course I can have a blade that is duller and tugs a bit but leaves no burn in post with splash hitting it or one that cuts clean but leaves more sting ?

Of course what I look for is the blades that cut super easy clean glide during and leave no sting in post

After seeing many blades under a microscope I need to go back and see the blades I like these days

Of course how the razor holds the blade and the angle to the face matters as certain razors for sure do make some blades good and vice versa and of course some blades seem to do well in almost all razors but for me are never the best in any one razor

to me blades alone impossible to say only blades for certain razors or the pairing work for me

 

[spacemonkey42]

I am not sure that many would think of Voskhod or Treet as sharp. Voskhod are too dull for my whiskers. I've heard most call them medium sharpness and "smooth"

 

[Lazarus Long]

I am not sure that many would think of Voskhod or Treet as sharp. Voskhod are too dull for my whiskers. I've heard most call them medium sharpness and "smooth"

According to the sharpologist sharpness tests, Voskhod is both sharper than average and one of the most consistently sharp from shave to shave blades out available. My own experiences are consistent with that. It has performed far better (for me) than most of the highly touted blades here. I never got around to trying Nacet, but from the chart it looks like it could be a good one too. I have fine whiskers, so I don't need the very sharpest blade, but I definitely don't like it dull.

The Treet Black Beauty is the one I often see referred to as dull. I've never used it, so have no opinion on it. I don't recall anyone labeling the Durasharp as dull though.

I've settled on a few favorites though, so I quit my blade search a while ago.

 

[Mike Williams]

When manufacturers first experimented with stainless steel blades, customers did not like them because they were uncomfortable to shave with. PTFE (Teflon) coatings applied to the blade changed everything. Customers liked the new stainless steel blades because of their many advantages, and found the comfort acceptable.

Teflon is sprayed onto the blade and baked on to make it adhere. That is inherent in the blade.

Comfort is subjective, but obviously the properties of the blade do make a difference.

What about blades like the Gillette 7 o'clock Super Stainless, in the green package? I have found them comfortable to shave with, and I know quite a few other people do too. I've also read that the coatings like Teflon and Platinum wear off quickly after a few shaves. Not an issue to me, I discard the blade after 3-4 shaves anyway.

 

[NorthernSoul]

What about blades like the Gillette 7 o'clock Super Stainless, in the green package? I have found them comfortable to shave with, and I know quite a few other people do too. I've also read that the coatings like Teflon and Platinum wear off quickly after a few shaves. Not an issue to me, I discard the blade after 3-4 shaves anyway.

I was thinking more about the early stainless steel blades, which came out in the early 1960s. All the blades got some type of coating, even back then.

The coatings don't wear away completely so easily. They wear at the edge first, but I think there is still enough to reduce friction and strengthen the edge beyond four shaves.

 

[Mike Williams]

I was thinking more about the early stainless steel blades, which came out in the early 1960s. All the blades got some type of coating, even back then.

The coatings don't wear away completely so easily. They wear at the edge first, but I think there is still enough to reduce friction and strengthen the edge beyond four shaves.

That's encouraging, thanks for the info.

 

[geneaut]

"Smooth" to me is much more a description of the perceived comfort level I experience from a specific shave and is actually an amalgamation of a lot of factors. I can often ( not necessarily always ) vary the 'smoothness' of a specific shave by changing a number of the non-blade-related factors.

 

[Jens]

This is a really excellent thread and question, thanks for starting it..!! It relates closely to one I started just over a hear ago (here), but I think the way you frame the topic here is a better point of departure for discussion and reflection.
In the thread I started (linked above), I solicited thoughts on what I conceived of then as "the joy of dull blades". Several BB members suggested in reply that what I called "dull" was a misnomer, what I really meant was (probably) "smooth". By now i Partly agree, but only partly. But the point I think is more important, which you excellently make here, is that smooth indeed is a matter of subjective experience.

I will give two concrete examples of how I think about the matter these days, though I emphasize that I more and more realize that shaving remains an unfolding adventure.
1): some of the "smooth" blades I enjoy, seem to "dull" faster than others. In that way, I have come to realize that it makes sense to distinguish between smooth and dull. For example, for me a Treat Carbon ("black beauty") is a very smooth blade, but I can only shave once with it, I toss it after just one shave. If I try for a second shave with the same blade, I have to go over my skin so many times before I am close to BBS that I easily get a razor burn. For the price of these blades, it's just not worth it.
I also find a Derby Extra blade very smooth, but I can use it more than once. I still often toss it after just one use, but I can use it twice or three times before it starts feeling downright "dull" so that I have to go over my skin more times to get a BBS shave.
2): the other trope in terms of which I think about smoothness is from straight razor honing. In short, I do both DE and straight razor shaving, and I find that the big challenge with straights is the honing. But I have enough experience to know that you get a very different edge from finishing on Japanese artificial stones, as opposed to finishing on a Belgian coticule. The Japanese artificial stones can give you a super sharp but not necessarily a very smooth edge. With a Coticule its the other way around: you typically don't get a super sharp edge (at least I can't make one), but you can get a wonderfully smooth edge. Exactly what goes on in the micro-cosmos of stone V steel that produces these different edges, I don't know, but it makes a lot of sense that the outcome is different depending what materials you use.

As a concluding thought, I can say that as I have become a more experienced wetshaver, I have come to value smoothness more over sharpness. Earlier on, I thought " the sharper the better". It helped me develop my technique, but in terms of both shaving pleasure and post shave result, I now think smoothness is more important than "sharp".

A final remark: I agree that sharpness can (probably) be measured "objectively" in some way. But I doubt that there is a direct relation between "objective" sharpness and "experienced" sharpness. My example in this regard is the Feather blade. You read here and there and everywhere about the famed sharpness of this blade. I don't know how it measures out scientifically, but in my experience Feather is not a particularly sharp blade. I don't think it is a very smooth (pleasant) blade either. In fact Feather is probably one of my biggest dissappointments as far as blades go. Yet, it is not that I am numb to sharpness, if I can put it that way. One of my favourite "sharp" blades is the Personna Med Prep blade, which by all accounts, AND in my experience, is a very "sharp" blade. I also find it a very durable blade, I can easily use it 3 or 4 times before I toss it (it has also become ridiculously expensive though). But because it is so sharp, I find I have to be more careful than I care to be, to avoid nicks. So in sum, while the med prep is an enjoyable blade, I rarely use it.