To be honest, this thread has peaked my curiosity and I went ahead and ordered the 16k yesterday.
Shapton glass HR 16k
- Thread starter gary haywood
- Start date
I was wondering the exact same thing.
I'm going to take a slightly different perspective on this: the way that Howard S uses the Shapton 16k is vastly different from how Gamma uses it but it's a useful data point. If neither of them has had problems with edge chipping it says a lot about the way the stone performs.
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Shave off a synth edge? Ewwww. No. Gross.
I just wanted to share the video as it seemed relevant to your question. I have no gripes with Shapton other than their proprietary grit rating.
Shave off a synth edge? Ewwww. No. Gross.
I just wanted to share the video as it seemed relevant to your question. I have no gripes with Shapton other than their proprietary grit rating.
I've had the GS7 versions for 3 years. Had the full size plates for at least 2 years before that. Done a lot of blades on them, didn't have any agenda past comparing them to some other stuff I was working on. Was just my own personal/private thing and a lot of steel went over those stones without issues.
Kelbro used the 16k for a long time, also no issues. Lynn Abrams used the 16k/30k stones also. Many many many people who were known to hone well, used them without ruining their edges. From my perspective, the number of people who got along just fine with the 16k is so significantly greater than the couple/few claiming it damages edges, that there's no point in continuing to flog that seriously dead horse.
I have discussed the 16k and 30k stones with dozens of users that also had no issues.
Since this mess started back in what, 2010-ish, I haven't seen any legit or convincing 'evidence' that shows me the stones are at fault.
The length and depth of my own experiences tells me something else is at play here. For what it's worth, every single edge I put together with those stones was super simple and very straightforward. Simple honing, no fancy parlor tricks - just 1k, 5k, 8k, 16k, 30k - done. Worked every time. I will say though, that the 16k must see a very well done edge. And minimal laps will leave a smoother edge. "Needing more laps' on that stone means the previous work wasn't done well enough. It's fussy, somewhat annoyingly so.
Someone telling me their edges chip on that stone, I think they need to hone better. I mean, I suppose someone could have an overcooked stone that causes damage, but I'd bet a dollar that the stone in question would work fine for me here. It's just like the ninnies railing about pasted linens causing bevel to be too convex. Sure, if you use it wrong you can do that but just because there is a hanging linen with abrasive that doesn't mean the bevel has to develop a too-convex profile. Just use it correctly and all is well. Same concept with the 16k...
Honestly though, I'd change the progression; leave the 16k out. Jump from the 10k GS to the 30k. I like that better.
Kelbro used the 16k for a long time, also no issues. Lynn Abrams used the 16k/30k stones also. Many many many people who were known to hone well, used them without ruining their edges. From my perspective, the number of people who got along just fine with the 16k is so significantly greater than the couple/few claiming it damages edges, that there's no point in continuing to flog that seriously dead horse.
I have discussed the 16k and 30k stones with dozens of users that also had no issues.
Since this mess started back in what, 2010-ish, I haven't seen any legit or convincing 'evidence' that shows me the stones are at fault.
The length and depth of my own experiences tells me something else is at play here. For what it's worth, every single edge I put together with those stones was super simple and very straightforward. Simple honing, no fancy parlor tricks - just 1k, 5k, 8k, 16k, 30k - done. Worked every time. I will say though, that the 16k must see a very well done edge. And minimal laps will leave a smoother edge. "Needing more laps' on that stone means the previous work wasn't done well enough. It's fussy, somewhat annoyingly so.
Someone telling me their edges chip on that stone, I think they need to hone better. I mean, I suppose someone could have an overcooked stone that causes damage, but I'd bet a dollar that the stone in question would work fine for me here. It's just like the ninnies railing about pasted linens causing bevel to be too convex. Sure, if you use it wrong you can do that but just because there is a hanging linen with abrasive that doesn't mean the bevel has to develop a too-convex profile. Just use it correctly and all is well. Same concept with the 16k...
Honestly though, I'd change the progression; leave the 16k out. Jump from the 10k GS to the 30k. I like that better.
I tend to think if the steel is good, if people are chipping edges on fine hones it is because they didn't successfully delete what came before as far as the early work goes...
Is the 16k glass half full or half empty? 
The full size Shapton HR 16k is way less expensive than the 30k. You can currently get a 16k for less than a Naniwa 12k - and the 30k is more than three times the price of the 16k.
Has the 16k always been this affordable?
The 30k Glass and Pro have always been priced high.
The 16k GS was always much less expensive. Same for the 15k Pro, which is identical to the 12k Kuro.
But I don't recall the exact pricing structure or comparisons to other competing options.
I remember seeing a lot of lower priced Shapton GS on auction and bargain sites being shipped out of China, which raises my eyebrow and makes me wonder how and why that could happen.
I'm not really a fan of the 16k, it's too fussy and superfluous when the 10k is available. It's just that I've used it without suffering damaged edges. Plus, I think it is funny that there are still people trying to run with this storyline even though there are sooo many people who use it and have used it without issue. As if a YT video somehow proves what all of those people experienced didn't happen.
I prefer the 10k for that jump spot. I don't use their 8k so I am usually coming from the 6k and I use the HC version. FWIW, their 8k HR is just fine for razors, quite good actually, but Shapton only recommends the 8000 HC for razors now. I don't know why and don't care because I am used to Shapton saying stuff I don't agree with.
I wonder if someone is going to make a video showing the 8k HR chipping blades now....
The 16k GS was always much less expensive. Same for the 15k Pro, which is identical to the 12k Kuro.
But I don't recall the exact pricing structure or comparisons to other competing options.
I remember seeing a lot of lower priced Shapton GS on auction and bargain sites being shipped out of China, which raises my eyebrow and makes me wonder how and why that could happen.
I'm not really a fan of the 16k, it's too fussy and superfluous when the 10k is available. It's just that I've used it without suffering damaged edges. Plus, I think it is funny that there are still people trying to run with this storyline even though there are sooo many people who use it and have used it without issue. As if a YT video somehow proves what all of those people experienced didn't happen.
I prefer the 10k for that jump spot. I don't use their 8k so I am usually coming from the 6k and I use the HC version. FWIW, their 8k HR is just fine for razors, quite good actually, but Shapton only recommends the 8000 HC for razors now. I don't know why and don't care because I am used to Shapton saying stuff I don't agree with.
I wonder if someone is going to make a video showing the 8k HR chipping blades now....
10k and 16k can be found for $99 each
This is what I see when I look into the claims. photos, etc. Ian pointed this out pretty well early on.
Perhaps the 16k has some sort of quality that exacerbates the issue...or maybe there are over-ccoked problematic stones, or maybe people are putting GD's with 15° bevels on it and the steel falls apart 'cause that can happen on any number of finishers.
Not sure, don't care, doesn't matter. If someone is chipping something on that stone, fine, whatever. There are plenty of other stones to use.
It might just be the general aggression of the glass stone where you have this particularly eager hone colliding with any given deep scratch terminating at the apex where it would be more tenuous to begin with in that spot and things happen. A lot of people don't stay on the lower midrange and midrange grits nearly long enough to get an edge ready for something that fine.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
There are two different issues/questions being discussed here, 1) whether the Shapton Glass HR 16k is a mixed grit stone, and 2) whether it damages razor edges.
The attachment below is an email from Shapton Japan to a friend of mine in Japan who was inquiring on my behalf about the Shapton Glass HC series. Shapton conformed that the 16k HR has a wider grit distribution and recommended the 8k HC for razors. This should settle the issue about mixed grit in the 16k. That it contains a wider grit distribution doesn’t mean that you can’t get a good shaving edge from it. I’ve removed the recipient’s email and name, but he is an active member here on B&B and can respond if he wishes.
There are different schools of thought about razors being able to take and hold an edge at higher grits, but IMO it’s far more about the steel/temper/bevel angle than the hone.
The attachment below is an email from Shapton Japan to a friend of mine in Japan who was inquiring on my behalf about the Shapton Glass HC series. Shapton conformed that the 16k HR has a wider grit distribution and recommended the 8k HC for razors. This should settle the issue about mixed grit in the 16k. That it contains a wider grit distribution doesn’t mean that you can’t get a good shaving edge from it. I’ve removed the recipient’s email and name, but he is an active member here on B&B and can respond if he wishes.
There are different schools of thought about razors being able to take and hold an edge at higher grits, but IMO it’s far more about the steel/temper/bevel angle than the hone.
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Jende does honing session using the Shapton glass that contradicts everything they say in this chart. They use the 1000,2000 ,4000,6000,8000,16000 and 30,000. The information on how to use what, when to use is all over the place. I don’t know what to use, what information is legitimate. They are so secretive and Naniwa is just as bad. I would love to hear some comments.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
I have almost every Shapton Glass stone under 16k. If you’re looking for consistent advice across the internet on any subject, you won’t get it. You can use all if the Glass Stones for razors. Starting out, i’d recommend one of two sets:
The 3k HR and 10k HR, plus finisher of choice. The 3k, 10k, and 30k HR are what Shapton recommends for razors. 3x steps are what they were designed to do. I use a natural finisher most of the time, but the 20k Gokumyo will save you some money vs the 30k HR and people like it very much, including me.
The 2k HR (bevel setter), 4k HR for light bevel work or refreshing a bevel, the 8k HC, plus the finisher of choice. This is a nice versatile set. You can finish on the 8k HC if you want, the edge is quite good.
Hope this helps.
The 3k HR and 10k HR, plus finisher of choice. The 3k, 10k, and 30k HR are what Shapton recommends for razors. 3x steps are what they were designed to do. I use a natural finisher most of the time, but the 20k Gokumyo will save you some money vs the 30k HR and people like it very much, including me.
The 2k HR (bevel setter), 4k HR for light bevel work or refreshing a bevel, the 8k HC, plus the finisher of choice. This is a nice versatile set. You can finish on the 8k HC if you want, the edge is quite good.
Hope this helps.
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