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Shapton 12k vs Naniwa 12k not really / quick finisher

I have been reading through old posts have come across advice for people new to honing to finish with the Naniwa 12k SS on multiple different posts. I do not necessarily disagree with this recommendation either but was wondering why the Shapton 12k isn't suggested more. The only substantial difference I can find people making note of is the binder/feel of the stone. I have only ever owned the Shapton Pro stones and was thinking about picking up one of the Naniwa stones and wanted to see if anyone has used them both side by side and could enlighten me some. I have been able to achieve acceptable results from a straight Shapton progression, better results with JNATS and my best shaves seem to still come from Arks. The JNAT and Ark options are more then enjoyable to shave with but do require a time investment that is at times more then I want to muster. If I can get better results off the Naniwa then the Shapton as fast as I can on the Shapton that could be useful. I at one time was using pastes but have tried to eliminate them completely as I feel like its cheating I don't know why but I do. Basically I am a lazy old guy, this is as much a hobby as it is personal grooming to me and I do shave everyday with a straight razor and sometimes I just want to bang out an edge I can get away with till I have time to do it properly. Maybe that last sentence should have replaced all the superfluous ramblings before it or maybe I am just trying to justify buying another stone. Well thoughts comments and have a great day everyone.

Thanks Jason
 
I've only finished one razor with a Shapton Pro 12k and normally use a Naniwa 12k for finishing. Judging from that one experience with the 12k pro, I don't consider it as a finisher.

If you're getting good results with your Jnats I don't think that you'll gain anything other than a different experience by getting the Naniwa. Just about any finisher should be fast enough after the Shapton 12k so it's more about edge feel at the finisher level.
 
You should be able to remove 1k stria with a good Jnat with just Diamond slurry in about 50-60 laps and reduce it to a fine finished edge.

The Ark may be a bit more finicky, depending on the stone, Washita or Hard Ark and how it was finished. But any 12k should produce a near mirror bevels that can easily be finished on a hard ark with a 600-grit finish.

A dual grit Hard Ark makes Ark finishing much quicker, 600 on one side, burnished on the other.

Sounds like you have all you need, perfect your 12k edges and bevels and finishing should be cake. Synthetic 12k’s are way more aggressive than folks think.

BTW there is no “Cheating” Git her done, what ever it takes. Learn your stones and perfect your edges to your face and beard.
 
I have both the Shapton 12k and the Naniwa 12k. I no longer use the Shapton 12k, I used to use it after the Shapton 8k but it felt and looked under the microscope to be coarser than the 8k. I have no idea why this should be and I did persevere with using that 12k and lapped it half to death. The thing wouldn't behave though so it is back in the cupboard in the naughty box. There are a few stones in there as I worked on the basis of buying lots and lots of stones and hoping to find some good ones in amongst them.
I like pastes and am very content with cheating. As far as I am concerned it is the truth the whole truth and anything else that works. I have fabric hanging strops and leather hanging strops all pasted with both diamond and Crox and Ferrox also paddle strops the same and one loom strop, Ferrox and the black carbon paste.
 
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My favorite synthetic finishing hone is the 10,000 Naniwa Super Stone Not the 12k… I’ve shaved well off the 12,000 Shapton and it can provided a soft and effective edge/shave too. Actually I prefer it to the Naniwa 12k. I think it’s my skin type or something. But my face just doesn’t like that 12k Super for some reason.
 
My favorite synthetic finishing hone is the 10,000 Naniwa Super Stone Not the 12k… I’ve shaved well off the 12,000 Shapton and it can provided a soft and effective edge/shave too. Actually I prefer it to the Naniwa 12k. I think it’s my skin type or something. But my face just doesn’t like that 12k Super for some reason.

+1, I have the 10k Gouken Kagayaki, very similar to SS but generally cheaper, and it has provided me my very best synthetic shaves. Better than 12k shapton or SS. I would have a very very hard time distinguishing between it and a Thuringian shave. The only issue is it has slightly warped... need to glue it down to a Base soon.
 
Shapton and Naniwa apparently use different systems for evaluating grit levels.

I have a 16K Shapton and I find it produces an edge similar to a 10-12K Naniwa.

The 30K Shapton has a micron level similar to the Suehiro Gokumyo 20K. I have one of the G20Ks and love it.

Based on that data, I would put a 12K Shapton somewhere around 8K according to the system used by Naniwa and Suehiro. While some people can shave off an 8K edge (Shapton 12K), I do not consider it to be a suitable finisher for my beard and face. I can shave off a Shapton 16K, but only after further polishing the edge with pasted strops.
 
Jnats will get you to a shave ready edge much faster than a synthetic honing progression. Post 1k, a proper jnat will erase all scratches in 60 or so laps. Maybe more, but we are talking just a few minutes. As opposed to 1k, 4K, 8k, then 12 k to polish. If you’re looking to save time go with a jnat. If your finding jnat edges take too much time, you might revisit your technique, your stone, whether the stone is dead flat. A loupe will also tell you much about your progress and edge quality.

“Banging out” an acceptable edge as you put it can be done - I do this frequently with my test razors, just to see how little time, or how few laps I can get to shave ready. But might make your honing progress less clear if you’re rushing to get results.

Finally, if you haven’t already, watch some of Alex Gilmore’s videos on YouTube honing with jnats. You’ll see just how quick a proper jnat can erase scratches and get shave ready results.
 
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