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Shall I buy naniwa 12k water stone for straight razor maintenance?

I've seen naniwa 12k mentioned on several youtube videos. It seems to be the standard for maintaining a straight razor.

@Dick peck mentioned it should be enough for me to hone a straight razor on a 12k water stone every month if I just wanted to maintain it and shaved with it everyday.

I have a few questions.
  1. Shall I start with naniwa 12k water stone for straight razor maintenance?
  2. If I didn't shave with a straight razor everyday, how do I know when I should hone a straight razor?
  3. What about DMT diamond bar used for honing various blades?
 
Yes/No/Maybe

It depends on what you are looking for in an edge. I have a Naniwa 12K and it will produce a keen edge on most razors, however, for me the edge is a little harsh on my sensitive skin and needs to be tamed. I often go up to the 10K level on Naniwa hones and then move to a natural stone for finishing. But that is just my preference. You might love a 12K edge. If just depends upon your beard and face. Some folks like synthetics, some like naturals, some like both.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
It is a respected and popular finisher. However, 1u film is cheaper especially if you have only a few razors to hone and don't hone for anybody else. Plus you never have to lap it.

See the sticky thread "Newbie Honing Compendium". There is a link to a thread on the proper use of pasted balsa for edge maintenance. If you start out with a very sharp edge, daily use of .1u diamond on lapped balsa will keep it so. A progression of diamond on balsa after the 12k stone or 1u film will make it so.

If the bevel is not set and the edge not fully developed through at least the 6k-8k stage, that 12k will take a long time to get you there. If you start with a truly shave ready razor, the 12k will work fine. I just think that film and balsa work levels of magnitude better, easier, and cheaper. YMMV. Maybe. If the bevel is not set properly, the 12k will do NOTHING for you.
 
I've seen naniwa 12k mentioned on several youtube videos. It seems to be the standard for maintaining a straight razor.

@Dick peck mentioned it should be enough for me to hone a straight razor on a 12k water stone every month if I just wanted to maintain it and shaved with it everyday.

I have a few questions.
  1. Shall I start with naniwa 12k water stone for straight razor maintenance?
  2. If I didn't shave with a straight razor everyday, how do I know when I should hone a straight razor?
  3. What about DMT diamond bar used for honing various blades?

You'll get 100 opinions based on 100's of experiences or perceptions. I might as well give mine. :) I started with a shavette and thought the blade was always dull. I kept changing the blade. Of course, the blade was not at all dull. My angles were ineffective. So, many feel their razors are not keen, when they are.

A Slash said, films are inexpensive and highly effective in establishing a bevel and maintaining an edge. If this is your only consideration, follow his burr method and you'll be happy if you have the skill necessary to use a SR.

If you are like me and you want a vintage experience, you'll gravitate toward stones. I use a combination of film, coticule and Thuringian followed by horse hide.

Many swear by a 12K stone. How many laps and you honing technique are certainly going to be a factor.

If you strop you SR after use it should not deteriorate unless it rusts while not in use.

I'd follow Slash's advice with diamond paste and balsa over diamond plates. It's been proven to work well and is easy. Follow his video and hold the balsa at a 45 degree angle with no pressure.
 

kelbro

Alfred Spatchcock
Nobody mentioned it but that DMT diamond bar should not get anywhere near a razor. I'm guessing that you are referring to their diamond 'steel'. Great for kitchen knives. Not for razors.
 
  1. What about long-term maintenance cost? Is balsa or film cheaper than water stones in the long run? I mean 10~20 years.
  2. I can understand the gist of using lapping flim as a water stone and using a pasted balsa strop for stropping. However, I don't understand "Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method". The article is long, and there is no video for it.
 
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  1. What about long-term maintenance cost? Is balsa or film cheaper than water stones in the long run? I mean 10~20 years.
  2. I can understand the gist of using lapping flim as a water stone and using a pasted balsa strop for stropping. However, I don't understand "Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method". The article is long, and there is no video for it.

The concept of single sided honing and feeling the burr is discribed in the third and fourth paragraph.
 
  1. What about long-term maintenance cost? Is balsa or film cheaper than water stones in the long run? I mean 10~20 years.
If you are only honing for yourself and aren't damaging your razors, film should definitely be less expensive than a stone. On the other hand, with so little use the stone will still have most of its value, even after 20 years.

It's my understanding that in Europe, pasted strops are much more the norm for periodic maintenance. A pasted strop could maintain a razor indefinitely.

Judging from your question "how do I know when I should hone a straight razor?" and your statement " I don't understand "Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method" you are very inexperienced with straight shaving and sharpening anything. As such, I would recommend getting a true 'shave ready' razor and clean leather and fabric strops and start with that. If you like straight shaving (some people don't!) experiment with pasted strops and maybe get a couple of edges honed on different stones by members here. 1 um Film in the right hands will yield an edge very similar to the Naniwa 12k edge. Do you like that edge?
 
Yes, you should get a Naniwa 12k. It is great stone to start with. It will do what you need it to do.

Then later, when/if you decide to buy lower grit stones and learn to repair and set bevels, you will still have a great finishing stone in the Naniwa. It will also provide a good baseline from which to judge other finishers that you may want to try, such as the naturals.

At least that's how I started and how I've used it.
 
Naniwa 12k is a wonderful finisher/maintenance stone. However for about 1/2 the cost the “New kid on the block”, Arkansas Grey is everything that the Naniwa is and maybe then some. Not as harsh and (in the right hands) capable of creating a great edge. Surely worth a look.
 
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It is a respected and popular finisher. However, 1u film is cheaper especially if you have only a few razors to hone and don't hone for anybody else. Plus you never have to lap it.

This is a good piece of advice. I would start with the 1u film. If you really like it and you think it is what you want to do long-term, then you can get the Naniwa 12k if you are interested in synthetic stones. I personally found that the 1u film and Naniwa 12k give you basically the same kind of edge. For me, this level of keenness is dull/comfortable enough for my skin yet sharp enough to efficiently cut thick stubble without too much fuss.

To me, it seems like the long-term challenge is finding out how keen of a blade that you need. I want the dullest blade possible (for comfort) that gives me a reasonably-efficient shave. Too sharp and I get irritation/cuts and too dull I'll have stubble that takes a lot of passes to cut close. I know there are outliers to this simple relationship but I think this holds for easily-obtainable/usable honing tools in the hands of novices.

The honing experts appear to have found natural stones that they can use to generate very sharp, comfortable edges. In my coticule attempts so far, I never had any luck. I think if I need at least a Japanese 12k equivalent edge, I would need to try other natural stones besides a coticule. But at this point I'm not willing to spend the dollars finding my ideal natural stone. I'm still in the phase of trying to figure out what my keenness requirement is. Currently I think I'm somewhere between 1u and 0.5u and the Naniwa 12k with shaving cream on it or 0.5 CBN on a hanging or balsa strop seems pretty good. As my skill improves I might want something even keener. But then again there are others that rave about 8k. I personally could never live with just 8k and I'd have to hack my chin off to get a close shave.

It is all about your particular hair and skin, so you have to do some investigating while keeping the cost reasonable in the initial exploratory phase. Films are a great way to start, as are pastes.
 
Perhaps, I will start with a used leather strop that Dick peck sent me and a 1u film for learning to hone.

I don't care about stones per se. I care about reducing long-term maintenance cost and getting great shaves out of straight razor. I currently have one straight razor and is going to own two straight razors once the one that Dick peck sent arrives. He sent a straight razor and a used leather strop to my address.

  • If I had a 1u film, do I want or need a (balsa) strop pasted with diamond particles?
  • The following image is of 3M lapping film. For 20 USD, I seem to get a good deal for initial exploratory phase. But, is this going to incur lower long-term maintenance cost than relatively affordable water stones like Arkansas Grey?
    lap-grit-chart-new-z.jpg
 
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  • If I had a 1u film, do I really want or need a (balsa) strop pasted with diamond particles?
  • Why paste diamond on a balsa strop when you can just paste diamond on a regular belt strop that comes attached with a leather strop?

  • View attachment 941708
1. I never use pasted strops of any kind except for experimenting. Never used diamond paste. On the other hand pasted strops are probably the simplest way, skill wise, to a serviceable edge.

2. I would strongly recommend leaving the fabric strop that is attatched to your daily strop clean. If you want to paste a hanging strop you can get a canvas belt at the Dollar store or Salvation Army for peanuts. I know that some people use pasted strops daily, but the majority only use them occasionally or never. I would keep pastes away from you daily strops.
 
Perhaps, I will start with a used leather strop that Dick peck sent me and a 1u film for learning to hone.

I don't care about stones per se. I care about reducing long-term maintenance cost and getting great shaves out of straight razor. I currently have one straight razor and is going to own two straight razors once the one that Dick peck sent arrives. He sent a straight razor and a used leather strop to my address.

  • If I had a 1u film, do I want or need a (balsa) strop pasted with diamond particles?
  • The following image is of 3M lapping film. For 20 USD, I seem to get a good deal for initial exploratory phase. But, is this going to incur lower long-term maintenance cost than relatively affordable water stones like Arkansas Grey?
    View attachment 941708
These have an adhesive backing . You need the without
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
What he said. You do not want sticky back film. You want plain back. This is mentioned in the lapping film thread. Read those threads, because there are a hundred ways to get it wrong, and you will probably pick one of them if you depart from the road most traveled.

.5u, .25u, and then .1u, after the 1u film, will make your edge much sharper and considerably smoother on the face. Read the pasted balsa thread in the Newbie Honing Compendium.
 
@Slash McCoy For initial exploration, films are cheap and good. What about long-term costs? Are 1u films cheaper than something like Arkansas Grey finishing stone in the span of 10~20 years?
 
You can absolutely use the PSA backed films, they do cost more than the non backed ones though and you must be more careful to ensure you don’t have any air pockets.
Are films cheaper in the long term? I don’t know, honestly it doesn’t matter to me much. I love the feel of stones, films are dead, lifeless and have no soul. Every natural stone has its own soul, you will learn to feel it under the blade and it will guide you tell you what’s going on.
Stones are no more difficult to learn on than films. The reason film is very difficult to mess up is that Slash has laid out a solid set of instructions that if followed will give a great result.
 
You can absolutely use the PSA backed films, they do cost more than the non backed ones though and you must be more careful to ensure you don’t have any air pockets.
Are films cheaper in the long term? I don’t know, honestly it doesn’t matter to me much. I love the feel of stones, films are dead, lifeless and have no soul. Every natural stone has its own soul, you will learn to feel it under the blade and it will guide you tell you what’s going on.
Stones are no more difficult to learn on than films. The reason film is very difficult to mess up is that Slash has laid out a solid set of instructions that if followed will give a great result.

Why doesn't someone do the same as Slash did with films using stones? I mean, if the only reason films are easy is because of one man deciding to put together a method, lets get one for stones.
 
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