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Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method

So, the 30 micro corresponds to 600 grit. This is the first sheet in my pack. I've been doing 40 laps on each side of the blade. This sheet is followed by 12, 9, 3, 1 which corresponds to 1000, 1800, 8000, 14,000. the last two films are .3, and .5 micron. My question would be if all these sheets are even necessary and if so, what is the advantage to the edge?
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
I have a shapton kuromaku 1500, and i felt it took too long too. So i got the 1000 and the 2000 in same series. Now i progress from 1000 and up. To me that cut the number of laps way down to perhaps 1/4 or so.
Read somewhere there is a difference as to what kind of abrassive there is in the 1000 and the 1500, which should explain why the 1000 is lots more effective in creating a burr. My own experience then added the need for the 2000 to smooth the edge further using the 2000 after the 1500.
Will try later to find the source.
I've also read here that the synthetic stones cut more aggressively right after being lapped (or flattened again). I believe the information was in the comments but wouldn't swear to where on the page it is.

Also, the fellow writing that page suggests using a kitchen scale to get an idea how much force you're putting on the razor as you hone it. It's a rough measurement, but at least it quantitates the force to an approximation and is reproducible.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
So, the 30 micro corresponds to 600 grit. This is the first sheet in my pack. I've been doing 40 laps on each side of the blade. This sheet is followed by 12, 9, 3, 1 which corresponds to 1000, 1800, 8000, 14,000. the last two films are .3, and .5 micron. My question would be if all these sheets are even necessary and if so, what is the advantage to the edge?
The .5u and .3u are not necessary. The .5u, .25u, and .1u diamond on balsa do a much better job at sub micron grit sizes. However if you only have .1u then careful honing on those two grades of film will set the blade up for the .1u balsa quite well.

Sub micron grit film is notorious for creating a harsh edge. YMMV. You can create a gentler edge with those grits by finishing over picopaper.
 
I've also read here that the synthetic stones cut more aggressively right after being lapped (or flattened again). I believe the information was in the comments but wouldn't swear to where on the page it is.

Also, the fellow writing that page suggests using a kitchen scale to get an idea how much force you're putting on the razor as you hone it. It's a rough measurement, but at least it quantitates the force to an approximation and is reproducible.

Happy shaves,

Jim
Yes that is true, but that usually goes away pretty quickly. Synthetic hones are designed to release dull particles, but the binder strength is a little different from hone to hone (different brands and even different grits within the same brand) so depending on use, the post-lapping aggressiveness can last barely a few strokes or quite a while. Heavy pressure on lower surface area obviously will easily yank dull or protruding particles loose, while light pressure over a wider surface area will tend to leave them in place.
 
I have a shapton kuromaku 1500, and i felt it took too long too. So i got the 1000 and the 2000 in same series. Now i progress from 1000 and up. To me that cut the number of laps way down to perhaps 1/4 or so.
Read somewhere there is a difference as to what kind of abrassive there is in the 1000 and the 1500, which should explain why the 1000 is lots more effective in creating a burr. My own experience then added the need for the 2000 to smooth the edge further using the 2000 after the 1500.
Will try later to find the source.
Couldn't find the article I remember reading. Here is a link which it is said the 1500 clogs on stainless steel.
Shapton Pro 1K, 5K Or Add 2K?
I know it's entirely the same, but I think it touches on the same subject.


Sent from from somewhere in Midgard
 
The .5u and .3u are not necessary. The .5u, .25u, and .1u diamond on balsa do a much better job at sub micron grit sizes. However if you only have .1u then careful honing on those two grades of film will set the blade up for the .1u balsa quite well.

Sub micron grit film is notorious for creating a harsh edge. YMMV. You can create a gentler edge with those grits by finishing over picopaper.
Just have the .1 diamond paste. When
I use the . 3 and . 5, I try to use only the weight of the blade.

Over the weekend I’m going to rehone a couple of my near wedges with tape. The edges feel sharp, but do not shave well. I didn’t use tape on them before.
 
I have a question/suggestion that might help people raise a burr. From knife sharpening, I know most people hone edge leading to reduce the chance/prominence of a burr. What would be the downside of honing a razor edge trailing until a burr is formed? either initial burr, or full length burr?

Just something that has been nagging me since I've read this method of bevel setting. And I'm not saying its a great idea, I have no experience yet honing, so I don't know the pros or cons of it.
 
I have a question/suggestion that might help people raise a burr. From knife sharpening, I know most people hone edge leading to reduce the chance/prominence of a burr. What would be the downside of honing a razor edge trailing until a burr is formed? either initial burr, or full length burr?

Just something that has been nagging me since I've read this method of bevel setting. And I'm not saying its a great idea, I have no experience yet honing, so I don't know the pros or cons of it.
Maybe, but the Method works. Isn't that the point?
 
You can use the method, and do edge leading or trailing. It can help with steels/tempering that don't burr well. As I said though, don't know if there are any downsides from doing it.
Once I used it on 7 vintage razors, now, I am beginning to see it's value for myself. What I have learned is the value of using tape and a good, Scotch tape in honing a near wedge.

For me I can see that it seeks to establish, as much as possible, an equal edge on both sides of the blade. We've all seen pocket knifes with unequal blade wear.

I would encourage you to experiment, however and report your findings.
 
I just used this method to reset all the bevels on my straights this weekend, and I’m a believer. All my straights give amazing shaves now.
 
I just used this method to reset all the bevels on my straights this weekend, and I’m a believer. All my straights give amazing shaves now.
Yeah it is close to fail proof, even for a beginner. I use this method almost exclusively, but nothing wrong with trying other methods once you got the hang of the Burr Method. They all work if you do it right. This way is just easiest to learn and dead certain to give you a bevel. A good bevel is a good bevel, however you get it.
 
Yeah it is close to fail proof, even for a beginner. I use this method almost exclusively, but nothing wrong with trying other methods once you got the hang of the Burr Method. They all work if you do it right. This way is just easiest to learn and dead certain to give you a bevel. A good bevel is a good bevel, however you get it.
Yeah, I had previously honed them all but they just never seemed to give me all that great of a shave. Once I reset the bevel and honed through my progression, it all seemed to fall into place.
 
A little over a month ago I picked up a King 1000 Wet Stone (1000 grit) at a flea market for $8.00 and I have to say it has made setting a bevel really fast. I've been using vintage oil/wet stones to set bevels but the King 1000 is new and works better (and faster) for me. You can find them online from 250 grit to 8000 grit, double sided or single grit and the price is pretty good in my opinion.
 
The King 1k does work really really well with some steels, but now so good with others. I found that My Shapton 500 and 2000 work best with Henckels steel while my King is just barely OK. Just the opposite with many of the antique Sheffield blades.
Alex
 
There is more than one way to skin a cat, but it's good to start with something. Setting the bevel importance was the most significant factor I've learned and experienced when I've failed to establish one.

My progress with the films has been an experimentation. I heard different directions, but decided that counting provided some symmetry lacking in the videos I watched. Circles do more sooner, but I am not sure that's good. I would rather work slow on a razor, but faster on a kitchen or pocket knife and I shave with neither.
 
Does the burr method work okay with slightly smiling edges? I know it was briefly mentioned in the first post, but wanted to see if anyone had any extra feedback/tips on it.
 
Of course. Just use enough of a rolling motion to hit all or at least like 98% of the edge. I find it easiest to roll the hone rather than the razor. This gives you a lot of control and precision. Over rolling and exaggerating the smile is a common problem.
 
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