What's new
  • Welcome back Guest!
    If you have been away from our site you may have to request a new password. Simply click on the link for "lost" password in the log in page.
    Thank you.
  • Guest
    The BST is now open, please note the changes in our guidelines to address the recent fraudulent activity. Ensure you read the guidelines prior to creating a sale thread in the Buy-Sell-Trade forum with special attention to the new photo and payment requirements.
    Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method

Raising a burr on both sides works well indeed, and doesn't remove too much steel as long as you are watching for it to appear and stopping once it's raised. It's probably the best method for a person very new to honing I think.
 
Picked up a Cadman Bengall 6/8 full hollow for cheap this afternoon. Cleaned it up and noticed that it had no visible bevel on it at all. So I went to work on it with the 1k. Raised a burr on side A, checked that it was catching along the length of the blade. Flipped over to the B side and raised the burr along that length too. Thumbnail, tomato, thumb pad all sharp. It did not want to take any hair off my arm or leg though.

This happened with the blade I worked last night too.

As I am stubborn I pushed ahead through the 3k 4k 10 k and oozuko. Felt sharp but knew it wasn't since the bevel just wasn't where it needed to be(not done until it's done). Tried to shave anyway with predicted terrible results.

I have all my stones lapped flat, checked with a quality straight edge and a flashlight and no light peeks through from any angle at any place on the stones.

I'll try again tomorrow. I noticed the bevel was skinnier than I would have expected on a 6/8.

I really do enjoy this. I'm going to be stoked once I get this sorted.

Thanks

Kevin
 
Can't get a burr. Went from 5/8 to 1/4 wide on my Wade and Butcher.
So, I have been doing a lot of honing.
I now use it to practice shave as it is the perfect safety Straight razor it won't cut.

Started with 1k,2k,4K,6k,8k,16k then 30k, no popping of hairs.
Finally went to 500 could not get a burr, then continued with my progression.
Did this again and again till I got to 1/4 of an inch wide.

Razor is not warped.

Maybe my brand new Shapton stones and Shapton DGLP are warped or defective.
More like, I am defective.......ouch....

Might need to buy a Nakayama for my Koraat Straight Razor........
Don't need any more practice Straight razors.
 
Finally got it I think. I took the stones in hand and also did the majority of the heavy lifting on my 3k after I had the edge profile I wanted using the 1k on the 6/8 Bengall.

Thanks for all the help and patience. It was great to have a fantastic shave with a blade I beveled and honed myself.
 
Finally got it I think. I took the stones in hand and also did the majority of the heavy lifting on my 3k after I had the edge profile I wanted using the 1k on the 6/8 Bengall.

Thanks for all the help and patience. It was great to have a fantastic shave with a blade I beveled and honed myself.
It will get even better.
 
Can't get a burr. Went from 5/8 to 1/4 wide on my Wade and Butcher.
So, I have been doing a lot of honing.
I now use it to practice shave as it is the perfect safety Straight razor it won't cut.

Started with 1k,2k,4K,6k,8k,16k then 30k, no popping of hairs.
Finally went to 500 could not get a burr, then continued with my progression.
Did this again and again till I got to 1/4 of an inch wide.

Razor is not warped.

Maybe my brand new Shapton stones and Shapton DGLP are warped or defective.
More like, I am defective.......ouch....

Might need to buy a Nakayama for my Koraat Straight Razor........
Don't need any more practice Straight razors.
That's just bizarre. I don't see how you could have not got a burr you could scrape furniture with after just a few hundred laps. Taking a 5/8 W&B down to 2/8 must have taken several hundred thousand laps.

BTW, if you don't have a good bevel, it is a waste of time to continue into a honing progression. It will have approximately zero benefit for the edge.
 
Can't get a burr. Went from 5/8 to 1/4 wide on my Wade and Butcher.
So, I have been doing a lot of honing.
I now use it to practice shave as it is the perfect safety Straight razor it won't cut.

Started with 1k,2k,4K,6k,8k,16k then 30k, no popping of hairs.
Finally went to 500 could not get a burr, then continued with my progression.
Did this again and again till I got to 1/4 of an inch wide.

Razor is not warped.

Maybe my brand new Shapton stones and Shapton DGLP are warped or defective.
More like, I am defective.......ouch....

Might need to buy a Nakayama for my Koraat Straight Razor........
Don't need any more practice Straight razors.
I would not purchase another hone, if you cannot use the ones that you have. Have you lapped the shaptons?
 
Slash and paintflinger, thanks for your reply and take Care.

Shapton stones were purchased new.
Flatness checked with new Starrett straight edge, and yes they are all flat.

Slash yes it took me a month, and I was honing for hours every day.
Yes, I know that a bevel has to be set.
Trouble is, I don't know what I am doing the proof is in my honing.

I know what sharp is, I have a Tormek and built my own 42 inch sanding belt with pulleys to bring rims down too 500 rpm.

I live in Northern California and, I am looking for someone to help me.
May end up going to see Murray Carter in Oregon to take classes.
Tired of wasting my time.

Will be going to Big Shave West 3, maybe someone will be able to help.
 
You need to set a bevel to get a razor to shave. That means stop using all your stones and ONLY use the 1k until you effortlessly cut hair with it.

No other stones matter at this point because you can not set a bevel.

You are honing an old razor without any honing experience? How do you know there are no problems with the blade or the temper of the blade, or if the steel has issues and needs to be honed away to reach good steel?

Do not buy a Nakayama unless you want to go nuts. You are not ready for this stone.

Let me simplify things for you

Hone on 1k with basic x strokes until you have an edge. That's it.

This may take minutes or hours. That depends on the razor you paid for.
 
Last edited:
If that was a hollow ground blade and you were using outlandish pressure that may also explain the apex never getting there
 
Disburden thanks for the video. I already have Kieths video downloaded on my computer.
If there is a bevel video on the internet, I have downloaded it so I can watch it over and over.
I also have one of Keith Johnsons firehouse strops and Lynn Abrams Paddle strop.

Kcb5150, I try not to use pressure only the weight of the blade. I used pressure on my 500 Shapton once to get a burr on one side of my Wade & Butcher celebrated hollow razor, with no burr.
I followed Korins way of just doing one side of the razor to get a burr, with no luck.

I bought a new razor from the Perfect Edge. Once it started pulling. I re-honed it, but did not try to re-bevel since it was new. I did not use a Shapton stone lower than 8000 on it. I spent many days honing to try to get it to pop hair. Could not get it to pop hair and the shave I got was not comfortable. It felt too sharp, sorry I can't really explain the feeling. It was not pulling.

Had Dr. Matt sharpen two of my Wade & Butchers, Nano and Jnat. Both pop hairs so, I know it can be done !!!!!!

I ain't giving up.............
 
You had a shave ready edge that would not cut after touching up?

1) lap the stones anyway.

2) are you rolling the edge when you strop?
 
Disburden thanks for the video. I already have Kieths video downloaded on my computer.
If there is a bevel video on the internet, I have downloaded it so I can watch it over and over.
I also have one of Keith Johnsons firehouse strops and Lynn Abrams Paddle strop.

Kcb5150, I try not to use pressure only the weight of the blade. I used pressure on my 500 Shapton once to get a burr on one side of my Wade & Butcher celebrated hollow razor, with no burr.
I followed Korins way of just doing one side of the razor to get a burr, with no luck.

I bought a new razor from the Perfect Edge. Once it started pulling. I re-honed it, but did not try to re-bevel since it was new. I did not use a Shapton stone lower than 8000 on it. I spent many days honing to try to get it to pop hair. Could not get it to pop hair and the shave I got was not comfortable. It felt too sharp, sorry I can't really explain the feeling. It was not pulling.

Had Dr. Matt sharpen two of my Wade & Butchers, Nano and Jnat. Both pop hairs so, I know it can be done !!!!!!

I ain't giving up.............

Pics of the blade and bevel setter might give us a clue.

The only thing that could absolutely prevent formation of a burr would be a heavy slurry. Slurry can eat a burr like fried chicken. For best results, rinse the stone periodically while trying to set a bevel.

You are keeping the spine on the stone, right? Not "bending" the razor over the edge of the stone? Not letting the shoulder up onto the stone?

I would suggest trying a different bevel setter but honestly it soundss like it is something not right with your honing stroke since you were unsuccessful at refreshing the above described razor. For the newbie on a budget I sometimes recommend a piece of glass or tile and a 1/3 (lengthwise) sheet of sandpaper glued to it. But again, I think the problem lies elsewhere and not with the stone.

Did you perform a sharpie test? Take a sharpie marker and paint the bevel. Both the edge bevel and the spine bevel. 2 or 3 laps on a stone will tell you where it makes contact and where it does not.

Are you honing in hand, or resting the stone on a fixed object like a bench or table? Paradoxically, the harder you try to "control" the razor by resting the stone or even holding the razor with both hands, the more likely you are to introduce significant errors in presenting the razor to the stone. When you hone in hand, they find their own alignment.

I find the weight of my arm is about the right pressure for raising a burr. Too little pressure tends to remove a burr rather than form one. Too heavy and you are flexing the blade all over the place.

You may end up having to work with someone experienced, in person. Honestly I can't figure this out. No sense making a bunch of toothpicks out of lots of perfectly good razors... it is not teaching you anything except maybe perseverence.
 
Guilt........., I know because it is me.
Disburden, I stopped using the strop because I thought I was rolling the edge.
Yes, I lap frequently with my Shapton DGLP lapping stone. I was so discouraged that I
I bought a 400 and 1200 Atoma and a Starrett straight edges. My stones are flat.

Slash, So yesterday, I brought out the Nakayama, I bought from Alex Gilmore....
I tried to shave with my Perfect Edge razor and it was too harsh, Shapton honed.
I then went to the Nakayama using Alex Gilmore's 21 axe stroke method?
I used both of my hands on the stone to make sure the razor was level on the bench stone.
Tried not to use any pressure.
The shave from was incredibly smooth, yeah like butter.

I still have a problem with my razors and the burr.
Thanks guys for the feedback, I am going to get this right.
 
Guilt........., I know because it is me.
Disburden, I stopped using the strop because I thought I was rolling the edge.
Yes, I lap frequently with my Shapton DGLP lapping stone. I was so discouraged that I
I bought a 400 and 1200 Atoma and a Starrett straight edges. My stones are flat.

Slash, So yesterday, I brought out the Nakayama, I bought from Alex Gilmore....
I tried to shave with my Perfect Edge razor and it was too harsh, Shapton honed.
I then went to the Nakayama using Alex Gilmore's 21 axe stroke method?
I used both of my hands on the stone to make sure the razor was level on the bench stone.
Tried not to use any pressure.
The shave from was incredibly smooth, yeah like butter.

I still have a problem with my razors and the burr.
Thanks guys for the feedback, I am going to get this right.
It is better if you do NOT use both hands, and hold the stone in your off hand. But congratulations on your success!
 
Burr method will remove more metal than necessary to get a sharp edge.
This is quite true. However, as I have already mentioned, we are talking about an infintisemal amount of steel, and this only has to be done once. You should NEVER have to re set a bevel unless you whack the edge against a faucet or something. Also, in the case of a beginner, often there is doubt as to whether the bevel is set using x strokes, and when you go back over and over and have at it again and again just to be sure, then you are removing even more steel. I think the benefits outweigh the one rather minor con. For those who disagree, just do regular alternating laps until done.
 
This seems to be a struggling point for most. I find that many who start straight razor honing have never evened sharpened a pocket knife so this is all new and there are so many variables. You have been given the best advise the blade should shave once the bevel is set, after that you just refine it. It's not the stones, it's just the learning curve.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
 
Top Bottom