Seraphim and his darn lapping film

[rider4life]

So I just received a Gold Dollar from Seraphim, honed on lapping film. There are a lot of people on this forum (and others) who bemoan the use of lapping film to hone razors and some say the GDs are not shave worthy no matter what you do. To all of you out there I say you are correct. The lapping film is horrible and the GDs don't shave worth spit.

If this were opposite world that is.

I have four other straights, honed with a shrapton set, coti or jnat (two of these) and none hold a candle to Seraphim's blade. I was SHOCKED. I only needed a WTG and XTG pass on my cheeks to make them BBS, even running my fingers (and my wife verified!) ATG. How the hell can I get a BBS without doing ATG???? I don't understand this wizardry. On my neck my hair goes E-W so even doing WTG is painful with a straight cause they just don't fit between my neck and chest. I've adapted to do a semi-WTG/XTG combo, then XTG N-S and then XTG/ATG for all straight shaves. Typically I get DFS with a bit of irritation. Last night I got spots of BBS and no irritation. I'm beyond impressed right now.

I would highly recommend everyone who derides lapping film and/or GDs to buy one of his blades and try it for yourself.

Finally I have one last thing to say to Seraphim:

TEACH ME THE SECRETS!!!!!

I've got some lapping film on the way, my PICO paper is ready to go and a friend cut me a piece of granite as a base (he's a stonemason. I got him into wetshaving, this is his "repayment" ) I hope I can get my other blades just close to the sharp- and smoothness that you got your blade to. I'm still face-turbating 16hrs later...smooth as butta.

Cheers,

M.

 

[Firewalker]

Congrats Matt! Which razor is it you got from Seraphim?

 

[wquiles]

I would highly recommend everyone who derides lapping film and/or GDs to buy one of his blades and try it for yourself.

+1

I started with lapping film on my Shorty razor, and I am amazed how nice an edge I got

 

[Seraphim]

So I just received a Gold Dollar from Seraphim, honed on lapping film. There are a lot of people on this forum (and others) who bemoan the use of lapping film to hone razors and some say the GDs are not shave worthy no matter what you do. To all of you out there I say you are correct. The lapping film is horrible and the GDs don't shave worth spit.

If this were opposite world that is.

I have four other straights, honed with a shrapton set, coti or jnat (two of these) and none hold a candle to Seraphim's blade. I was SHOCKED. I only needed a WTG and XTG pass on my cheeks to make them BBS, even running my fingers (and my wife verified!) ATG. How the hell can I get a BBS without doing ATG???? I don't understand this wizardry. On my neck my hair goes E-W so even doing WTG is painful with a straight cause they just don't fit between my neck and chest. I've adapted to do a semi-WTG/XTG combo, then XTG N-S and then XTG/ATG for all straight shaves. Typically I get DFS with a bit of irritation. Last night I got spots of BBS and no irritation. I'm beyond impressed right now.

I would highly recommend everyone who derides lapping film and/or GDs to buy one of his blades and try it for yourself.

Finally I have one last thing to say to Seraphim:

TEACH ME THE SECRETS!!!!!

I've got some lapping film on the way, my PICO paper is ready to go and a friend cut me a piece of granite as a base (he's a stonemason. I got him into wetshaving, this is his "repayment" ) I hope I can get my other blades just close to the sharp- and smoothness that you got your blade to. I'm still face-turbating 16hrs later...smooth as butta.

Cheers,

M.

Thanks for the kind words.


Never any secrets, I've been shouting about lapping films from the rooftops for the past four or five years. The only real secret is to make sure to set the bevel, REALLY set it, don't be shy.

 

[wquiles]

The only real secret is to make sure to set the bevel, REALLY set it, don't be shy.

That was where I failed the first time. I jumped to the film too quickly. This second time, I stayed on the DMT EE "stone", and I waited until I could start shaving hair on my arm, before going to the 30u, 15u, etc.. Then I really got a great shaving edge, and I am a total str8 razor honing newbie - if I can get a good edge on film, anyone should be able to do it as well.

 

[Paxaddict]

Hmm. Maybe I should put this lapping film I've got sitting here to the test. I've been trying to use my brand new Jnat, and though I'm getting shaveable, I'm not getting much past that (And my shaveable standards are super low)

 

[daflorc]

I recently had the opportunity to use lapping film to hone a razor. As so many know already, it is an acceptable substitute for the stones. However, I think the only advantage is the cost. Stones are more expensive, but, IMO, the best option if you can afford it.

Benefits to stones:
Never have to be replaced
Can put pressure on them while honing
Provide a solid base in themselves

Disadvantages to stones:
Price.

 

[daflorc]

Hmm. Maybe I should put this lapping film I've got sitting here to the test. I've been trying to use my brand new Jnat, and though I'm getting shaveable, I'm not getting much past that (And my shaveable standards are super low)

If all you are looking for is an easy to use, fast cutter, Jnats are not all the same. Some are fast cutters, some are slow, some are fine and some are less so. A naniwa 8k cuts twice as fast as my old coticule, however the coticule I owned previous to that one cut very fast.

BTW, you should not even be honing on a Jnat finisher unless you already have a very comfortable shaving edge....

 

[Paxaddict]

I recently had the opportunity to use lapping film to hone a razor. As so many know already, it is an acceptable substitute for the stones. However, I think the only advantage is the cost. Stones are more expensive, but, IMO, the best option if you can afford it.

Benefits to stones:
Never have to be replaced
Can put pressure on them while honing
Provide a solid base in themselves

Disadvantages to stones:
Price.

Additional disadvantages:
Portability (going on the road for work, etc)
Makes the house smell like a quarry
Storage space

 

[daflorc]

I have four other straights, honed with a shrapton set, coti or jnat (two of these) and none hold a candle to Seraphim's blade. I was SHOCKED.
M.

Keep in mind that Seraphim's honing skills are the key here, not necessarily because lapping film is "better" for honing. Lapping film may just be his preferred method. I can guarantee you that any person who can get a perfect shaving edge consistently on lapping film can also get an identical shaving edge off of any other finishing stone.

 

[daflorc]

Additional disadvantages:
Portability (going on the road for work, etc)
Makes the house smell like a quarry
Storage space

I have to disagree here. I hone razors every day, and my house does not smell like a quarry. Additionally, 3 sharpening stones hardly takes up any space. Unless of course if you're living out of a Tokyo-style, bunk-bed hotel room. True, they aren't that portable, unless you have a little case for them (I use a small leather briefcase) but if you're going to transport your lapping films, are you also going to transport the piece of glass or marble you use to back your films? And don't you also need to transport your razors, brush, soap, shaving mug, strop, etc? It seems to me that the wet-shaving hobby in itself isn't that portable...

Additionally, if you're going on the road for work for less than six months, you should only need 3 razors and a strop - honing shouldn't be necessary.

 

[Paxaddict]

Well, often times I find myself on assignment for 6 months or so at a time (like my trip to Korea that begins shortly, where I'll be staying in the barracks, a tiny one room apartment where I share a common kitchen and bathroom area.)

Both storage space and portability are a concern for me. Also, my Jnats totally smell like a quarry when I've got them wet and got the slurry going.

True, I am still only starting out, but I foresee myself with my pack narrowed down to three razors, a strop, marble tile, film, soap and brush. All of which, together will easily fit in a briefcase, or a good sized toiletry bag. Plus, I don't have to worry as much about my marble tile, I don't need a lot of padding to keep it safe, because if it does break, I'm out 3 bucks. Not 200+ like my Oozuku Awase. So peace of mind is in the list as well for me.

 

[paco664]

Rocks for life baby!!!


No Saran wrap!!


Lol

 

[rider4life]

Keep in mind that Seraphim's honing skills are the key here, not necessarily because lapping film is "better" for honing. Lapping film may just be his preferred method. I can guarantee you that any person who can get a perfect shaving edge consistently on lapping film can also get an identical shaving edge off of any other finishing stone.

I understand what you're saying and definitely agree that the skill of the honer needs to be taken into account. One of the blades that I have was honed by someone who hones for a living. His set of rocks is beyond impressive and made me want to go out an buy a bunch myself. I'm also not saying that honing on rocks isn't good, or that you can't get an amzing shave. I KNOW you CAN! I was simply giving some examples of the edges I've shaved with. I've enjoyed shaving with all of them but like DE blades you gravitate more to some then others.

I'm also not saying that you're going to like shaving off his edges more than off a stone, especially if you are your own honer. My point was that I'm super impressed by the blade I bought and how it was honed and would like to see people actually try something before they knock it.

Cheers,

M.

 

[rider4life]

Congrats Matt! Which razor is it you got from Seraphim?

Dave:

I picked up the Spanish Point in this thread:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/334623-Flim-Flam-razor-sales?referrerid=35324

It's puuuuurrrrrdy...

Cheers,

M.

 

[buca3152]

So I just received a Gold Dollar from Seraphim, honed on lapping film. There are a lot of people on this forum (and others) who bemoan the use of lapping film to hone razors and some say the GDs are not shave worthy no matter what you do. To all of you out there I say you are correct. The lapping film is horrible and the GDs don't shave worth spit.

If this were opposite world that is.

I have four other straights, honed with a shrapton set, coti or jnat (two of these) and none hold a candle to Seraphim's blade. I was SHOCKED. I only needed a WTG and XTG pass on my cheeks to make them BBS, even running my fingers (and my wife verified!) ATG. How the hell can I get a BBS without doing ATG???? I don't understand this wizardry. On my neck my hair goes E-W so even doing WTG is painful with a straight cause they just don't fit between my neck and chest. I've adapted to do a semi-WTG/XTG combo, then XTG N-S and then XTG/ATG for all straight shaves. Typically I get DFS with a bit of irritation. Last night I got spots of BBS and no irritation. I'm beyond impressed right now.

I would highly recommend everyone who derides lapping film and/or GDs to buy one of his blades and try it for yourself.

Finally I have one last thing to say to Seraphim:

TEACH ME THE SECRETS!!!!!

I've got some lapping film on the way, my PICO paper is ready to go and a friend cut me a piece of granite as a base (he's a stonemason. I got him into wetshaving, this is his "repayment" ) I hope I can get my other blades just close to the sharp- and smoothness that you got your blade to. I'm still face-turbating 16hrs later...smooth as butta.

Cheers,

M.[/QUOTE
I have used lapping film up to .1 micron. I cant feel the difference between that and between .5 crox. I dont think you can get bbs without atg pass. Im not calling anybody a liar, but I am entitled to have my opinion. If a new feather blade in a shavette cant get close to bbs xtg, then how can a straight get there? How much sharper can a straight be than a feather blade? What magic formula exists where an xtg will get you bbs? I am not a barber and I can only tell you about my face. I have used a shavette for over 6 years de for 1 and straights only since october. I get bbs every time with my straights. I have learned my face and what works for me. I cannot get a bbs without ATG. As a matter of fact I only go ATG on my neck and thats 2 passes. wtg is useless for me and xtg still leaves me with 2 more passes atg.

 

[daflorc]

Plus, I don't have to worry as much about my marble tile, I don't need a lot of padding to keep it safe, because if it does break, I'm out 3 bucks. Not 200+ like my Oozuku Awase. So peace of mind is in the list as well for me.

Now THIS is a valid argument

Btw, if you don't like the smell of natural stones (I like it but that's just me) Nortons and Naniwas don't have that smell.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

BTW, you should not even be honing on a Jnat finisher unless you already have a very comfortable shaving edge....

Sorry daflorc but I don't agree. I've just acquired two of what would probably be deemed finishers. If you have the nagura they'll go from blunted edge (not cutting arm hair) to super sharp (I'm a coticule boy so they are super sharp) with no worries. Now they are probably nakayama (according to the kawa - they aren't stamped anymore) so I say get a finisher and a set of nagura and go for it! Ok, only ever tried my 2 jnats so nothing to compare to but I find it hard to believe that other finishers will behave differently - you only use the awasedo when you go tomo - unless I've misunderstood all I've read.
Having said that I've got a 17.5cm coticule that I'm willing to swap for a wad of lapping film for anyone that is interested (it's dished but I'm sure it will hone well - I have it earmarked for my knives.
Having said this I may well be very, very wrong but I've been drinking again and half a bottle of rosé with SWMBO and 4 caiparhinia gets me all worked up.
Who knows, I might get lucky tonight (talking about film, nothing else)

 

[daflorc]

Sorry daflorc but I don't agree. I've just acquired two of what would probably be deemed finishers. If you have the nagura they'll go from blunted edge (not cutting arm hair) to super sharp (I'm a coticule boy so they are super sharp) with no worries. Now they are probably nakayama (according to the kawa - they aren't stamped anymore) so I say get a finisher and a set of nagura and go for it!
Having said this I may well be very, very wrong but I've been drinking again and half a bottle of rosé with SWMBO and 4 caiparhinia gets me all worked up.

Nope, you are right here, I wasn't thinking of naguras when I posted that comment. Naguras completely change the stones honing capabilities. I don't have a nagura for my jnat, which is why I must use it only as a finisher after an 8k stone. I guess I could probably go to it after the 4k, but it'd take a lot more time on the stone to get it where it needs to be, IMO.

 

[rickboone1]

be careful that pico paper can fall apart. you need the actual film.