What's new
  • Guest
    As per our long standing policy of not permitting medical advice on the forum - all threads concerning the Coronavirus will be locked.
    For more info on the coronavirus please see the link below:
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nCoV/summary.html

Seduced by Yet Another Bottleneck in Decline

This time it’s the flat-shooting (& flatlining 😔) .400 CORBON ... a/k/a, The poor man’s 10mm.

I stumbled onto an archived .400 thread on another forum & forever fascinated with bottlenecked handgun cartridges, I decided to take the plunge. The 1997 creation of Cor-Bon owner, Peter Pi, the .400 is a .40/10mm bullet sitting in a necked-down .45ACP casing that, with a simple barrel & recoil spring (for hotter loadings) swap, turns a number of .45 ACP pistols into a low(er)-pressure 10mm handgun.

A stainless steel .45 ACP Sig P220R will serve as the dedicated host for the .400 Corbon ... that is, if Wolff ever ships the 22# recoil spring I ordered, seemingly, sometime last year!

 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Ambassador
Yes and yes! A great round and a great idea!

"Bottleneck cartridges never jam."

Wish I had the barrel. I used to be an enthusiastic.357 SIG guy, still am really.

And I use and carry 7.62x25mm Tok.

I'd settle for an AR subgun in x25.

AA
 
Yes and yes! A great round and a great idea!

"Bottleneck cartridges never jam."

Wish I had the barrel. I used to be an enthusiastic.357 SIG guy, still am really.

And I use and carry 7.62x25mm Tok.

I'd settle for an AR subgun in x25.

AA
I will be too when I win the lottery. This is where my wife says; "you have to play the lottery to win the lottery." :)
 

oc_in_fw

Contributor
I will be too when I win the lottery. This is where my wife says; "you have to play the lottery to win the lottery." :)
I buy one Quick Pick for the Texas Lottery every Wednesday and Saturday. Can’t win if you don’t play, but I don’t sink a lot of money into it. It doesn’t really improve your odds very much.
 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Ambassador
I will be too when I win the lottery. This is where my wife says; "you have to play the lottery to win the lottery." :)
Okie, question. I have tinnitus/some hearing loss. As a result, I'm reluctant to rely on superloud rounds for SD. Where does LE come down on this? Nobody's going to be wearing "ear&eye" in a situation ... Thanks.

AA
 
Yes and yes! A great round and a great idea!

"Bottleneck cartridges never jam."

Wish I had the barrel. I used to be an enthusiastic.357 SIG guy, still am really.

And I use and carry 7.62x25mm Tok.

I'd settle for an AR subgun in x25.

AA
AA, you’re a man after my own heart, as the .357 SIG & 7.62 Tok are my two favorite bottleneck calibers, followed closely by the .22 TCM, .32-20 & now, most recently, the .400C. The .38-40 is on the horizon, that is, once I find the right smokewagon for it.

The .400 Corbon barrels (& dies) are out there ... after familiarizing myself with the round, I placed a couple WTB adds & within a day, had a barrel & die set in the mail. I added the CH4D canneluring tool to mix, first, because I’ve always wanted one for those warmer .357 SIG & Tok reloads & secondly, because of bullet setback (neck tension) issues with hotter .400 loadings.

In addition to Starline, small primer Winchester & Federal are the reloaders preferred .45 ACP cases, as they’re a wee bit thicker & friendlier when it comes to reforming ... in the late-‘90s, those using Starline’s large primer .400C brass (made from .45 ACP +P brass) experienced performance issues with the LPs & asked Starline to transition to small rifle/pistol primer brass, which they did.

As with the .357S, I first run the .45 cases through a carbide (10mm) die & then, with the decapper/expander ball removed, through the .400C sizing die. There’s no need for an expander die (an inside chamfer suffices), which is why I spent $50 on a new 2-die RCBS set & not a $100 on a used 3-die Redding set, which are actually my preferred dies.
 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Ambassador
AA, you’re a man after my own heart, as the .357 SIG & 7.62 Tok are my two favorite bottleneck calibers, followed closely by the .22 TCM, .32-20 & now, most recently, the .400C. The .38-40 is on the horizon, that is, once I find the right smokewagon for it.

The .400 Corbon barrels (& dies) are out there ... after familiarizing myself with the round, I placed a couple WTB adds & within a day, had a barrel & die set in the mail. I added the CH4D canneluring tool to mix, first, because I’ve always wanted one for those warmer .357 SIG & Tok reloads & secondly, because of bullet setback (neck tension) issues with hotter .400 loadings.

In addition to Starline, small primer Winchester & Federal are the reloaders preferred .45 ACP cases, as they’re a wee bit thicker & friendlier when it comes to reforming ... in the late-‘90s, those using Starline’s large primer .400C brass (made from .45 ACP +P brass) experienced performance issues with the LPs & asked Starline to transition to small rifle/pistol primer brass, which they did.

As with the .357S, I first run the .45 cases through a carbide (10mm) die & then, with the decapper/expander ball removed, through the .400C sizing die. There’s no need for an expander die (an inside chamfer suffices), which is why I spent $50 on a new 2-die RCBS set & not a $100 on a used 3-die Redding set, which are actually my preferred dies.
It's a great thread and thanks. I do have x25 dies and brass, but also an embarrassing amount of the combloc ammo. No hurry to load. Pet project was to be a .22 sabot round into x25; imagine the velocity!

Maybe when I retire. Too little time right now; casting and loading .45 Colt and .38 Special is about all I can keep up with.

A .400 Corbon barrel for my G30SF would be stellar, if they make. Hmm.

AA
 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Ambassador
Storm Lake did produce .400 CORBON barrels for the Glock 30SF & there may have been others (mfgs.), too.

May want to contact SL & also, I’d throw a WTB request onto the Glock Talk Classifieds.
Of course I just went to Storm Lake!

Guess what, there's a conversion barrel, .45 ACP to 10mm ...


Double diamond may be better ... But .400 Corbon: you know mags and extraction will work.


AA
 
Last edited:
Okie, question. I have tinnitus/some hearing loss. As a result, I'm reluctant to rely on superloud rounds for SD. Where does LE come down on this? Nobody's going to be wearing "ear&eye" in a situation ... Thanks.

AA
Wow Mike, sorry to hear about that. There has been some discussion and discovery on the problems of hearing loss in law enforcement over the years, but it's been more about preventative measures for long term hearing loss then it has about protecting already damaged hearing.

I have known of several senior officers in the past who, go to their doctor, find out they have long term hearing loss and be perplexed about it because they took extra precautions over the years when firing their weapons during practice sessions, only to find out that they lost some of their hearing from the sirens back in the day, when sirens were actually put inside their patrol units with them. Then, when responding to hundreds of emergency calls over the years, they lost hearing without ever realizing it.

Modern policing have made some incremental changes, like putting siren speakers out in front of the hoods on cruisers by the grill. While it's still not the optimal 85 decibels or below that we look for, there just isn't alot of changes in technology or design to prevent it more.

It's illegal to wear ear protection that reduces sound when driving. and while there are amplified earplugs that will and can reduce the sound of intermittent gunfire, there isn't any filtering out for wailing sirens while letting other noises that need to be heard by officers in.

So what is an officer to do? Sadly, most officers still just consider it a sacrifice of the job that is going to possibly happen. If an officer already has perfect hearing, the rare gunfight an officer might find themselves in, most likely won't cause any permanent damage.

However, in your individual case? an single independent volley of gunfire, could effect an already current diagnosis of Tinnitus. Most fire arms instructors, focus on teach adequate and proper hearing protection as a preventative against future hearing loss. While you could keep a pair of electronic muffs on the bed stand next to your firearm, which could amplify noise you need to hear and protect you from the noise of gunfire, is it realistic?

Could be for home protection, but not concealed carry. Even consider this. If siren decibels can injure the hearing of officers driving to calls, what happens when you are driving and you pull over to the side for a passing emergency vehicle? Does that momentary exposure of it passing by you on the road, continue degrading your hearing loss?

Definitely something to think about.
 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Ambassador
Wow Mike, sorry to hear about that. There has been some discussion and discovery on the problems of hearing loss in law enforcement over the years, but it's been more about preventative measures for long term hearing loss then it has about protecting already damaged hearing.

I have known of several senior officers in the past who, go to their doctor, find out they have long term hearing loss and be perplexed about it because they took extra precautions over the years when firing their weapons during practice sessions, only to find out that they lost some of their hearing from the sirens back in the day, when sirens were actually put inside their patrol units with them. Then, when responding to hundreds of emergency calls over the years, they lost hearing without ever realizing it.

Modern policing have made some incremental changes, like putting siren speakers out in front of the hoods on cruisers by the grill. While it's still not the optimal 85 decibels or below that we look for, there just isn't alot of changes in technology or design to prevent it more.

It's illegal to wear ear protection that reduces sound when driving. and while there are amplified earplugs that will and can reduce the sound of intermittent gunfire, there isn't any filtering out for wailing sirens while letting other noises that need to be heard by officers in.

So what is an officer to do? Sadly, most officers still just consider it a sacrifice of the job that is going to possibly happen. If an officer already has perfect hearing, the rare gunfight an officer might find themselves in, most likely won't cause any permanent damage.

However, in your individual case? an single independent volley of gunfire, could effect an already current diagnosis of Tinnitus. Most fire arms instructors, focus on teach adequate and proper hearing protection as a preventative against future hearing loss. While you could keep a pair of electronic muffs on the bed stand next to your firearm, which could amplify noise you need to hear and protect you from the noise of gunfire, is it realistic?

Could be for home protection, but not concealed carry. Even consider this. If siren decibels can injure the hearing of officers driving to calls, what happens when you are driving and you pull over to the side for a passing emergency vehicle? Does that momentary exposure of it passing by you on the road, continue degrading your hearing loss?

Definitely something to think about.
Dayum. I was wondering, got an answer... Many thanks.

Why I tend to rely on subsonic SD.

I just cringe at the thought of .357 or 5.56 going off in a car or room.


AA
 
Dayum. I was wondering, got an answer... Many thanks.

Why I tend to rely on subsonic SD.


AA
Gunfire from subsonic ammunition is still just as loud to the human ear as regular ammo. The decibel levels from both, especially when amplified off the walls inside a residence, is/could still be just as damaging concerning hearing loss.
 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Ambassador
Gunfire from subsonic ammunition is still just as loud to the human ear as regular ammo. The decibel levels from both, especially when amplified off the walls inside a residence, is/could still be just as damaging concerning hearing loss.
Now it's my turn to say, "WHAT!?"

BLUF: You're going to lose more hearing if an emergency comes up.

Well. I still want that .400 Corbon barrel ...


AA
 
Top