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I would certainly not argue with @Steve56 about 2k and 6k but depending on how deep you get into this whole honing thing sooner or later you will need/want a 1k. For this reason, I went 1k, 4k and 8k. Simple and versatile.

I recently used my 1k to easily remove a few significant chips from a razor. And 4k is a great place to start when resetting the bevel on a shave-ready razor.

Works for me!
 
@SparkyLB, If you just want to raise some slurry on a JNAT, the fine (red) DMT card works well:


These can be had for just over $10 if you shop around.
 
@SparkyLB, If you just want to raise some slurry on a JNAT, the fine (red) DMT card works well:


These can be had for just over $10 if you shop around.
Thanks, Frank! I just so happen to have one of them. :)
 
I am not an expert in the use of nagura but based on what Iwasaki says in "Honing Razors and Nihonkamisori" it sounds like the whole idea is to buy one fine, hard base stone (he actually recommends a Nakayama or Ozuku) and then use lower cost nagura of different grits to generate slurry. And that the idea of buying lots of large, expensive stones to generate slurries of different grits was not a common practice.

I completely missed this whole concept until reading his document. That said, buying a fine, hard JNAT and using a credit-size DMT to generate slurry works great for finishing, and sets you up to use nagura.
 
For me, the simplest and most basic setup is a Chosera 1K to a Coticule. Some say they are hard to use but it was a simple learning curve for me. If the razor’s bevel is in good shape the Coticule is all that’s needed.
 
The King stones are under rated. I have all the big guns, but frequently set bevels on a King 1k, jump to a King 6k and finish on a Jnat with smoking silky shaving edges.

If you look at edges with magnification, you will see that edges do not get really straight until after 8k. There is a big difference in edge straightness between a 6 and 8k edge, if you are shaving off that edge. If you are not shaving off that edge, it does not matter, 6k is plenty straight enough to finish on a Jnat easily.

But you should be able to easily go from a 1k edge to a Jnat with diamond slurry, (about 50 laps to remove all the 1k slurry and finish to a high level by thinning slurry, or higher with Tomo nagura.

My go-to dirt simple usual progression is bevel set on a King 1k, jump straight to a Naniwia Snow White, 8k, (that can produce a near mirror finish in about 50 laps), then finish on a Jnat with a Tsushima slurry and Tomo slurry.

Take a look at Alex Gilmore’s “Ax Method” for a super simple, effective Jnat “Progression”, Some stropping between stones on linen also helps, a lot.

A Tsushima nagura is also a game changer, for removing 1k slurry easily or setting, refreshing and establishing a Kazumi bevel and straight edge quickly, $20-30.
Hi @H Brad Boonshaft , it’s took me a while getting there but yesterday I had a look at those Alex Gilmores Ax method videos.
It was an idea I’d been unaware of. To do the bare minimum of laps on the bevel setter. To trust the power of the stone and get the bevel flat and right whilst minimising the risk of rounding it with too long on the stone.
Then straight to a short spell on the jnat with diamond slurry.
Three of my razors were in need of a touch up and had never really done well with the HHT. Alex’s videos seemed to offer an explanation of this and the remedy too so I decided to give it a go.
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I gave all three razors the same treatment on the 1k which was 15 laps each side, then 8,4,2,1. The last one of the three I did was my ELSINE razor. I felt I’d done the best job on this one.
Next I’d raise a quick diamond slurry on the kitta jnat and do 10 laps each side then 6,3,2,1.
Strop, HHT. None of them passed so next was about 50 laps on a tomo nagura slurry then strop then HHT.
The ELSINE is the only one passing the HHT so that’s the one I’ll shave with tomorrow. I feel I did the best job on this on the 1k.
I’m going to redo the other two tomorrow.
What I really like about this method is that it’s very quick, very direct, no time for faffing around. The whole thing from bevel set to final strop took less than 10 mins.
Thanks for suggesting these ideas H👍👍
 
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I had another go with the ax method last night and honed a gold dollar. I watched a few of Alex’s videos and he said that 90 something percent of honing was done on the bevel set.
I started on the 1k in the usual way then to the jnat with diamond slurry, then finished with nagura slurry. I’d strop 20, test, hone, strop, test, hone, etc working on the duller areas and not stopping until the hanging hair was cut. This is a much better edge and the first time I’ve ever got a silent HHT in one area at least. Now that I have confidence that I’m doing right by the bevel set it’ll give me more confidence in assessing my results on the finishers.
 
Yup, it’s all about the bevel set. Once you grind the bevels flat, in the proper angle and the bevels meet fully at the edge, the rest is just polishing the bevels to get a straighter edge.

But you cannot polish an edge that does not exist, where the bevels are not meeting fully, from heel to toe.

The trick is having a fool proof way of determining when the bevels are meeting fully. Hair test can work once you have calibrated, (you know what as sharp edge feels like cutting a hair), and test the whole edge in multiple places. It is not as easy as shaving arm hair.

A dull razor will shave arm hair. If you do a hair test, and the razor does not cut, and then do another test and now it does cut, you are fooling yourself. The edge is not fully set. You are testing a different part of the edge. If you move up in grit, you will likely have edge issues.

The most conclusive non-destructive test I know of, is simply to look straight down at the edge with magnification. If you see any shiny reflections, the bevel is not fully set.

I honed 3 razors yesterday on the King 1k, 6k and finished on a Jnat. On the 6k I started with a Tsushima slurry. The slurry cut the 1k stria quickly, I stayed on the same slurry and thinned by adding water with a squirt bottle keeping the stone face flooded. The slurry gave a polished finish similar to an 8k Snow White or 12k Super Stone, and a straight edge.

Tsushima slurry on an 8k Snow White gives a light kasumi finish where on a Jnat it gives a courser Kasumi, pebble finish.

Try a Tsushima nagura, it will work well with the 6k and your Jnats, I often touch up my personal razors dropping down only to the Tsushima on a Jnat to re-establish a fresh edge, then work up to a Tenjyou and finish on a hard Tomo.

The only Mikawa nagura I have used in years is the Tenjyou, Tsushima replaced the lower grits. I know some of the old Jnat honers derided the Tsushima as a “mud stone”, but it works for me, and they are not expensive.

Also keep in mind, the razors you and Alex are honing, in his videos are not eBay beaters. They have been honed and much of the bevel setting work, flattening the bevels has already been done, they just need to get the bevels meeting at the edge. A beater may take more time on the 1k.

Your edges will only get better from here.
 
Yup, it’s all about the bevel set. Once you grind the bevels flat, in the proper angle and the bevels meet fully at the edge, the rest is just polishing the bevels to get a straighter edge.

But you cannot polish an edge that does not exist, where the bevels are not meeting fully, from heel to toe.

The trick is having a fool proof way of determining when the bevels are meeting fully. Hair test can work once you have calibrated, (you know what as sharp edge feels like cutting a hair), and test the whole edge in multiple places. It is not as easy as shaving arm hair.

A dull razor will shave arm hair. If you do a hair test, and the razor does not cut, and then do another test and now it does cut, you are fooling yourself. The edge is not fully set. You are testing a different part of the edge. If you move up in grit, you will likely have edge issues.

The most conclusive non-destructive test I know of, is simply to look straight down at the edge with magnification. If you see any shiny reflections, the bevel is not fully set.

I honed 3 razors yesterday on the King 1k, 6k and finished on a Jnat. On the 6k I started with a Tsushima slurry. The slurry cut the 1k stria quickly, I stayed on the same slurry and thinned by adding water with a squirt bottle keeping the stone face flooded. The slurry gave a polished finish similar to an 8k Snow White or 12k Super Stone, and a straight edge.

Tsushima slurry on an 8k Snow White gives a light kasumi finish where on a Jnat it gives a courser Kasumi, pebble finish.

Try a Tsushima nagura, it will work well with the 6k and your Jnats, I often touch up my personal razors dropping down only to the Tsushima on a Jnat to re-establish a fresh edge, then work up to a Tenjyou and finish on a hard Tomo.

The only Mikawa nagura I have used in years is the Tenjyou, Tsushima replaced the lower grits. I know some of the old Jnat honers derided the Tsushima as a “mud stone”, but it works for me, and they are not expensive.

Also keep in mind, the razors you and Alex are honing, in his videos are not eBay beaters. They have been honed and much of the bevel setting work, flattening the bevels has already been done, they just need to get the bevels meeting at the edge. A beater may take more time on the 1k.

Your edges will only get better from here.
Thanks H, after reading your advice, watching those videos you suggested then putting it into practice on the stones my edges are indeed getting rapidly better and better.
My latest attempt was my best by far and the best edge I’ve ever made.
I’ve never had any razor part hanging hair quite like this and anywhere I touch the edge the hair parts almost silently, and in one or two spots absolutely silently. And the shave I did with it today was excellent.
My focus had always been on finer stones and a lighter touch and I was getting very clean shaves, but once my focus switched and I became fully aware of the importance of a perfect bevel set and how to get there things have leapt forward for me and my edges and standards are rising fast.
Thank you for your help and wisdom it’s really helped me along.
 
I honed three razors tonight using the ax method as a starting point.
So each razor was started on the 1k King, then checked with a loupe edge on for any brightness.
Once I was happy I stropped on linen and leather then did a HHT before moving to a thinning diamond slurry on my Kitta.
When I was happy I Stropped again and then went to a thinning nagura slurry, then stropped for the final time and did an HHT.
02A2C993-0549-419D-9D0F-D70A612870D0.jpeg

Each time I do it I can see improvements.
Today the hanging hair was violining and grabbing straight off the 1k, 2 weeks ago I was only getting this result after the finisher.
Having a good quality strop with nice flax linen is making life much easier, as is a diamond flattening plate, the 1k King, a lovely and versatile jnat stone and a loupe.
My search for a simple set up has revealed a lot more than I’d bargained for, my edges have improved suddenly and massively and I know there’s still room for improvement.
 
Good to hear.

See if your Tomo nagura slurry/finish is finer than diamond slurry, 600 grit makes a nice slurry. You will need to finish on both slurries and see if one produces a finer finish than the other. Then you can use both in a progression.

Also, the heel corner is close to the stabilizer, so be careful that you are not honing on the stabilizer. That may have been your issue in the past and now that you are paying a little more attention, you are getting the blade flat on the stone, with better result. (Blue line is heel corner, red line is the stabilizer corner).

You can just ink the stabilizer, (use colored ink it is much easier to see without magnification), check the stabilizer to see if ink is removed periodically. If you are removing ink, you are hitting the stabilizer.

Or you can correct/reshape the heel and move the corner further away from the stabilizer, about a quarter inch, making it easier to hone.

It can be done quickly with a diamond plate.
2 stabilizer.png
 
Good to hear.

See if your Tomo nagura slurry/finish is finer than diamond slurry, 600 grit makes a nice slurry. You will need to finish on both slurries and see if one produces a finer finish than the other. Then you can use both in a progression.

Also, the heel corner is close to the stabilizer, so be careful that you are not honing on the stabilizer. That may have been your issue in the past and now that you are paying a little more attention, you are getting the blade flat on the stone, with better result. (Blue line is heel corner, red line is the stabilizer corner).

You can just ink the stabilizer, (use colored ink it is much easier to see without magnification), check the stabilizer to see if ink is removed periodically. If you are removing ink, you are hitting the stabilizer.

Or you can correct/reshape the heel and move the corner further away from the stabilizer, about a quarter inch, making it easier to hone.

It can be done quickly with a diamond plate.View attachment 1457679
Thanks a lot for this, very helpful.
Id actually thought about stopping from the diamond slurry but I just went to nagura out of habit really but yes some testing is a fine idea. and thanks for the advice on the stabiliser and the diagram.
Now that I’ve got 3 or four of my razors with a proper 100% hair cutting bevel set I’m going back to trying different finishers. Yesterday was the Welsh slate. I got an absolutely beautiful stone edged shave from it.
Today was the coticule.
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I ran the razor over it 50 times under running water until it began to stick.
Then stropped linen and leather.
It split the HH everywhere it touched which Ive never got from the coticule before.
The shave was absolutely brilliant, super smooth and clean.
I feel like I’m now able to really begin to maximise what’s possible with each stone all because of paying real attention to ensuring the bevel is as perfect as it can be.
I used to just hone the razor, strop and shave to find out how I’d done, but now I’m honing, stropping, testing, refining, looking, going back to the stone, the strop the loup etc.
My honing sessions are quicker now and much more organic and varied and the improvement in my edges has blown me away.
 
I’ve had this 5/8ths Bengal near wedge for a couple of years. The day it arrived I remember it cut a hanging hair in one or two places. After using it and honing it for these years I’d never really mastered it edge wise.
It shaved to bbs rightly enough but it has never really felt as sharp as my hollow grinds and I thought this might be due to the grind.
I’ve been working on it as one by one I improve my small collection of seven razors using the ax method or very similar. But this razor was proving problematic.
Today I took it back to 1k for the third time.
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I really paid attention this time to the bevel on the 1k stone. I’m getting better at this as I learn to switch hands on the hone, its making a difference.
Then I went to the diamond jnat slurry and finally the nagura slurry with lots of stropping, testing and returning to the jnat in between.
Finally, I got it to the point where it parts the hanging hair all down the edge.
I shaved with it today and am pleased to say I’ve never had it shaving so well.
Its now very smooth and very close with a brand new feel to it.
I’ve now upgraded the edge on four of my seven razors and the difference is massive.
 
I have a question. Was the improvement in the edges due to a simpler progression(less honing) or were the bevels not completely set?
 
I have a question. Was the improvement in the edges due to a simpler progression(less honing) or were the bevels not completely set?
I’m certain the improvements came because the bevels weren't properly set.
This knowledge has come as a by product of starting this process.
I thought my edges were fine and therefore so were my bevels but it was only when I switched more and more focus to the fine tuning and working on the bevel that I really improved my results.
Add to that my previous method had been to just do a refresh or deeper hone, then to shave test.
The shave test can be misleading as areas of the bevel can be rounded and it will still shave beautifully. Plus there’s no way of telling millimetre by millimetre which areas might need work and which areas are good.
So I was getting brilliant shaves, as the straight razor even at 70% is an amazing shaver, but there was much more waiting for me.
Since following the advice on this thread and especially the honing videos of Alex Gilmore I am now testing and testing at every stage of the process.
This lets me zero in on every bit of the bevel and edge in real detail and get my best results.
I now need nothing more than my 1k King, jnat and nagura, a lapping plate for ease, a loupe and a strand of hair for testing.
So my search for simplicity has also helped me to improve my edges.
 
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