School me on Brandy vs Cognac

[The Count of Merkur Cristo]

Nortac:
All cognacs are brandy, but not all brandy's are cognac.

Cognacs are made grapes only from one of six regions in Cognac, must be distilled twice in copper pot stills & must be aged in oak barrels for at least 2yrs (VS), 4yrs (VSOP), & 6yrs (XO), but there are cognacs that are even older.

"Cognac: liquor of the gods". Victor Hugo

 

[MntnMan62]

And then there’s Armagnac, another type of brandy.

 

[merovirginian]

As a huge fan of eau de vie (water of life) in general, brandy is just one method of distilling fermented fruit. And cognac is just brandy made from the grapes of the Cognac region of France (as previously mentioned). For another fantastic brandy but made from apples, try Calvados. But there are so many fruits to explore in distilled spirit form (grapes, apples, pears, cherries, prunes, etc.). Some brandies are smooth and refined. Some are rustic (no need to call them rough)—one of my favorites is a kind of French grappa called Marc made from Burgundy grapes. Have fun exploring the wonderful burn.

 

[The Knize]

And then there’s Armagnac, another type of brandy.

Very similar to Cognac, they say, as far as production techniques, except made in Gascony instead of Cognac, the use of a greater number of types of grapes, can be as little as one year old (or perhaps not aged at all), columnar stills, distilled once, aged at lower alcohol %. Excellent stuff!

 

[Champion of Capua]

Very similar to Cognac, they say, as far as production techniques, except made in Gascony instead of Cognac, the use of a greater number of types of grapes, can be as little as one year old (or perhaps not aged at all), columnar stills, distilled once, aged at lower alcohol %. Excellent stuff!

very excellent

 

[FarmerTan]

Brandy is refined organic product juice, and it tends to be any sort of organic product juice, while cognac is a particular kind of refined organic product juice with loads of capabilities. Cognac comes from the Cognac locale of southwestern France, and is made with an organic product juice base of white grapes.

Thank you for that piece of knowledge! I didn't know that, but I never bothered to research it, because I have never sampled it.

 

[luvmysuper]

Cognac is a brandy.
Brandy is a liquor that is made from fermented fruit juice, usually grapes, but other fruits are used as well, such as plums, pears or apples.
Brandy is a kind of super wine, as the fermented juice is distilled to increase the alcohol concentration.
Most well regarded Brandy is aged in casks, but not all Brandy is aged.
Cognac is a Brandy made exclusively from white grapes from the Cognac region of France.
So, while all Cognac is Brandy, not all Brandy is Cognac, just like all Bourbon is Whisky, but not all Whisky is Bourbon.

 

[FarmerTan]

Cognac is a brandy.
Brandy is a liquor that is made from fermented fruit juice, usually grapes, but other fruits are used as well, such as plums, pears or apples.
Brandy is a kind of super wine, as the fermented juice is distilled to increase the alcohol concentration.
Most well regarded Brandy is aged in casks, but not all Brandy is aged.
Cognac is a Brandy made exclusively from white grapes from the Cognac region of France.
So, while all Cognac is Brandy, not all Brandy is Cognac, just like all Bourbon is Whisky, but not all Whisky is Bourbon.

My education continues!

Kinda reminds me of the local orchard as a wee lad.... EVERYTHING went into the apple cider: plums peaches pairs.... We never heard of pasteurization back then either! It sold so fast it didn't matter!

 

[Buster]

Since the gentleman have done a good job of schooling, the bottle in the middle is a nice VSOP. ABK6 is the area the grapes are grown and distilled. Not a great name but a really nice light cognac. It costs $35 at total wine in California.

 

[RayClem]

All cognacs are blends of various Eaux de Vie. Cognacs as well as brandies are generally graded by age. If there is an age statement, the youngest Eau de Vie must be at least as old as the age statement. Others in the blend might be considerably older.


A VS Cognac must have been aged in oak a minimum of two years but might be considerably older.
A VSOP Cognac must be aged a minimum of four years, but might be considerably older.
XO (extra old) Cognac must be aged a minimum of six years, but it is not at all uncommon to find them that have been aged for 25 years or more.

Because of the cost of aging, XO cognacs can be quite expensive. I read where a Gautier Cognac vintage 1762 sold at auction for $144,525. No, I did not participate in the auction. I spend my money on shaving soaps.

Generally, the longer cognac is aged, like Scotch and Bourbon, the more complex the taste. However, that does not mean you will like it better. You might find an XO to have too much oak for your taste, but love the VSOP from the same brand to be great.

Every Cognac is blended by a master blender to insure that each lot release tastes like the last. However, that might be accomplished by blending a different set of Eaux de Vie. The same thing can be said of blended Scotch such as Johnny Walker.
Single Malt Scotch and Single Barrel Bourbon will never be the same from batch to batch, but that is part of the tasting adventure.

Because cognacs are blended, every brand will be different, so you might find some brands you like better than others. Do not be afraid to try some of the less well known brands. For example, Costco sells XO cognac under their Kirkland Signature brand. It is produced exclusively from Ugni Blanc grapes, aged in French Oak for 12-21 years and bottled. There is some speculation that the cognac is produced by Peyrat-Associés et CIE. They own their own vineyards and have been producing cognac since the early 1900s. Thus, it is a world class cognac at a Costco price.

I consider cognac, especially XO cognac to be more suitable for cooler weather. But you can make your own rules as long as you do not drink and drive. I have also heard that drinking while shaving with a straight razor may not be a good idea either.


If you are planning to use a cognac or brandy in a mixed drink, purchase the VS as the nuances of a more expensive cognac or brandy will be obscured by the mixer. The same thing can be said of Tequilla; do not waste a Extra Anejo tequilla aged for three years of more on a margarita. Save the aged bottles for sipping neat.

 

[The Knize]

just like all Bourbon is Whisky

Or "whiskey" as Woodford spells it on the bottle in the photo and is the more generally accepted spelling for bourbon and, as I recall, other American whiskey, and Irish whiskey, as opposed to Scotch and Canadian, which are generally spelled "whisky." Although there are certainly American bourbon makes that spell it "whisky," in particular, Maker's Mark! Good notes, though, everyone.

If you are planning to use a cognac or brandy in a mixed drink, purchase the VS as the nuances of a more expensive cognac or brandy will be obscured by the mixer. The same thing can be said of Tequilla; do not waste a Extra Anejo tequilla aged for three years of more on a margarita. Save the aged bottles for sipping neat.

I am going to file a potentially obnoxious dissent. I apologize in advance if I am being overly disagreeable. My personal preference is to use very good ingredients for mixed drinks, at home anyway. I guess I am not up for calling brands when I am out so much. I use fresh juices only, I make my own grenadine, I most often make my own syrups/mixers of all types. I generally use Cointreau or even nicer orange-based liqueur in margaritas. I am not going to use an inferior spirit in drinks I make as an inferior spirit will bring down the drink when it should be bringing the drink up. I do not believe the other ingredients I use are going to mask imperfections in the spirit. But that said, any real French Cognac is going to be very good. The French regulate Cognac very tightly and a VS Cognac is still a high quality spirit. Actually I tend to use Costco's Cognac and I agree with everything RayClem says. And I do not think I would go for much longer aged Cognacs with fuller flavors and more oak. I do think additional oak is not going to be all that useful in the brandy/Cognac drinks I can think of.

As for tequila, Costco's tequila's are not bad either. I tend to think that life is too short to drink bad tequila and good mixers are not going to cover for a bad one. I would not use a tequila that is not 100% agave. I also tend toward reposados, which have a bit of age and a bit of wood, not necessarily oak. For the most part, I do not love anejos to begin with. I personally do not think tequila benefits from a lot of wood, whether oak or something else--his may be a minority view--and in my view a margarita does not. On the other hand, I think a tequila made with the best of ingredients otherwise will be made all the better by an excellent tequila and the flavors of that tequila will shine through. And if I am going to sip some aged spirit, it is more likely going to be something besides tequila. But, again, this is just my opinion. Unlike Cognac, the quality of tequila and the price points are not always closely correlated.

I am sorry for all the caveats, but as I write this, everything I say seems to have exceptions. Costco has had a remarkably inexpensive anejo tequila I like a lot, that seems to me to be of excellent quality and to not be very oaky. I have definitely used that one in Margaritas. Seems like a real bargain to me.

YMMV

Great thread.

 

[Phoenixkh]

Or "whiskey" as Woodford spells it on the bottle in the photo and is the more generally accepted spelling for bourbon and, as I recall, other American whiskey, and Irish whiskey, as opposed to Scotch and Canadian, which are generally spelled "whisky." Although there are certainly American bourbon makes that spell it "whisky," in particular, Maker's Mark! Good notes, though, everyone.


I am going to file a potentially obnoxious dissent. I apologize in advance if I am being overly disagreeable. My personal preference is to use very good ingredients for mixed drinks, at home anyway. I guess I am not up for calling brands when I am out so much. I use fresh juices only, I make my own grenadine, I most often make my own syrups/mixers of all types. I generally use Cointreau or even nicer orange-based liqueur in margaritas. I am not going to use an inferior spirit in drinks I make as an inferior spirit will bring down the drink when it should be bringing the drink up. I do not believe the other ingredients I use are going to mask imperfections in the spirit. But that said, any real French Cognac is going to be very good. The French regulate Cognac very tightly and a VS Cognac is still a high quality spirit. Actually I tend to use Costco's Cognac and I agree with everything RayClem says. And I do not think I would go for much longer aged Cognacs with fuller flavors and more oak. I do think additional oak is not going to be all that useful in the brandy/Cognac drinks I can think of.

As for tequila, Costco's tequila's are not bad either. I tend to think that life is too short to drink bad tequila and good mixers are not going to cover for a bad one. I would not use a tequila that is not 100% agave. I also tend toward reposados, which have a bit of age and a bit of wood, not necessarily oak. For the most part, I do not love anejos to begin with. I personally do not think tequila benefits from a lot of wood, whether oak or something else--his may be a minority view--and in my view a margarita does not. On the other hand, I think a tequila made with the best of ingredients otherwise will be made all the better by an excellent tequila and the flavors of that tequila will shine through. And if I am going to sip some aged spirit, it is more likely going to be something besides tequila. But, again, this is just my opinion. Unlike Cognac, the quality of tequila and the price points are not always closely correlated.

I am sorry for all the caveats, but as I write this, everything I say seems to have exceptions. Costco has had a remarkably inexpensive anejo tequila I like a lot, that seems to me to be of excellent quality and to not be very oaky. I have definitely used that one in Margaritas. Seems like a real bargain to me.

YMMV

Great thread.

Unfortunately, I agree with you... I can taste the difference in my margaritas if I use the cheap stuff, so......... I use Don Julio Reposado and Cointreau or Combier... I add Gran Gala because with that one, I can't tell the difference between Gran Marnier and Gran Gala so I save a few bucks there. Always use fresh squeezed lime juice.

 

[TexLaw]

Single Malt Scotch and Single Barrel Bourbon will never be the same from batch to batch, but that is part of the tasting adventure.

I agree with you if it's something from a single cask. However, single malts virtually always are blends (just have to be from the same distiller) and are rather consistent.

 

[luvmysuper]

I am not going to use an inferior spirit in drinks I make as an inferior spirit will bring down the drink when it should be bringing the drink up.

I agree with you... I can taste the difference in my margaritas if I use the cheap stuff,

The secret is to make the drinks strong enough so that you only taste the difference in the first one.
After that, every single one of them is superb!

 

[RayClem]

Unfortunately, I agree with you... I can taste the difference in my margaritas if I use the cheap stuff, so......... I use Don Julio Reposado and Cointreau or Combier... I add Gran Gala because with that one, I can't tell the difference between Gran Marnier and Gran Gala so I save a few bucks there. Always use fresh squeezed lime juice.

When making margaritas I add Sauza Hornitos 100% Agave Resposado and either Cointreau or Grand Marnier. By the way, Cointreau is a Triple Sec and Grand Marnier combines Triple Sec and cognac. I prefer the Grand Marnier because I like the character cognac provides. Grand Gala is similar to Grand Marnier, but has Italian brandy at the core. Combier is a Triple Sec, so it is more like Contreau.

My point was that using a extra old Anejo or an XO cognac for mixed drinks is not necessary. Many "experts" recommend using Silver or Blanco tequilla for margaritas. I made the mistake of buying a house margarita one time made from blanco tequila and triple sec. It was so bad I sent it back. If I am going to order a margarita, I will pay extra for one made with quality ingredients.

 

[Phoenixkh]

When making margaritas I add Sauza Hornitos 100% Agave Resposado and either Cointreau or Grand Marnier. By the way, Cointreau is a Triple Sec and Grand Marnier combines Triple Sec and cognac. I prefer the Grand Marnier because I like the character cognac provides. Grand Gala is similar to Grand Marnier, but has Italian brandy at the core. Combier is a Triple Sec, so it is more like Contreau.

My point was that using a extra old Anejo or an XO cognac for mixed drinks is not necessary. Many "experts" recommend using Silver or Blanco tequilla for margaritas. I made the mistake of buying a house margarita one time made from blanco tequila and triple sec. It was so bad I sent it back. If I am going to order a margarita, I will pay extra for one made with quality ingredients.

I use both Gran Gala and either Cointreau or Combier.... an ounce of each.. and one and a half ounces of tequila... but there are many recipes. I sort of developed my own after interviewing a few bartenders at a few of our favorite Mexican restaurants.

I don't like the oak taste of the Anejos and I don't care for brandy on its own. I'm not much of a drinker, truth be told. I petty much like just margaritas... and every so often, a vodka and grapefruit juice. I don't have a sophisticated palette. But like you, I've had margaritas made with inferior ingredients and I can taste that immediately. So I always specify.

 

[The Knize]

The secret is to make the drinks strong enough so that you only taste the difference in the first one.
After that, every single one of them is superb!

That was my step father-in-law's concept as to Scotch. First glass of real Chivas. Second of cheap Scotch "decanted" into a Chivas bottle. His theory was that after the first Scotch no one could taste the difference in the second. I humbly disagree!

 

[Doc4]

My personal preference is to use very good ingredients for mixed drinks, ...

I use fresh juices only, I make my own grenadine, I most often make my own syrups/mixers of all types. I generally use Cointreau or even nicer orange-based liqueur in margaritas.

I am not going to use an inferior spirit in drinks I make as an inferior spirit will bring down the drink when it should be bringing the drink up. I do not believe the other ingredients I use are going to mask imperfections in the spirit.

An uncommon opinion for uncommon circumstances.

I think most people think of "mixed drinks" as some variant of "... and coke", where they are basically wanting to "booze up" a soda pop and maybe put a maraschino cherry on the top with a little umbrella if they are feeling fancy. It's sort of like making a Big Mac with kobe beef if you use a really good liquor, and the qualities and nuances that make the premium hootch worth the premium are totally obliterated by the soda-pop.

However, what you describe is a more attentive approach to mixed drinks, where you are using quality ingredients throughout and it only makes sense to use a quality liquor as well.

Now, that being said, I still think that mixed drinks are not the place for the really high-end liquors that command a real premium. So if you were making a cocktail that called for scotch, I would certainly understand you using Johnnie Walker Black rather than Johnnie Walker Red ... or perhaps opting for an "entry level" single malt like Glenlivet or Glenfiddich. But the $300 bottle of 21-year-old single malt? ... nah, save that one for savouring neat.

 

[Doc4]

That was my step father-in-law's concept as to Scotch. First glass of real Chivas. Second of cheap Scotch "decanted" into a Chivas bottle. His theory was that after the first Scotch no one could taste the difference in the second. I humbly disagree!

There are three kinds of guests ... those who drink to get a buzz (or worse), those who drink socially to lubricate the gathering, and those who "into" enjoying the subtle nuances of the flavour notes yada yada yada.

Category one, they are going for volume, so you might as well start them on the cheap stuff right from the get-go, and they will be far more impressed with the strength of the drink rather than the quality of the booze.

Category two, they are there for the social gathering rather than the drinking, so probably will appreciate the quality of the conversation far more than the quality of the booze. They probably don't drink too much, so Chivas all the way through.

Category three ... pretty few and far between. The one exception would be if you know a bunch and have them over together for a liquor-themed-evening where the focus of everyone's conversation will be the liquor served. You need something more obscure than Chivas.

 

[The Knize]

I like Gran Gala, too. I am a little torn on whether to use anything but a pure orange cordial in a Margarita. I seem to go back and forth. I tend to think Gran Gala is as good to my tastes as Grand Marnier for Margarita purposes. For that matter, Cointreau seems a little over priced and overrated to me. It really is a pretty simple, plain orange and sugar cordial. I forget what I have been using. Certainly Combier is as good.

An uncommon opinion for uncommon circumstances.

Thanks, Ian. I think you and I are on the same page. I was not thinking about what I would be serving a crowd. More what I would serve pre-dinner at small dinner get together, where I was serving something special for dinner. I have been having fun with "mixology" for a decade or more. So it would be where I was trying to be special, I guess. Although, for instance, for rum and Coke, I think I would serve a rum, maybe not a hugely expensive one but one I really liked and there are very fairly priced quality rums out there, with Mexican or Kosher for Passover Coke, and a partial scorched stick of cinnamon, a dash of bitters, and a squeeze of lime.

Now, that being said, I still think that mixed drinks are not the place for the really high-end liquors that command a real premium. So if you were making a cocktail that called for scotch, I would certainly understand you using Johnnie Walker Black rather than Johnnie Walker Red ... or perhaps opting for an "entry level" single malt like Glenlivet or Glenfiddich. But the $300 bottle of 21-year-old single malt? ... nah, save that one for savouring neat.

Absolutely! Actually, unless it is a Rusty Nail, I am not going to be making a cocktail with Scotch at all! My own prejudice and I guess I have had a good Blood and Sand and maybe even a good Rob Roy, but Scotch in a cocktail somehow seems sacrilege to me. Long-aged spirits with their wood notes seem better suited for savouring neat to me, too. Here is one for you, if you were going to make a champagne cocktail, and you were using real champagne, which I have taken to doing, and you had a variety of cognacs available, how expensive on the cognac would you consider going, say for a drink with someone you knew would appreciate it? Like I said before, all Cognac is quite good. But real champagne? Maybe leave off the cherry and cut the sugar, but I could see going pretty expensive with the Cognac, assuming it was just sitting there in the bottle! For one thing you are not using that much. I am just not sure.

I like your three categories of guests. The thing with my step father-in-law was a while back. He was a man of some means, and was aiming to impress with Chivas. I do not think anyone I know these days is going to be impressed with Chivas. For a large number of people, I do not know what I would pour. For a small dinner, some interesting but not outrageous single malt, I think. Maybe just something like a Talisker 10. But normally there are not that many Scotch dinners anyway. With a friend who I know loves whisky, the sky is the limit as to whatever I have sitting around. Probably some not uncommon 18 year old is the best I have these days. I am sure as heck not going to be putting cheap Scotch into bottle from better Scotch!