Scanning Electron Microscope Blade Edge Images

[poikkeus]

I love this thread, but I have a question I hope someone will answer. How does one "read" an electron microscope image? How does the image impact sharpness, comfort, and shaver? Without this information, all we have here are lots of images.

Help, anyone?

 

[Evil4blue]

I love this thread, but I have a question I hope someone will answer. How does one "read" an electron microscope image? How does the image impact sharpness, comfort, and shaver? Without this information, all we have here are lots of images.

Help, anyone?

The images have no direct correlation to blade sharpness or comfort, only you face can be the final judge on those properties. What the images do provide is a visual reference of the different manufacturing processes that the different manufactures use.

Say you really enjoy using Polsilver SI blades, but don't like the cost. Then you notice that Polsivers look similar to Personna Reds or Perma-Sharps so then maybe it's worth trying those blades and seeing if they feel similar on your face, but at a lower price.

These images are intended to be for reference only and not the be-all in determining your next great blade. Hope than helps.

 

[poikkeus]

That does help - thanks! With so many variables in choosing a blade, this helps zone in on the things that matter to me.

 

[RoadKing2438]

Very cool thread. Were you ever able to see if palm stropping had any effect on the blades?

 

[daedpa]

Very cool thread. Very you ever able to see if palm stropping had any effect on the blades?

I would like to know too please.

 

[Evil4blue]

I haven't done the palm stropping yet but did do some jean stropping. You can see those images here:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...des-(SEM-Comparison)?highlight=jean+stropping

 

[chrisf8657]

Evil4blue thank you for taking the time to put these up. Very interesting...

 

[mistercitizen]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing Steve!!

Ben

 

[Evil4blue]

I've been really busy at work lately so I hadn't had a lot of time to do more blade scanning, but I found a few minutes this morning and thanks to vferdman I have some new blades to look at.

First up, Super-Max Super Platinum (fresh from package):



Super-Max SP Elemental Analysis:



Next, Treet Platinum (fresh from package):



Treet Elemental Analysis:



Lastly, Dorco Stainless (fresh from package):



Dorco Elemental Analysis:



All 3 of these blades look to have a fair amount of oil/staining straight out of the package. I haven't had a change to run them through my normal cleaning process yet, but I'm sure they'll clean up just fine.

The Super-Max's edge looks a little rough, even at only 150x. Both the other blades look to have a straighter edge. I'm not sure how this will affect a shave though, since there are quite a few Dorco reviews that claim that blade is not very sharp, and there are a fair number of Super-Max fans.

The Treet blade appears to have a pretty thick and poorly applied poly coating. I'll be interested if some of that cleans up with my IPA cleaning treatment.

Lastly, you'll notice that neither the Super-Max or Treet appears to have any platinum in the coating/alloy. I would venture to saw that both companies are using the word "Platinum" as a rating rather than composition.

Enjoy!

 

[dharasick]

Loving this thread!

Steve, any plans for more on edge pictures? Are these significantly harder to produce?

 

[Evil4blue]

Loving this thread!

Steve, any plans for more on edge pictures? Are these significantly harder to produce?

Yes and yes. I plan on doing a Shark SS vs Shark SC also a Super-Max Titanium vs Platinum. It takes me about 2 hrs to do each of these comparisons because I usually clean the razors in a sonicating bath prior to mounted the blades on edge for the edge images.

It's been really busy at work lately and I just haven't had the time to do it. I'm sure it'll slow down soon since our work is very cyclical.

 

[Cl3anShav3]

@Evil4blue Thank you for for all your pictures and comments. This is a great thread

 

[dharasick]

Yes and yes. I plan on doing a Shark SS vs Shark SC also a Super-Max Titanium vs Platinum. It takes me about 2 hrs to do each of these comparisons because I usually clean the razors in a sonicating bath prior to mounted the blades on edge for the edge images.

It's been really busy at work lately and I just haven't had the time to do it. I'm sure it'll slow down soon since our work is very cyclical.

Great! Looking forward to them!

 

[Luecke2326]

Just read the entire post and wow, very interesting. You may be able to broker world peace with this information!

 

[wstail13]

This makes me want to do some SEM-EDS of some blades too. However, I am just a user at my university's SEM/TEM facility. I could sneak in images when I do jobs, but here they nickel and dime everything used in preparing samples. So, I would have to figure out to do some of the prep in our labs.

There really is not much I can add to what is already been discussed concerning the images. Evil's other threads, with a closer look at the edge, are better at comparing the blades. It is interesting to see how fine the grind is and isn't on the bevels between blades. Like the Feathers being one of the sharpest blades, but grind on the primary bevel looks rough. Again the magic happens at the edge, so its important to look there. Also, I find it funny how Teflon coatings can get pretty caked above the edge on some these blades. I wonder if some do a final polish of the edge after coating.

I have a comment on the EDS of Pt on the blades. Sometimes for SEM imaging, Pt is used as a conductive coating, but it shows up on EDS analysis. Since companies keep want to keep costs down, I would think the Pt coatings are no thicker than what is used for SEM sample preparation, which I think is a few hundred nanometers. Evil4blue should have a better answer, because I don't use Pt on my samples. If the coatings are thin enough, which suspect they are, then they won't really show on the EDS.

I am surprised I have not see other elements in the carbon steels. Some impurities are not tightly controlled in carbon steels as stainless steels or nickel based alloys. I can also see the presence of Manganese (Mn) in the EDS spectra of the stainless steel blades. I have heard some manufactures use 400 series stainless steel for their DE Blades. 400 Series Stainless will have around 1% by weight Mn and show up in the EDS. If you compare the smaller Cr peak in a carbon vs stainless steel, then the smaller Cr peak is a little wider in a stainless steel because the peak for Mn is right next to it and it shows as one peak.

@Evil4blue: I would like to talk more about SEM/EDS as I am wondering if your SEM has a field emission gun. I wouldn't mind putting it on the thread as others can learn.

 

[mblakele]

I am surprised I have not see other elements in the carbon steels. Some impurities are not tightly controlled in carbon steels as stainless steels or nickel based alloys. I can also see the presence of Manganese (Mn) in the EDS spectra of the stainless steel blades. I have heard some manufactures use 400 series stainless steel for their DE Blades. 400 Series Stainless will have around 1% by weight Mn and show up in the EDS. If you compare the smaller Cr peak in a carbon vs stainless steel, then the smaller Cr peak is a little wider in a stainless steel because the peak for Mn is right next to it and it shows as one peak.

According to a brochure I have from Uddeholm, their AEB-L razor blade steel is 13% Chromium, 0.67% Carbon, 0.4% Si, and 0.6% Mn. They also specify maximum impurity levels of 0.025% Phosphorus and 0.015% Sulfur. That is close to some of the 400 series martensitic steels, but I think it does not quite match any of them exactly.

Uddeholm also specifies that AEB-L is "almost free" of primary carbides larger than 3 microns, and that 1000x magnification shows at least 55 secondary carbides per 100 square microns. They also specify maximum content of non-metallic oxide inclusions, referring to DIN 50602.

 

[wstail13]

I guess I am using impurities wrong. I am talking about ad Nickel, Aluminum, Titanium, Vanadium, Cobalt, and other stuff they use to tweak the alloy properties. Carbon steels are judged by their carbon content, so I would think Carbon steels would vary, but perhaps they all use what works or have the same supplier.

I used the 1% figure loosely as they are many varieties for 400 Series Stainless Steel (SS). After closer look, 1 % is a maximum limit for 400 Series SS. Perhaps Uddehlom felt or determined those concentrations work best. As long as the composition and treatment is within certain guidelines, it can be classified by as a some grade of SS.

 

[HonerSimpson]

... Also, I find it funny how Teflon coatings can get pretty caked above the edge on some these blades....

I think you will find that most of the 'cake' comes off with the first swipe of the blade. Maybe a short cut of the blade through some paper would clean the bulk of the coating off and allow a better of view of the business end of the blade.

 

[Fz_Rider1]

Would be very interesting to see some blades before/after being used.

Also, I've wondered what a used blade would look like before/after palm stropping or something like that.

+1, would love to see and before and after.

 

[Evil4blue]

I've been really swamped at work and haven't had an opportunity to continue this particular line of analysis. As for the EDS analysis that I post with each new blade, remember that this analysis only looks at the surface of the blade and has no real penetration. The numbers shown would be really rough estimates of what the blade is composed of, but by no means should be considered gospel.

@ wstail13 - you're more than welcome to contribute to these threads with your own scans and analysis. I'm sure the readers herein would be interested in anything you had to offer.