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Scale/wedge repair

Hi All,
Seeking some opinions on repairs needed for a recently-acquired ERN 1166.
As purchased the main concern was chips near the toe. Being a bottom feeder, I saw this as an opportunity to get an example of this razor for below the price of a shave-ready version.

The chip issue is pretty much taken care of
Before
72D740C8-3CB3-4ECB-89C3-CD47D9991C79.jpeg

After - OK, not entirely done, there are still 2 tiny chips near the toe and just in front of the heel.
4D9E44EE-22A3-4AFC-8B89-378717BABF0B.jpeg


Before moving forward with the blade I need to address two other issues:
1) A pretty decent crack in the back slide scale at the pivot pin.
F4F8CBFA-540C-4743-B23B-A601389312C9.jpeg


2nd issue is that even though this appears to be all original parts, the blade toe is clearly banging into the wedge. In fact this very well could be the source of all the chips at the toe. The blade does close completely, but only because it jams into a gap between the wedge and scale.
89813A0B-DD54-4D56-9018-076FC4D91DEE.jpeg



So I want to address both issues. I was not planning to remove the pins on this razor because I think they are original. However
1) I am concerned that trying to glue closed the crack at the pivot pin will likely get glue onto the pin or the tang of the blade
2) I know that if I pull the pin at the wedge I can sand down the wedge in a few minutes. It wouldn’t be impossible to do this without pulling the scales apart, but it will be much more difficult, particularly with the specific tools that I have available.
3) Also the scales are a bit warped, and my thought is that this would be easier to fix if I pull off the scales.

So 3 good reasons to pull the pins.

The downside of pulling the pins is that while I am pretty good at repinning, my track record is that I often wreck the scales in the process. So I prefer to only pull the pins when I plan on scrapping the scales. In this case the show side scale does have the molded-in crown and sword emblem, so I would like to preserve. Also the show side scale is still in great condition. For sure if I do remove the pins I will attack from the back side scale.

I’m about 90% convinced that I should pull the pins, but thought it wise to reach out for other opinions.
Thanks,
Marty
 
Before moving forward with the blade I need to address two other issues:
1) A pretty decent crack in the back slide scale at the pivot pin.

2nd issue is that even though this appears to be all original parts, the blade toe is clearly banging into the wedge. In fact this very well could be the source of all the chips at the toe. The blade does close completely, but only because it jams into a gap between the wedge and scale.

So I want to address both issues. I was not planning to remove the pins on this razor because I think they are original. However
1) I am concerned that trying to glue closed the crack at the pivot pin will likely get glue onto the pin or the tang of the blade
2) I know that if I pull the pin at the wedge I can sand down the wedge in a few minutes. It wouldn’t be impossible to do this without pulling the scales apart, but it will be much more difficult, particularly with the specific tools that I have available.
3) Also the scales are a bit warped, and my thought is that this would be easier to fix if I pull off the scales.
To me the crack would probably decide what needs to be done. Is it structural in that does the blade flop around? If not then 1 mark in the don't unpin side.
The other big thing is just how much clearance are we talking about? A small file sometimes has a serration on the edge that could be used to get in there and file the wedge. The problem with this is that you have one grit to work with, the file. I don't know what grit files are but I'd imagine maybe 80?
The other option is I suppose you could re-reprofile (not a typo) the toe to make it fit. Again if we're talking a mm I might re-profile it but if it's a few I'd pull the pins and sand the wedge. A round toe could have 1mm taken off where no one would know but you. That current profile could be altered so that none of the current cutting edge is affected.

Maybe cut pieces of sandpaper matchstick thin and glue them to the side of a thick coffee stirrer or ice cream stick. That way you have a number of grits to work with and get at that wedge.

I can't tell from the pix but are they plastic scales? I've heard of horn shrinkage but not enough to cause this. ERN's are usually plastic so it makes me wonder if they're original as plastic doesn't really shrink.

The downside of pulling the pins is that while I am pretty good at repinning, my track record is that I often wreck the scales in the process. So I prefer to only pull the pins when I plan on scrapping the scales.
If you do pull them and are worried about repeening just use 4 pieces of tape and tape off all the scale apart from the actual pin.
Or you can polish away any damage if you do scuff the scales.


I’m about 90% convinced that I should pull the pins, but thought it wise to reach out for other opinions.
Thanks,
Marty
The final thing I can think of is the warp you mention. Is it enough to need to pull the pins of can you either live with it or fix it without unpinning?
 
Thanks @Bevel
On the pivot pin: The scales are quite loose when the blade is closed. When it is fully open the scales bind quite tight and the crack opens up. So I would say its a structural issue that needs fixing.

On the wedge: I agree that this could be done by taking metal off of the toe, but its a 7/8 razor and I would need to take a mm or more off of most of that height.

The scales are plastic. The distance between pins is about 0.2” longer than on “generic” scales, so while I could make scales from scratch if needed, none of my ready-made scales will work. The warp is actually pretty significant, but it is worst along the bottom edge, so the blade actually closes fairly well other than whacking into the wedge.

BB7605E9-0F68-420B-B483-D138EF7EC764.jpeg
 
Thanks @Bevel
On the pivot pin: The scales are quite loose when the blade is closed. When it is fully open the scales bind quite tight and the crack opens up. So I would say its a structural issue that needs fixing.

On the wedge: I agree that this could be done by taking metal off of the toe, but its a 7/8 razor and I would need to take a mm or more off of most of that height.

The scales are plastic. The distance between pins is about 0.2” longer than on “generic” scales, so while I could make scales from scratch if needed, none of my ready-made scales will work. The warp is actually pretty significant, but it is worst along the bottom edge, so the blade actually closes fairly well other than whacking into the wedge.
On the pivot pin: Yeah sounds like you'll need to unpin if that crack is opening at all. You could use the sodaglue TM trick as that sets as strong as concrete and sand it back to flat again on the inside. Superglue alone would probably fix it too but something like that needs to be fixed from the inside to make it invisible or close to it.

On the wedge: why would you need to take anything off the 7/8ths? Maybe I'm missing something but I envision zero gone.
Excuse the crap pictures but it looks to me like you could take several mm, maybe 2mm off the round point without going anywhere near the actual cutting edge. You could even go to pic 2 where the right hand side of the circle is just beginning to touch the cutting edge. 3 or 4 mm could go there and if done right you'd never know if was done.
1660328759905.png
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On the scales: Ah warped at the bottom but not along the length that's no problem as long as the edge isn't touching the scales on the inside.
I have one razor that does that, my Satinedge, but the edge doesn't touch so I don't care. I actually straightened these when I was restoring it and it was fine for a while but they eventually reverted back to the same as yours. I mustn't have got the "memory" part of the warp out at the time but I'm blaming the 3rd pin. These scales were off the razor for a few weeks and stayed straight until I put it back together again.
Here's mine and it causes no problems so I ain't going to fix it.
PXL_20220812_183814562.MP.jpg
Now that I got it out again I can use it in my "razors I haven't used in ages" theme, thanks as I was wondering what to use next and it was in a box I haven't gone near in a while where there are a few other lovelies.
 
On the pivot pin: Yeah sounds like you'll need to unpin if that crack is opening at all. You could use the sodaglue TM trick as that sets as strong as concrete and sand it back to flat again on the inside. Superglue alone would probably fix it too but something like that needs to be fixed from the inside to make it invisible or close to it.

On the wedge: why would you need to take anything off the 7/8ths? Maybe I'm missing something but I envision zero gone.
Excuse the crap pictures but it looks to me like you could take several mm, maybe 2mm off the round point without going anywhere near the actual cutting edge. You could even go to pic 2 where the right hand side of the circle is just beginning to touch the cutting edge. 3 or 4 mm could go there and if done right you'd never know if was done.
View attachment 1503764View attachment 1503766
This is correct - I can remove material without impacting the edge. The work done so far was done by hand with 400 grit W/D. If I want to remove that much metal I’m going to have to step it up a notch!

At this point I think I’m decided - remove both pins, grind down the wedge, glue the crack, and perhaps try to remove the warp. As you comment the warp is not the worst thing, I didn’t even notice it the first few days that I was working with the razor.
 
This is correct - I can remove material without impacting the edge. The work done so far was done by hand with 400 grit W/D. If I want to remove that much metal I’m going to have to step it up a notch!
I don't normally use the words dremel and Straight razor in the same sentence but it will fix it in less than 5 mins and that's doing it carefully. It's one of those jobs I'm happy to use a dremel for and I hold it in my right hand like I would a paring knife, gives supreme control with both arms resting on my knees for stability. I'd still tape the edge though.
As you comment the warp is not the worst thing, I didn’t even notice it the first few days that I was working with the razor.
I only noticed after it wouldn't stand up on its own anymore, I was like what the hell when it kept falling over so I glanced at the underside and spotted it. I've no intention of fixing it as it's purely cosmetic.
 

Legion

Staff member
Personally I would just rescale the razor. Those scales look shot. Cracked, warped AND shrunk.

I appreciate you trying to save and keep a vintage item as original as possible, but sometimes you have to pick your battles.
 
One scale has shrunk more than the other, if you are going to un-pin make or buy a new set of scales.

Look at the pivot pin, the distance the pin has moved added to the amount of clearance you will need for the toe is how much it has shrunk, about 2-3mm. You need to re-scale.

Or with a hacksaw blade and inexpensive jeweler’s file cut the wedge back to allow for blade clearance, you can make a “safe” file by taping the sides with duct tape, so only the edge is cutting.

It is easy to do and will not take long. Gluing a pivot pin crack is a short time solution at best, but with one scale shorter than the other, the scales are under a lot of tension. When you open the razor the scales flex even more. Eventually the scales will split at the crack.

The shrinkage was likely the source of the toe damage. Time for new scales.
 
You’ve done a nice job cleaning up the toe. To me the scales look shot. This would be a good candidate for a rescale. It would look good in translucent acrylic.
 
You’ve done a nice job cleaning up the toe. To me the scales look shot. This would be a good candidate for a rescale. It would look good in translucent acrylic.
So I was going to use some Padauk, but now you got me thinking… I do still have half a sq ft of light blue translucent acrylic… it would be nice to see the blade etching through a translucent scale.

Update. I did remove the scales. And yet again I struggled to remove the pins without damaging the rear scale. I think the real challenge is the lack of a drill press. The drill bit keeps sliding off the pin as I try to drill it out.
 
Flatten the pin head with a fine file and use a Pin Vise and a new 1/16th in bit.

A handheld pin vise will give you lots of control and prevent damaging the scale. A Pin Vise is about $10, I like the ones with a ball end that fits in the palm of your hand and allows you infinite control of the pressure.

Pins are soft brass or nickel silver and drill easily. You can un-pin, make scales and re-pin all with hand tools easily. Horn is an excellent material for your first pair of scales, it is inexpensive, super easy to work, finishes to a bright finish easily with hand tools and comes in a variety of colors and highlights.

When you do get a drill press, use a center drill to at least start the hole, not a drill bit. A single flute, center drill/counter sink, allows you to drill a straight hole and remove the pin head slowly. Center Drills are thicker and will not flex, like a 1/16th inch drill bit will.

Often you can remove the pin head completely with the Center drill, or once you have a centered deep divot, then you can switch to a drill bit that will not jump out of the hole and mar a scale.

If you use translucent plastic, make thrust washer from PETE from a clear plastic water bottle with a leather punch, to keep the pivot from becoming black.
 
Flatten the pin head with a fine file and use a Pin Vise and a new 1/16th in bit.

A handheld pin vise will give you lots of control and prevent damaging the scale. A Pin Vise is about $10, I like the ones with a ball end that fits in the palm of your hand and allows you infinite control of the pressure.

Pins are soft brass or nickel silver and drill easily. You can un-pin, make scales and re-pin all with hand tools easily. Horn is an excellent material for your first pair of scales, it is inexpensive, super easy to work, finishes to a bright finish easily with hand tools and comes in a variety of colors and highlights.

When you do get a drill press, use a center drill to at least start the hole, not a drill bit. A single flute, center drill/counter sink, allows you to drill a straight hole and remove the pin head slowly. Center Drills are thicker and will not flex, like a 1/16th inch drill bit will.

Often you can remove the pin head completely with the Center drill, or once you have a centered deep divot, then you can switch to a drill bit that will not jump out of the hole and mar a scale.

If you use translucent plastic, make thrust washer from PETE from a clear plastic water bottle with a leather punch, to keep the pivot from becoming black.
OK, I’m not familiar with a pin vise, will look into it. I do have a center drill and I agree it will work better than a regular drill bit.
 
Center drills are not made for use in a hand drill, because of the single flute. The 1/8th in drills a 1/16th inch hole.

A pin vise is a holder for a drill bit. Once you file the head flat, and center punch a divot you can easily drill the pin head by hand. I keep a 1/8th inch tapered diamond burr in one for tapering pin holes, keep scales from splitting.

I have several and keep different bits in each one, rather than change bits, they are $2-10, depending on where you buy them.

This is the style pin vise I like. Diamond burr bit are also inexpensive.

de3b8187-ed4f-5b1f-b38a-ea221e3da56c__81354.jpg
414tVfC+ROL._AC_.jpg
 
Pins are soft brass or nickel silver and drill easily. You can un-pin, make scales and re-pin all with hand tools easily.

When you do get a drill press, use a center drill to at least start the hole, not a drill bit.
Pins can become much harder just from the peening process. There's a name for it but I can't remember.

Sometimes I'd love a center drill but from a drill press perspective I have the dremel drill press so unfortunately that option's out.
OK, I’m not familiar with a pin vise, will look into it. I do have a center drill and I agree it will work better than a regular drill bit.
Pin vises are simply drill bit holders, they have their uses. Any bits that come with the vice tend to be bad but you can use better brands in them.
PXL_20220311_152808598.jpg

If I want to remove scales without damaging them I usually use a diamond ball burr in a dremel.
Always flatten the head first and start with light touches to make sure you're centered then start applying pressure.
The below picture is about 90% through the process and the scales came off undamaged about 5 mins later but I spend about 20% of the time on the last 10% of the process especially if I'm trying to save washers. In the below I was not.
If, as you said, you already have a center drill (but no press) the below picture is the ultimate divot and you could safely free hand the rest of the way with just the weight of the drill.
PXL_20220419_104944144.MP.jpg
 
Looks like I need to go to Amazon or a hardware store.

I have my grandfather’s old Dremel toolbox just dug thru it, no diamond ball burr, though I did find a tiny little fluted ball burr (I think that’s what it is).

EB63AE23-2880-4310-9EF1-1624102DE809.jpeg
CB28935B-A043-4693-B845-3A169C86815C.jpeg
 
Well,
Having fun digging through my grandfather’s box. It looks like a fair number of the bits are 3/32” shank, which won’t work in my Dremel. However there are some 1/8” shank parts that probably could work. I am inspired to sort through this box and transfer a few things from my Dremel case, which is too overfilled to close easily.

@Bevel - I think the term you were looking for (hardening metal through hammering) is “work hardening”.

I have been using a file to flatten the pin. However I fail in two way with dimpling the starter hole.
1) I try to make a dimple with an awl and hammer and rarely get the dimple centered.
2) The mark made with the awl is rarely big enough for the center drill to seat and so the drill bit goes skittering off to the side as soon as I pull the trigger.
 
Looks like I need to go to Amazon or a hardware store.

I have my grandfather’s old Dremel toolbox just dug thru it, no diamond ball burr, though I did find a tiny little fluted ball burr (I think that’s what it is).
That bit you have there is, I think, an engraver and, unless you have strong steady hands, will tend to grab and wander. A classic for slipping and gouging the scales.
Here is engraver bits next to the burr type bits your looking for. The burrs, I think, came in one of those 150 piece kits you can get in most hardware shops.
PXL_20220814_141706950.jpg


Well,
Having fun digging through my grandfather’s box. It looks like a fair number of the bits are 3/32” shank, which won’t work in my Dremel. However there are some 1/8” shank parts that probably could work. I am inspired to sort through this box and transfer a few things from my Dremel case, which is too overfilled to close easily.

@Bevel - I think the term you were looking for (hardening metal through hammering) is “work hardening”.

I have been using a file to flatten the pin. However I fail in two way with dimpling the starter hole.
1) I try to make a dimple with an awl and hammer and rarely get the dimple centered.
2) The mark made with the awl is rarely big enough for the center drill to seat and so the drill bit goes skittering off to the side as soon as I pull the trigger.
You "might" be able to use the slightly larger bits in the dremel if you have the "Chuck" attachment used for drill bits.

Work hardening, yeah I think that's the term I was looking for.

1) Doing what I said earlier is probably best with the ball burr in that you just touch the pin with the spinning ball on medium/low speed and inspect. If you're not centered try again until you are, then add the pressure.
2) I gave up with an awl or center punch long ago. You could use a pinvice + small bit to start the hole. A centerpunch is right out. I tried once and it slipped with the downward pressure, landed on the scales and then it went off to F'up the scales.

The best is:
If the scales are damaged and need sanding or replacing save yourself a whole lot of time and go with flush cutters.
If scales are good and you have a good drill press (not the dremel one) with a new sharp bit use that after filing pin flat.
If scales are good and you want to save collars as well the smallest ball burr in the pic above is good. you can start a fool proof divot and ether go all the way or switch to a bit that would have otherwise wobbled all over the place without the divot.
 
Pin heads can get work hardened by peening, but it is usually only the surface. Once you flatten the pin head and removed the bulk of the head, you are into softer material.

If you are going to use a Dremel, invest in a $15 flex shaft, it will give you infinitely more control for delicate work. For insurance, using a Dremel and ball to remove a pin head, make a mask, strip of a soda can or plastic water bottle with a hole the size of the pin head. Tape the mask to the razor securely by taping over the pin and around the razor with good clear packing tape. So, when you slip…

The mask is also good insurance when filing the pin head flat.

Use a new, sharp drill bit, I buy 1/16 bits in bulk, years ago I bought a gang load of good ones on sale, I think they are Cobalt. Probably from Texas Knife. If you buy in bulk, they are much cheaper, and I am more likely to grab a new bit for precision work.

A quick online search shows a dozen 1/16th inch Cobalt bits are $10-15. A buck a piece, a good investment to save a pair of Ivory or one of a kind scales.
 
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