Savon De Marseille

[EdT]

I'm familiar with the UPSM enterprise (brand) and its details (i.e. saponified plant oil/s, no animal-sourced material, made in Marseille region, cauldron method, fragrance-free, no dyes/preservatives).

What detail does Rampal Latour purportedly not respect?


(There's also AFSM - Association des Fabricants de Savon de Marseille.)

From what I can gather on Rampal Latour's website:
"notre savon de Marseille contient davantage de glycérine hydratante naturellement produite qu'un savon de Marseille classique "
Basically they are saying their soaps contain more glycerin than traditional SdM ...so is this glycerin added or left naturally ?

"Tous nos parfums sont 100% naturels. Par exemple, notre savonnette Olive-Lavandin contient de l'huile essentielle de lavandin, cultivée et distillée en Drôme provençale. Reconnu pour ses vertus antiseptiques et apaisantes, le lavandin parfume délicatement la peau par ses notes provençales ensoleillées. Concernant la couleur, nous n'utilisons que des pigments minéraux."

They admit to using perfumes, essential oils and dyes in their soaps !

If you look at the 11 members of AFSM - Association des Fabricants de Savon de Marseille they are pretty much small shops that process or reprocess soap shavings and flakes.

 

[ask4Edge]

From what I can gather on Rampal Latour's website:
"notre savon de Marseille contient davantage de glycérine hydratante naturellement produite qu'un savon de Marseille classique "
Basically they are saying their soaps contain more glycerin than traditional SdM ...so is this glycerin added or left naturally ?

RL's glycerin is completely natural and intrinsic to the soapmaking process (i.e. it’s not added). Because of this, the "designation under the (Marseille) term" holds. More on this, here.

"Tous nos parfums sont 100% naturels. Par exemple, notre savonnette Olive-Lavandin contient de l'huile essentielle de lavandin, cultivée et distillée en Drôme provençale. Reconnu pour ses vertus antiseptiques et apaisantes, le lavandin parfume délicatement la peau par ses notes provençales ensoleillées. Concernant la couleur, nous n'utilisons que des pigments minéraux."

They admit to using perfumes, essential oils and dyes in their soaps !

That quote is not in reference to RL’s genuine SdM, but to their other lines, which go through a completely different process.
RL's genuine SdM has no “perfumes, essential oils and dyes.”

(Similarly, UPSM companies have non-SdM lines, as well.)

...AFSM - Association des Fabricants de Savon de Marseille...

Rampal Latour isn’t a member of AFSM, but not because it (RL) doesn't meet charter criteria (it does); the same can be said of RL in relation to the UPSM enterprise.

 

[EdT]

RL's glycerin is completely natural and intrinsic to the soapmaking process (i.e. it’s not added). Because of this, the "designation under the (Marseille) term" holds. More on this, here.



That quote is not in reference to RL’s genuine SdM, but to their other lines, which go through a completely different process.
RL's genuine SdM has no “perfumes, essential oils and dyes.”

(Similarly, UPSM companies have non-SdM lines, as well.)


Rampal Latour isn’t a member of AFSM, but not because it (RL) doesn't meet charter criteria (it does); the same can be said of RL in relation to the UPSM enterprise.

Since the term Savons de Marseille (SdM) is not a registered controlled label anyone from anywhere can use it on their soaps no matter where it or how its made. This is why the four members of UPSM is trying to get a charter for the term "Savons de Marseille" to be a controlled term since 2014 as a protected national heritage product.

I guess if they make other types of soaps in their facilities they won't be accepted into the UPSM sort of like a Kosher or Halal facility.

I looked at the prices of RL's soaps and they are very very reasonably priced and I will try to get some once my inventory of SdM gets lower.

 

[ask4Edge]

I guess if they make other types of soaps in their facilities they won't be accepted into the UPSM sort of like a Kosher or Halal facility.

Just to clarify, all UPSM members make both SdM and non-SdM soaps. For example, Le Serail makes charter-compliant soaps (SdM with logo of authenticity), but they also make non-compliant ones (coloured, scented), in the same factory.

Since the term Savons de Marseille (SdM) is not a registered controlled label anyone from anywhere can use it on their soaps no matter where it or how its made. This is why the four members of UPSM is trying to get a charter for the term "Savons de Marseille" to be a controlled term since 2014 as a protected national heritage product.

Precisely. The vast majority of non-UPSM soaps are very far from the real McCoy.

I looked at the prices of RL's soaps and they are very very reasonably priced and I will try to get some once my inventory of SdM gets lower.

RL recently removed the palm oil from their (green) SdM, so it's now olivate/cocoate (vs olivate/cocoate/palmate).

 

[EdT]

Just to clarify, all UPSM members make both SdM and non-SdM soaps. For example, Le Serail makes charter-compliant soaps (SdM with logo of authenticity), but they also make non-compliant ones (coloured, scented), in the same factory.



Precisely. The vast majority of non-UPSM soaps are very far from the real McCoy.



RL recently removed the palm oil from their (green) SdM, so it's now olivate/cocoate (vs olivate/cocoate/palmate).

Yes I noticed Le Serail also makes both categories of soaps so now I am really confused why RL is not a member of the UPSM.
I got RL's response for this question, but it is still not clear:
"Nous avons choisi de ne pas faire partie de l’UPSM, association privée, qui a le mérite d’exister mais qui n’a aucun poids au niveau national comme le sont les labels nationaux comme l’IG par exemple."

They are are saying they choose not to be part of the UPSM as it is a private association with no national enforcement. This still does not answer the question why the members of the UPSM says RL does not follow the charter and why the majority of reports on SdM only refer to the four members of the UPSM as the last remaining genuine SdM manufacturers in France. I will try to ask the Musee de Savons for an explanation.

According to soap makers palm or coconut oil is normally added because it is actually the oil that best saponifys and adds hardness and lather qualities to olive oil soaps it's like adding pectin to jam making as an insurance that it will for sure gel. From what I read the 72% oil guarantee stamp on olive oil SdM does not mean it is 72% olive oil, it is normally 40%-50% olive oil mixed in with palm or coconut oil. The 100% olive oil claim is a bit misleading since you can add just a bit of olive oil and yes it is still 100% olive oil that was added, but it is not 100% of the composition of the bar of soap.

There is nothing wrong with using palm oil, just that Wokiests elements of society have now labelled it as bad for the environment because of deforestation.

 

[ask4Edge]

...why the majority of reports on SdM only refer to the four members of the UPSM as the last remaining genuine SdM manufacturers in France...

Partly related to marketing (brand positioning).

...100% olive oil...

The '100% olive oil' reflects the Minister of State's edict (of 1688) according to which only olive oils should be used in the making of SdM. Today of course, a soap devoid of olive oil altogether may still be considered "traditional" (e.g. Marius Fabre sunflower oil SdM, Fer à Cheval vegetal SdM, etcetera).

 

[EdT]

Partly related to marketing (brand positioning).

I don't mean from the four members of UPSM, but from historians in Provence, local media reports and government officials in Marseille.

 

[Herrenberg]

Thanks to this thread, I'm all in on this SdM/Aleppo soap thing. Thank you! I've got an SdM hand soap in the kitchen, um, "Kiss My Face" soap in my shave den, and some of the "Big 4" soap for when that's done. One cube is even aged. It's absolutely great. When you live in a desert, you start really noticing how much soaps can dry out your skin, and this stuff seems to do the opposite.

There's just one thing I don't understand. People talk about cutting up those big blocks of soap. How? Even my thinnest laser kitchen knife seems like it would just make it fragment into chunks, if it made any progress at all. A good piano wire garrote seems ideal, but I don't have one of those. How is it done?

 

[ask4Edge]

Per French wikipedia entry titled Rampal Latour (automated translation):
"It is one of the last five soap makers in the Marseille region to make Marseille soap using the so-called « Marseille » process."


Per French wikipedia entry titled Savon de Marseille (automated translation):
"In the Marseille-Provence region, there are currently five artisanal soap factories that respect the original recipe...Fer à Cheval...Savonnerie du Midi...Le Serail...Rampal Latour...Marius Fabre..."


Per myprovence.fr (automated translation):
"Authentic product...there are only 5 soap factories in Marseille and Salon-de-Provence in operation...Rampal Latour..."

 

[EdT]

Thanks to this thread, I'm all in on this SdM/Aleppo soap thing. Thank you! I've got an SdM hand soap in the kitchen, um, "Kiss My Face" soap in my shave den, and some of the "Big 4" soap for when that's done. One cube is even aged. It's absolutely great. When you live in a desert, you start really noticing how much soaps can dry out your skin, and this stuff seems to do the opposite.

There's just one thing I don't understand. People talk about cutting up those big blocks of soap. How? Even my thinnest laser kitchen knife seems like it would just make it fragment into chunks, if it made any progress at all. A good piano wire garrote seems ideal, but I don't have one of those. How is it done?

Which SdM do you have ?
You can only cut them with a metal wire when they are new and soft, once its aged and hard it would be difficult and require a saw ! ...LoL

 

[EdT]

Per French wikipedia entry titled Rampal Latour (automated translation):
"It is one of the last five soap makers in the Marseille region to make Marseille soap using the so-called « Marseille » process."


Per French wikipedia entry titled Savon de Marseille (automated translation):
"In the Marseille-Provence region, there are currently five artisanal soap factories that respect the original recipe...Fer à Cheval...Savonnerie du Midi...Le Serail...Rampal Latour...Marius Fabre..."


Per myprovence.fr (automated translation):
"Authentic product...there are only 5 soap factories in Marseille and Salon-de-Provence in operation...Rampal Latour..."

Yeah I saw that !

Savon de Marseille — Wikipédia

fr.wikipedia.org

 

[Herrenberg]

Which SdM do you have ?

Marius Fabre. Also, and I'm not sure what to make of this, an Alepia-brand cube of "Savon de Marseille Antique." I think that one is the most expensive soap I've ever bought, but I was curious about why anyone would age soap.

 

[EdT]

You mean this brand ? Looks like it's a second tier soap maker called Grand Master Savonnier Hassan Harastani that makes it and does not contain any laurel oil which is the whole point why Aleppo soap is expensive in the first place, might as well just get regular SdM without the big price tag.

Soap is aged so it becomes harder and more durable as moisture is evaporated from within the cube of soap and you get better lather as well, I want to try 60-70 year old aged SdM as I can only find 3-5 year old SdM in stores ...LoL