Samsung, T-Mobile, and 3G networks.

[neilxvx]

Alright, I'm posting this to hopefully get some advice, and to also vent my frustration.

I have T-mobile, have had it for 3 years. I like the provider, they have great customer service and have taken good care of me.

Yesterday, I decided to do a big upgrade in the type of phone I have. I'm going to be as forthcoming as I can. I had a Sidekick LX. The Sidekick LX is basically the fourth version of a line of Sidekicks, available exclusively from t-mobile. They are flip screen phones, and were one of the first of its types to have a flip screen, full QWERTY keyboard, and a few other things. However, the Sidekicks are a bit juvenile. I've had that type of phone since I was 18, and I'm now 21. They are cool phones, but they are very limited in their web browsing capabilities, because they are only available with GPRS (2G) connections. Here is a picture of the Sidekick LX

This is the most sleek and slim sidekick available. However, it's still fairly large compared to almost any phone in the modern market.

So, I was wanting something smaller, and with a 3G and/or wi-fi network.

T-mobile offers a few 3G and Wi-fi options, but two stick out. They are newer, and "better." Naturally, my decision came to one of these two.

This is called a G1.

It has a physical, full QWERTY keyboard, that is revealed when you push the phone from left to right (when holding it in the upright position in your hand.) It is a touch screen, and offers 3G and wi-fi connections. As well as many other bells and whistles. It came out less than a week ago I believe, and it is a pretty big craze with T-mobile.

The other eye catching phone is another touch screen interface, called the Behold from Samsung.

What you see is what you get here. It's sort of a brick style, full touch screen (only 3 physical buttons.) It's very small, probably less than half the size iPhone. And it's less than two weeks old I believe.

Well, the G1 was very tempting. I REALLY like the fact that it has wi-fi as well as 3G connection. Wi-fi is usually superior to a 3G, assuming you are in a building or area that has wifi. However, the G1 is just as bulky as the Sidekick. Although it has a lot of really cool features, it just defeats the purpose of my need for a smaller phone.

Btw, the reason I want a smaller phone, is because I work in a business area now (the service department of an Audi dealership) and I use my phone a LOT. The sidekick looked like a box of cigars in my slacks, and on it's belt holdster, it looked like a large brick hanging from my hip. It was tacky, and unprofessional.

Moving on. I chose the Samsung Behold. I really like it's size. It's very small, sleek, and stylish. I was a bit weary that it only had a 3G connection, and no wifi capability, but after hearing many reviews about 3G networks, I was convinced that not having wifi wasn't that big of a deal.

I paid a total of 414 dollars, for the phone, and a belt holdsters, and that was after a partial discount of 30 dollars, which required me to renew my contract for an additional two years. On top of that, the unlimited data plan for the phone is 35 a month. I was ready to make this commitment, assuming the phone was all it was cracked up to be. Moreover, there is a 14 day grace period after purchasing phones from t-mobile. So I could take it back if I didn't like it, up to 14 days.

Well, immediately when I got the phone, I wanted to try out the web browser. I was very excited to see how the 3G performed, and to check out the capabilities of the browser itself, since not all phone browsers are the same, even if they use the same network.

Ok, right off the bat, I noticed that the phone does not have real web browsing. Almost every website I tried to load, the phone automatically reverted to the websites mobile version (usually putting a 'm.' in front of the url. I found the browser settings menu, no option related to that. Kept searching for browser settings, nothing. Got online, found the same complaint on a few reviews. I then called t-mobile and basically found no help. The customer reps had not heard of this problem (which I found VERY hard to believe) and not even the technical support department could find a solution. One of the reps even told me that I needed to wait 24 hours for my "full service" to kick in

After no luck all night with t-mobile, I decied to wait until the next day, to go to the t-mobile store I bought the phone from during my lunch hour (that's today.) The regular employee, was very nice, but she didn't understand my concern. She had the phone herself, and had been trying it for several days. It didn't even occur to her that a phone of this alleged caliber should be able to actually browse the internet. I showed her how the phone either reverts you to a mobile version of the website, or chops the images up and puts the website into a single column (completely defeating the purpose of having a "real internet browser.") I couldn't even get one of those "hmmmmm" looks out of her, she didn't see a problem. So I (kindly) asked to ask to speak with someone else (who I knew was the store manager) about the problem.

I showed him the problem, and he agreed with me that this is "insane." He had one of the new G1's himself, and showed me how much more realistic the G1 browser is. Although he agreed and we shared a few other concerns with phone, I knew that my help was going to end there. It's the manufactures responsibility to own up to it's claims.

So, I called Samsung customer service, and explained them my problem. I was convinced that it is simply a firmware/software issue, because the phone is still very new. I asked them if this was the case, and if so, are they currently developing a firmware update. The gentlemen said they were not, but hopefully in the future they will be doing so. He even asked his supervisor which was the same thing. This didn't sound very convincing. I told him that I really, honestly do like this voice, and I don't want to return it, but I need some sort of assurance that this simple issue is going to be resolved. That didn't really get much out of him either

Sorry for being so long winded, it's a lot of info. What does everyone else think? I might try the G1 just for the heck of it. But currently, those are the only phones that provide true 3G and wifi web browsing, (or claim to) beside the Blackberries, which I do not like.

I've thought about getting an unlocked phone (one that t-mobile doesn't provide), but I've only heard of a few people having success with truly getting their phone unlocked, saying that only some services work correctly.

Am I the only one who thinks it is crazy when a brand new phone is released, with a lot of hype, and all these new technologies, but still can't browse the real internet? TWO sidekick models ago I was able to browse the REAL internet. Even though it was very slowly on my 2G connection, I didn't have to go to a mobile version of a website if I didn't want to.

Your thoughts please!!!

 

[gatto]

This can be a potentially useless suggestion but have you considered an iphone 3G? I own one and nothing comes close. You get great customer service. The most useful and effective web browser. Maps has saved me many times and works very well. It also is small and I personally think professional in the right context. I'm not sure if you are a huge fan of a physical keyboard but I must say only having 4 actual buttons makes things very nice. If you are set on staying with T-Mobile I'd get the G1 for the web browsing but I don't think it looks very professional or is nearly as simple and functional as the iphone. Good luck!

 

[oxcrew]

Wifi is still a bit larger and I must say if you have to do something like download a large application or update for you phone. If you like the sleek look it might be hard to overcome the asthetics of it however I think you might ultimately be happier having a physical keyboard and having the wifi might be a good reason for you to be pushed towards the G1 instead.

 

[neilxvx]

This can be a potentially useless suggestion but have you considered an iphone 3G? I own one and nothing comes close. You get great customer service. The most useful and effective web browser. Maps has saved me many times and works very well. It also is small and I personally think professional in the right context. I'm not sure if you are a huge fan of a physical keyboard but I must say only having 4 actual buttons makes things very nice. If you are set on staying with T-Mobile I'd get the G1 for the web browsing but I don't think it looks very professional or is nearly as simple and functional as the iphone. Good luck!

This has always been a big subject for me. One very cool feature about the Samsung is that if you want to enter text you have two options. Holding the phone with one hand will give you a numeric keypad, with T9 or not--your choice. Then, if you want a full qwerty keypad, you can turn the phone to the side, and instantly you have a full qwerty at your fingertips. I absolutely can not stand the iphones because they will only let you text with one hand. Maybe the newer versions fixed that? Could I be wrong?

 

[neilxvx]

Wifi is still a bit larger and I must say if you have to do something like download a large application or update for you phone. If you like the sleek look it might be hard to overcome the asthetics of it however I think you might ultimately be happier having a physical keyboard and having the wifi might be a good reason for you to be pushed towards the G1 instead.

I honestly know that I will not like the G1. Not only is it like a brick, but the bottom of it is angled inward, making it even more awkward and less sleek. I just don't want something that's big.

 

[stobes21]

The G1 was developed by google and has an open system that allows and encourages independent developers to work up applications for the phone. From what I understand it is not nearly as developed yet as the iPhone app store, but has the potential to be a lot more open and collaborative than the iPhone stuff. The samsung will almost undoubtedly remain closed and locked to whatever samsung decides to update, nothing more. So, given those two choices, I would definitely go with the G1.

However, there is an alternative. The Apple iPod touch has all of the useful applications as the iPhone without the actual phone part, and the annoying link to ATT. It handles web browsing via wifi quite well, and there are applications for almost everything else on the planet available for it. It does not have a 3G connection, so if you really want web access when away from hot spots it is not going to be enough. And it is remarkably thin and absolutely disappears in a pocket.

Thus, my alternative suggestion is to get a more basic level phone from T-Mobile and an iPod touch. If web access away from hotspots is important get one with that, but if you are satisfied with wifi connections then get a cheap (or free) small phone. (>$100). Then get an iPod touch (~$250 after tax). Now, this approach will require you to carry 2 devices instead of one, which is a pain. However, it gets you all of the functionality you want, a much smaller form factor, and should save you at least $100, if not more.

 

[gatto]

This has always been a big subject for me. One very cool feature about the Samsung is that if you want to enter text you have two options. Holding the phone with one hand will give you a numeric keypad, with T9 or not--your choice. Then, if you want a full qwerty keypad, you can turn the phone to the side, and instantly you have a full qwerty at your fingertips. I absolutely can not stand the iphones because they will only let you text with one hand. Maybe the newer versions fixed that? Could I be wrong?

You can text with two hands, let me take a few screen shots and put them up. I personally can type with two hands when it is like this

I usually just use one when I'm not in a rush

While using safari you can also type like this by tilting it to the side (sorry, I told photobucket to rotate this image but it doesn't seem to want to)

while texting this is your only option

As someone who use to have very long nails I can promise you this phone is so easy to adapt to. I went from screwing up almost every letter the first time it was in my hands to being able to type faster now then I can on any phone with a physical keyboard.

also those screenshots I took, all I needed to do is click on the home key and the hold key at the same time. Those pictures can now obviously be uploaded, emailed, manipulated, you can do whatever you want to them. Here is an example of the camera quality.

 

[neilxvx]

The G1 was developed by google and has an open system that allows and encourages independent developers to work up applications for the phone. From what I understand it is not nearly as developed yet as the iPhone app store, but has the potential to be a lot more open and collaborative than the iPhone stuff. The samsung will almost undoubtedly remain closed and locked to whatever samsung decides to update, nothing more. So, given those two choices, I would definitely go with the G1.

However, there is an alternative. The Apple iPod touch has all of the useful applications as the iPhone without the actual phone part, and the annoying link to ATT. It handles web browsing via wifi quite well, and there are applications for almost everything else on the planet available for it. It does not have a 3G connection, so if you really want web access when away from hot spots it is not going to be enough. And it is remarkably thin and absolutely disappears in a pocket.

Thus, my alternative suggestion is to get a more basic level phone from T-Mobile and an iPod touch. If web access away from hotspots is important get one with that, but if you are satisfied with wifi connections then get a cheap (or free) small phone. (>$100). Then get an iPod touch (~$250 after tax). Now, this approach will require you to carry 2 devices instead of one, which is a pain. However, it gets you all of the functionality you want, a much smaller form factor, and should save you at least $100, if not more.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Thank you very much. My girlfriend already has an Ipod touch, and maybe I could try it out with hers. thanks man!

You can text with two hands, let me take a few screen shots and put them up. I personally can type with two hands when it is like this

I usually just use one when I'm not in a rush

While using safari you can also type like this by tilting it to the side (sorry, I told photobucket to rotate this image but it doesn't seem to want to)

while texting this is your only option

As someone who use to have very long nails I can promise you this phone is so easy to adapt to. I went from screwing up almost every letter the first time it was in my hands to being able to type faster now then I can on any phone with a physical keyboard.

also those screenshots I took, all I needed to do is click on the home key and the hold key at the same time. Those pictures can now obviously be uploaded, emailed, manipulated, you can do whatever you want to them. Here is an example of the camera quality.

Well that's good that they fixed that. However, I have t-mobile, and despite the endless amount of people I know who want iphones so bad that they buy unlocked ones, I'm just not convinced that it would work right. Maybe it would work ok at first, but when software updates are needed, I'm willing to bet something would go wrong.

 

[gatto]

That's actually a pretty good idea. Thank you very much. My girlfriend already has an Ipod touch, and maybe I could try it out with hers. thanks man!




Well that's good that they fixed that. However, I have t-mobile, and despite the endless amount of people I know who want iphones so bad that they buy unlocked ones, I'm just not convinced that it would work right. Maybe it would work ok at first, but when software updates are needed, I'm willing to bet something would go wrong.

Why unlock? why not try AT&T? They have the best 3G network to accommodate the iphone, even if you unlocked an iphone 3G and put it on another network it wouldn't be the same.

If you're really set on T-Mobile then don't get a 3G iphone. I've seen the ipod touch in action, it isn't bad but no web-based apps work on an ipod touch which is a lot of them.

 

[neilxvx]

Why unlock? why not try AT&T? They have the best 3G network to accommodate the iphone, even if you unlocked an iphone 3G and put it on another network it wouldn't be the same.

If you're really set on T-Mobile then don't get a 3G iphone. I've seen the ipod touch in action, it isn't bad but no web-based apps work on an ipod touch which is a lot of them.

Getting out of t-mobile would require either about two years of waiting to get out of the contract, or a big cancellation fee. I think AT&T has a better phone selection than t-mobile, but I've had at&t back when they were cingular, didn't like the customer service at all, and t-mobile arguably has better rate plans.

 

[gatto]

Getting out of t-mobile would require either about two years of waiting to get out of the contract, or a big cancellation fee. I think AT&T has a better phone selection than t-mobile, but I've had at&t back when they were cingular, didn't like the customer service at all, and t-mobile arguably has better rate plans.

didn't you say you've been with them for 3 years?

 

[neilxvx]

didn't you say you've been with them for 3 years?

yep. But I had my first cell phone when I was 15, and I lived in Mississippi back then. Back in those days, Cingular was pretty much the only wireless service provider around my small town then. I also had to hang on to my cingular phone at the same time I had my t-mobile. Long story actually. I moved back to Missisippi about a year and a half ago. I moved in with my mom, who really lived in the middle of nowhere. I think Cingular had just recently switched to at&t. I was go NO, and I mean NO service in my moms town with phone. I called at&t and they looked at my zip code and said: "hmm, yeah it shows you don't have service in that area." I waited for them to say something maybe like, "so we'll go ahead and not charge you 300 dollars to cancel your service." But no, she just said we're sorry, and when I asked to speak to a manager/supervisor, they said the same thing. Awful... Not only was I going to have to pay the 300 dollars, but I was going to have to pay TWENTY dollars a month until the day my service was supposed to end. I ended up just changing my rate plan to being 20 bucks a month, and waiting it out, and switching to T-mobile... not having to pay the 300 dollars (or was it 200?) Either way, that's insane, and I'm a bit finnicky about going back to that service.

 

[gatto]

yep. But I had my first cell phone when I was 15, and I lived in Mississippi back then. Back in those days, Cingular was pretty much the only wireless service provider around my small town then. I also had to hang on to my cingular phone at the same time I had my t-mobile. Long story actually. I moved back to Missisippi about a year and a half ago. I moved in with my mom, who really lived in the middle of nowhere. I think Cingular had just recently switched to at&t. I was go NO, and I mean NO service in my moms town with phone. I called at&t and they looked at my zip code and said: "hmm, yeah it shows you don't have service in that area." I waited for them to say something maybe like, "so we'll go ahead and not charge you 300 dollars to cancel your service." But no, she just said we're sorry, and when I asked to speak to a manager/supervisor, they said the same thing. Awful... Not only was I going to have to pay the 300 dollars, but I was going to have to pay TWENTY dollars a month until the day my service was supposed to end. I ended up just changing my rate plan to being 20 bucks a month, and waiting it out, and switching to T-mobile... not having to pay the 300 dollars (or was it 200?) Either way, that's insane, and I'm a bit finnicky about going back to that service.

Ouch, I can see why you wouldn't want to go back. In that case I'd go with the G1 and an ipod touch.

 

[neilxvx]

Ouch, I can see why you wouldn't want to go back. In that case I'd go with the G1 and an ipod touch.

Yeah, it's a sticky situation. Having two hardware devices seems very impractical, but I refuse to get the G1, I just can't stand it's bulk, so I guess I'm screwed!

 

[OmegaEdge]

3G is better than wi-fi in my opinion. I have AT&T and I use a Tilt (a WM pocket pc phone). When I use wi-fi on my tilt the battery doesn't last very long. I keep my tilt set to the 3G band all the time and my battery lasts all day with heavy internet usage and email (I have exchange server).

Also T-Mobiles 3G netowrk is not as expansive as AT&T's, besides that they use a different frequency than the UMTS network that AT&T has so if you have a 3G T-mobile branded phone and you get it unlocked, you couldn't use it on AT&T unless it has a radio in it that supports the frequency that AT&T uses. Just a thought if you ever planned on jumping ship to another GSM carrier. Correct me if I am wrong, its been a while since I researched T-Mobiles 3G network specs.

I can browse full web pages on my device, either using Pocket IE, Opera, or Opera mini (java based application).

 

[perry]

It sounds like the phone just has a WAP browser. Try to get something like Opera Mini or Mobile and see if it doesn't help. The folks at www.howardforums.com may be able to get you pushed in the right direction.

AT&T has a new Samsung phone, the Eternity, that looks to be pretty similar to your phone. Same issue w/ mobile versions of pages loading. I was just reading about it and getting Opera is what people are having to do. Sounded like there were some issues with the keyboard in landscape mode in Java apps, like Opera.

The G1 will have a more full featured OS than the Samsung so you'll be able to do a lot more stuff with it.

It's not AT&T's fault you picked an area w/o coverage. If they let people out of contracts just for being in that zip code, then they'd end up with thousands of people "moving" there to get out of contracts.

One option you have is to pick about any quad-band GSM phone that's unlocked and put your SIM card in it. Would have to re-up the contract. And if you're willing to spend $400, you'll have a pretty big selection of phones.

 

[neilxvx]

It's not AT&T's fault you picked an area w/o coverage. If they let people out of contracts just for being in that zip code, then they'd end up with thousands of people "moving" there to get out of contracts.

True, but it's not my fault that I need a cellphone and Can't afford to pay 200 bucks plus 8 months of 20 dollars, then pay for an entirely different provider that does have service in my area. The reps could have been nicer or given me some kind of break, but they were cold and stiff as a rock.

 

[VR6ofpain]

That is odd. My old Samsung SGH-i607 ("Blackjack") has a Windows Mobile Internet Explorer. Not sure if it is a "real" browser, but it loads the mobile/WAP pages if they are available. When I go to Badge & Blade (I am guilty of surfing this forum on my mobile), it just loads the normal page. It isn't great, but you can navigate and post just fine. I have found the 3G network doesn't slow the loading down as much as my phones older (weaker) processor. My brother has a HTC Tilt, which also seems a tad slow when surfing the net. When he tethers it to his laptop though, it seems like a DSL speed connection. So the network is good, but these little processors are not yet up to snuff.

As much as I think Apple is lame (I do own a Nano), my other brother's iPhone is definitely decent. The lack of keyboard does suck (the touch screen is not the same, I get way too many keying errors using it), but the overall fit, finish, and functionality is nice. Surfing on the Safari browser is pretty good. The battery life on that phone is pretty horrid though. Surfing the net on 3G kills it just as fast as my Samsung. I figured in the last 2 years they could have come up with something more efficient.

I think that Google phone is pretty slick. I am surprised you didn't go with it. That phone is virtually the only thing T-moblie has going for them. I do not care for their plans and limited network. Out in California AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint have WAY BETTER coverage than T-mobile, no comparison at all.

 

[neilxvx]

So, I found how to get around a couple of the mobile websites.

For example, Myspace, (yes, I use myspace.) Typing in Myspace.com, the browser routes you to m.myspace.com

But I remember back in my high school days, when they blocked myspace.com using internet filters, going to login.myspace.com got you around that.

So, I tried login.myspace.com and voila!

Surprisingly, it loads fairly fast, and doesn't chop up the page and put into a single column. However, no matter what zoom size I choose, every picture on the page is distorted a little bit, and the text is fuzzy. It simply just does no reflect something I would want to pay 400 dollars for.

This really sucks, I REALLY like this phone. It's size, and touch screen, are all very nice, but this is pathetic, and I don't trust that Samsung is on the ball with this.

The new Blackberry that's available with at&t already is coming out through t-mobile in December or January, I think that might be what I'm looking for.

 

[OmegaEdge]

Get a windows mobile based device and load it with Opera (not free) or Opera Mini (free) and you will be able to browse any page just like you do on your computer, I love it.