SA Hellcat

[Bogeyman]

Move over P365, there's a new contender:

Springfield Armory Hellcat: World's Highest Capacity Micro-Compact 9mm

Springfield Armory has been dropping teasers on social media of a new model firearm set to debut today, and now the time is finally here to see the NEW Hellcat! The world's Highest Capacity Micro-Compact 9mm!

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[nortac]

Meh....the P365 now has 15 round mags available.

 

[jar_]

And a truly stupid name. What were they thinking?

 

[Ricksplace]

My daughter and her hubby are just finalizing the deal on the real thing. 2017, bright red, Supercharged Hemi producing 707hp on pump gas. 0-100k in 3.4 sec, quarter mile in the tens.

 

[shoelessjoe]

And a truly stupid name. What were they thinking?

lol ... I concur, & place the ‘Hellcat’ moniker right up there, or down as it were, with Cobray’s late-‘80s/90s ‘Street Sweeper’

 

[OkieStubble]

There is alot going with that HellCat for sure.

1. 11 round flush mag
2. Undercut trigger guard
3. flat trigger
4. RDS ready
5. no redundant grip safety
6. interesting looking half moon rear sight... Thing.

However, as much as I liked my Sig P365. I sold it, because the 4.3" of grip height did not allow a proper speed reload without the flush and extended magazines hitting the meaty portion of the bottom of my hand and preventing the magazines from falling free.

The Springfield HellCat's grip height, is only 4". .3 less than the Sig P365. So it is easy to presume, the HellCat will present the same issue in reloading.

I'll stick with the 10 round flush magazine of my Glock 43X which grip allows the magazines to free fall when ejected.

 

[Bogeyman]

There is alot going with that HellCat for sure.

1. 11 round flush mag
2. Undercut trigger guard
3. flat trigger
4. RDS ready
5. no redundant grip safety
6. interesting looking half moon rear sight... Thing.

However, as much as I liked my Sig P365. I sold it, because the 4.3" of grip height did not allow a proper speed reload without the flush and extended magazines hitting the meaty portion of the bottom of my hand and preventing the magazines from falling free.

The Springfield HellCat's grip height, is only 4". .3 less than the Sig P365. So it is easy to presume, the HellCat will present the same issue in reloading.

I'll stick with the 10 round flush magazine of my Glock 43X which grip allows the magazines to free fall when ejected.

I think speed reloading drills are mostly a waste of time for the average consumer as USPSA skills are not applicable for the most part, i.e., you won't be running and dodging behind cardboard blockers and concerned about muzzle safety. Dexterity goes quickly with the Real Deal and just being able to reload fluidly is a real challenge. If you were carrying a revolver then being able to reload quickly and proficiently must be learned. Speed strips are a must as speedloaders are not civilian friendly re portability. Sadly, few who carry a DA revolver learn how to reload well.

The biggest hurdle is not reloading nor capacity for that matter. It's knowing when to shoot and that is best honed by something few non-LEO's have experience with: dealing with thugs, riffraff and various other sordid Street rabble. They get close and act quick as a flash.

 

[Acmemfg]

My view on the reloading issue....
In the civilian version of the real world, a hostile encounter that involves gunplay will statistically be over with far fewer rounds being fired by the defensive party than most magazines even hold. Research the data if you like.
However, police are in another parallel dimension. The odds of even an everyday patrol officer getting into a high volume gunfight are significantly increased. Hence, police are trained (rightfully so) to react in myriad different fashions. If that training is successful, the officer will react the same in any given circumstance which requires his skills. So....
Reaction to a shooting situation should be the same and the tools at hand must easily facilitate said reaction. Using a firearm which compromises the way one was taught to shoot...not good. Good habits do not need to be altered because the firearm is, for lack of better terms, a poor fit for the individual.
I own a SIG P365; nice enough gun but I agree with @OkieStubble, the magazine drop can be problematic. It does not necessarily react in a similar way decades of training with other auto pistols have had me become accustomed to.
Surely this is no issue at all to the everyday shooter, CCW or not. But to police personnel or others who have another discipline firmly embedded in their shooting protocol...it makes a lot of sense to find a better fitting tool.

 

[OkieStubble]

I think speed reloading drills are mostly a waste of time for the average consumer as USPSA skills are not applicable for the most part, i.e., you won't be running and dodging behind cardboard blockers and concerned about muzzle safety. Dexterity goes quickly with the Real Deal and just being able to reload fluidly is a real challenge. If you were carrying a revolver then being able to reload quickly and proficiently must be learned. Speed strips are a must as speedloaders are not civilian friendly re portability. Sadly, few who carry a DA revolver learn how to reload well.

The biggest hurdle is not reloading nor capacity for that matter. It's knowing when to shoot and that is best honed by something few non-LEO's have experience with: dealing with thugs, riffraff and various other sordid Street rabble. They get close and act quick as a flash.

Excellent post. I would add when the flag does go up there is a difference in a typical self defense application and a gunfight.

In a gunfight, your heartbeat is pounding so loud in your ears, not only can you not hear the gunfire, but your also experiencing tunnel vision and hyperventilation because two opposing individuals are indeed actually trying to kill each other and survive one another all at the same time.

You might just find that reloading is a very real possibility because the bullets are not quite finding their mark when $hit, spit and *** all hit the fan at once.

During this reload and life and death struggle, the realization of also finding out that your physical minor gross movements will break down and we are only left with major gross movements.

I want and need the magazine to fall free if/when my thumb activates that magazine release. Anything else that increases time and not decreases it is considered to be a terminal flaw.

 

[OkieStubble]

My view on the reloading issue....
In the civilian version of the real world, a hostile encounter that involves gunplay will statistically be over with far fewer rounds being fired by the defensive party than most magazines even hold. Research the data if you like.
However, police are in another parallel dimension. The odds of even an everyday patrol officer getting into a high volume gunfight are significantly increased. Hence, police are trained (rightfully so) to react in myriad different fashions. If that training is successful, the officer will react the same in any given circumstance which requires his skills. So....
Reaction to a shooting situation should be the same and the tools at hand must easily facilitate said reaction. Using a firearm which compromises the way one was taught to shoot...not good. Good habits do not need to be altered because the firearm is, for lack of better terms, a poor fit for the individual.
I own a SIG P365; nice enough gun but I agree with @OkieStubble, the magazine drop can be problematic. It does not necessarily react in a similar way decades of training with other auto pistols have had me become accustomed to.
Surely this is no issue at all to the everyday shooter, CCW or not. But to police personnel or others who have another discipline firmly embedded in their shooting protocol...it makes a lot of sense to find a better fitting tool.

Great post @Acmemfg, your years of experience and wisdom commands respect sir.

 

[simon1]

Sadly, few who carry a DA revolver learn how to reload well.

Raises hand..."I know how. I know."

Excellent post by the way.

Excellent post. I would add when the flag does go up there is a difference in a typical self defense application and a gunfight.

In a gunfight, your heartbeat is pounding so loud in your ears, not only can you not hear the gunfire, but your also experiencing tunnel vision and hyperventilation because two opposing individuals are indeed actually trying to kill each other and survive one another all at the same time.

You might just find that reloading is a very real possibility because the bullets are not quite finding their mark when $hit, spit and *** all hit the fan at once.

During this reload and life and death struggle, the realization of also finding out that your physical minor gross movements will break down and we are only left with major gross movements.

I want and need the magazine to fall free if/when my thumb activates that magazine release. Anything else that increases time and not decreases it is considered to be a terminal flaw.

We called it "when the balloon goes up" instead of "when the flag goes up." Auditory exclusion, tunnel vision, and the related issues are very real. Not to mention the tendency of some people to dump all rounds in the weapon at once.

Reloads are very important. So are tactical reloads...speed strips for a revolver are great for that.

But back to the subject. I've never even seen a Springfield Hellcat, much less shot one. It's combat tupperware so I probably never will shoot one. I think my next purchase will be a vintage S&W Model 10.

 

[jar_]

It's important to realize that Elephants are not everywhere. Once you've seen the Elephant you will always be able to recognize the Elephant but they are still not everywhere,

Civilians, Law Enforcement and the Military all face different scenarios and the latter are far more likely to be in neighborhoods where the Elephant might be found.

That does not mean civilians should not always carry a towel and a bag of peanuts.

 

[nortac]

Never forget your towel! Particularly when hitchhiking the galaxy!

 

[martym]

If you never practice a reload and, God forbid, the day comes that the situation demands you reload to save your life and/ or the lives of your loved ones or an innocent bystander you won’t be able to do it.
That’s just the way it is. The truth. The whole truth. Nothing but the truth.
So if it doesn’t work for you in practice it won’t work for you in real life. Get rid of it.
Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect.
I agree wholeheartedly with @OkieStubble’s decision.
I agree with y’all mostly. I’m just not eloquent in expressing myself. But I am very passionate about this.

The Hellcat is not for me.
And that’s all I gotta say about that.

 

[OkieStubble]

It's important to realize that Elephants are not everywhere. Once you've seen the Elephant you will always be able to recognize the Elephant but they are still not everywhere,

Civilians, Law Enforcement and the Military all face different scenarios and the latter are far more likely to be in neighborhoods where the Elephant might be found.

That does not mean civilians should not always carry a towel and a bag of peanuts.

You have a great knack, in explaining things!

 

[Bogeyman]

This was just in the local news.

...Both pulled out guns and shot at each other dozens of times, ultimately killing each other in a shootout...

Security guard, patron who killed each other in shootout at South Side bar identified

UPDATE: The medical examiner's office identified the security guard killed in the shootout as 21-year-old Brandon Olguin. The other person killed was identified as 26-year-old Jose Covarrubious.

www.ksat.com

There is always an exception and this most certainly is one!!

 

[OkieStubble]

This was just in the local news.

Security guard, patron who killed each other in shootout at South Side bar identified

UPDATE: The medical examiner's office identified the security guard killed in the shootout as 21-year-old Brandon Olguin. The other person killed was identified as 26-year-old Jose Covarrubious.

www.ksat.com

There is always an exception and this most certainly is one!!

Report says "dozens of rounds". They probably were only a few yards away from each other out in the parking lot. I have seen this same type of incident played out were both opposing shooters kill each other. Both most likely, shot each other multiple times without hitting major organs. But instead just wounding and severing arteries.

My experience tells me, they probably both bled out looking at the ambulance parked across the street from the bar at the Circle K and wondering why it won't come help them; and not realizing that ambulance is waiting for the police to show up and clear the scene before they do anything.

Sad state of affairs.

 

[Climb14er]

I'd like to see the long term actual use reports of the Hellcat. On paper and on video, looks like a well designed pistol. We'll see, hope they're very positive!

 

[OkieStubble]

I'd like to see the long term actual use reports of the Hellcat. On paper and on video, looks like a well designed pistol. We'll see, hope they're very positive!

It really does look like it has a bunch of things going for it. I was pretty excited reading about it, until I saw the height of it's grip and all the air went out of me like a balloon.

 

[Bogeyman]

It really does look like it has a bunch of things going for it. I was pretty excited reading about it, until I saw the height of it's grip and all the air went out of me like a balloon.

But with too short of a grip you get people having problems inadvertently hitting the mag release during live fire. As well, many people are just going to order a longer extended mag anyway. I never understood the people who put a 33 rd. mag in say a Glock G26.