Rocnel Elite

[Calm_Shaver]

@LRod I too once upon a time had the 2019 Rocnel Aggressive Elite and had similar experiences to yours. It didn’t work out for me. The Nodachi worked for me in comparison, around the same time.

The main problem for me with the Elite was there was no blade feel at all, and felt like it wasn’t cutting any hair so I overshaved or/and applied too much pressure causing irritation and bleeding sometimes. It completely tore up my neck. Sometimes you need a little blade feel to know where you’re at.

2 years ago when I had this razor, hands down the best blade in it was Feather. Imo this razor was designed with the Feather in mind. Had great results with Feather but still had irritation on my neck region so sadly I had to let it go. My 2 cents. GL and hope it works out

 

[LRod]

OK, as to not pester on the thread, I'm gonna put this one last experience here with the Rocnel. I had a morning shave with it today. It was the same as the last one with OK results using the proper angle, pressure etc..
I've figured it out but the results are nowhere near my 3 Top Gun razors (Nodachi, X1 & Outlaw). It shaves pretty smooth with average resultant efficiency. 6th hour today at work and I could feel my stubble!
Bottom line as to the reason: Lack of blade exposure!
Interesting that @Calm_Shaver (as posted above) had similar results with the 2019 aggressive version. This 2022 from what I've read was modeled after the older aggressive version with some added improvements.
If I don't have that, I'll never have the efficiency I want on a 2 pass shave. Adding a 3rd or 4th pass can get me there but that also gets me irritated. So it's not worth it! (As I mentioned before, my whiskers are like steel!)
Not only do I not feel the blade, but I also don't like how that feels. I made a mistake in not asking you all about the blade feel before I bought this thing. And I know, I know, "Try a Kai!"
But I don't want a razor specific to one blade just to make it work. And I won't default to feather's either because they've always felt abrasive during a shave. All my other razors are mostly universal with my preferred blades. I'll give it a rest for now and then decide what to do. It's a beautiful razor but it's not totally working out right now.
Next time I post about the Elite will be to relay what I do with it long term.

For tonight's shave I decided to use my Outlaw which I hadn't used for a week.
Unbelievable shave!
LRod

 

[APBinNCA]

@LRod
The only thing still bouncing around my head is how this thing would feel ATG. You are a bit of a rarity in that you don't shave ATG, but I originally didn't either. Shaving ATG can really separate OK razors from exceptional razors. My Nodachi w/Masamune plate(even with Kai) is lacking no matter how many passes I make, until I do an ATG pass and the neutral exposure is irrelevant and the feel tells you so! I am not suggesting you change your technique, I am just throwing this out there because I have a feeling the Elite would make up for it's per pass inefficiency with an ATG pass.

I sympathise with not wanting to be tied to a blade that you don't really like, I have several razors that require a Kai. I just happen to love Kais. I made some posts recently trying to make Feathers work again and every time, they literal go into my skin like quick sand!

 

[Phoenixkh]

I'm glad the Outlaw is what it's advertised to be.... I've only seen FB posts with it, mostly, not from people I know.

Larry, I think, when we compare notes, "I prefer the "mild but efficient" razors... and you prefer the "moderate but efficient" razors"..and we have to factor that in. They overlap in the middle where we share great common experiences. As you know, there is a range for both categories... what's on the mild side of my range doesn't seem to work for you.... But it sure is great when we have those amazing, parallel shaves.

 

[LRod]

@LRod
The only thing still bouncing around my head is how this thing would feel ATG. You are a bit of a rarity in that you don't shave ATG, but I originally didn't either. Shaving ATG can really separate OK razors from exceptional razors. My Nodachi w/Masamune plate(even with Kai) is lacking no matter how many passes I make, until I do an ATG pass and the neutral exposure is irrelevant and the feel tells you so! I am not suggesting you change your technique, I am just throwing this out there because I have a feeling the Elite would make up for it's per pass inefficiency with an ATG pass.

I get that but since I'm getting near BBS results with the other 3, I wont jump into ATG territory just to make the Rocnel work. I've tried ATG many times and I end up with irritation. That's why I also limit myself to 2 passes WTG/XTG.
ATG is definitely not for everyone. And whether it's WTG/XTG or ATG, I don't like the feel of shaving with no blade feel.
The Rocnel won't offer that no matter what!
And about the Nodachi/Masamune combo: Have you tried the full Nodachi (top & bottom)?
It's supposed to be totally different. That's what I use and I get major efficiency with my 2 passes.

 

[LRod]

I'm glad the Outlaw is what it's advertised to be.... I've only seen FB posts with it, mostly, not from people I know.

Larry, I think, when we compare notes, "I prefer the "mild but efficient" razors... and you prefer the "moderate but efficient" razors"..and we have to factor that in. They overlap in the middle where we share great common experiences. As you know, there is a range for both categories... what's on the mild side of my range doesn't seem to work for you.... But it sure is great when we have those amazing, parallel shaves.

Perfectly said Kim! And I dare say that sometimes I also swing to the "aggressive & efficient" category. I really like to feel the blade and the Nodachi & Outlaw offer that (in DE's). I'm not gonna throw the X1 or Claymore in the same camp because AC format razors feel and shave totally different. But we totally agree on the X1, which we both have. The Claymore is still on standby as I still haven't given it the time it deserves. Matter of fact, tomorrow's shave will be with the Claymore using a Kai blade. I've only used it with the Schick blades (which you didn't like). So maybe with the Kai's I get a good result. It's possible that it might also not be the greatest for me with the Schick's. As for the Blutt which you love, I probably wouldn't like since I've been reading that it lacks blade feel. So I'll skip that one since I already know it's characteristics up front. I'm (for now) going to stick to my Tatara, Outlaw and X1.
The 3 offer me the feel, efficiency and shaving angle that I love. I'm very happy with them!
Next as I said before would be the Smart Helix Apollo which I'm hopeful will get built for me someday!

Not to derail but for your reading pleasure Kim. This is what convinced me on the Outlaw here on B&B:

MY REVIEW: Executive Shaving Outlaw Razor

The Executive Shaving Outlaw razor has reached me. There was a long delay due to logistics issues caused by the lockdown. There is no packaging for the razor. It's shipped in a cardboard box and the razor is inside the included travel case. I love this approach! It minimises packaging waste and...

www.badgerandblade.com

Couple of first shaves with Alpha Outlaw

I bought this razor from a member of a shave forum. Fit and finish is a first class. I have a couple of high end razors and this razor is on the same level and even a little better. Now for the shave. I have a very coarse,grey facial hair that grows in different directions. Generally I prefer an...

www.badgerandblade.com

How would you comment on that alpha outlaw safety razor

https://www.alphashaving.com/product/alpha-outlaw-double-edged-safety-razor/

www.badgerandblade.com

Alpha/Executive Shaving Outlaw or Tatara Nodachi?

Any thoughts on this? I’d be the regular Outlaw (not the mild version) and probably the Tatara custom (Masamune base plate, Nordachi head and Masamune handle). I’m torn between these two and would appreciate how you guys compare these razors. Also, any of you have a dark Tatara? That’s what I...

www.badgerandblade.com

Not trying to enable but remember that they come in a "milder" version as well

 

[APBinNCA]

And about the Nodachi/Masamune combo: Have you tried the full Nodachi (top & bottom)?
It's supposed to be totally different. That's what I use and I get major efficiency with my 2 passes.

I don't doubt that it is, the Nodachi w/Masamune OC plate has the same blade feel for me as my Blackbird SB with 1/3 blade exposure! I also need positive blade exposure so no Masamune cap for me, I started in the middle plate wise and have no need for the Nodachi shaving ATG. Once again, I get where you are coming from more than you probably think I do and trying to get the best result possible without shaving ATG is a different, but similarly rigorous challenge as finding a razor that works ATG without tearing up your face! When I need to do what you do normally, like a couple days ago, I always reach for a thick bladed razor(AC/injector/straight). TBH, I have been eyeballing a couple Sailors for sale, including a '22 MC, but as beautiful as they are, I know these aren't the razors for me(like the Yates). Your and other peoples posts do help keep me back from the edge!

 

[Rosseforp]

I really like to feel the blade and the Nodachi & Outlaw offer that (in DE's).

You want blade feel, reach no further than the Dollar Store Assured.

~doug~

 

[Mr. Shavington]

You want blade feel, reach no further than the Dollar Store Assured.
View attachment 1556941

~doug~

Wow. Yeah, you’d feel the blade with that.

 

[Phoenixkh]

Perfectly said Kim! And I dare say that sometimes I also swing to the "aggressive & efficient" category. I really like to feel the blade and the Nodachi & Outlaw offer that (in DE's). I'm not gonna throw the X1 or Claymore in the same camp because AC format razors feel and shave totally different. But we totally agree on the X1, which we both have. The Claymore is still on standby as I still haven't given it the time it deserves. Matter of fact, tomorrow's shave will be with the Claymore using a Kai blade. I've only used it with the Schick blades (which you didn't like). So maybe with the Kai's I get a good result. It's possible that it might also not be the greatest for me with the Schick's. As for the Blutt which you love, I probably wouldn't like since I've been reading that it lacks blade feel. So I'll skip that one since I already know it's characteristics up front. I'm (for now) going to stick to my Tatara, Outlaw and X1.
The 3 offer me the feel, efficiency and shaving angle that I love. I'm very happy with them!
Next as I said before would be the Smart Helix Apollo which I'm hopeful will get built for me someday!

Not to derail but for your reading pleasure Kim. This is what convinced me on the Outlaw here on B&B:

MY REVIEW: Executive Shaving Outlaw Razor

The Executive Shaving Outlaw razor has reached me. There was a long delay due to logistics issues caused by the lockdown. There is no packaging for the razor. It's shipped in a cardboard box and the razor is inside the included travel case. I love this approach! It minimises packaging waste and...

www.badgerandblade.com

Couple of first shaves with Alpha Outlaw

I bought this razor from a member of a shave forum. Fit and finish is a first class. I have a couple of high end razors and this razor is on the same level and even a little better. Now for the shave. I have a very coarse,grey facial hair that grows in different directions. Generally I prefer an...

www.badgerandblade.com

How would you comment on that alpha outlaw safety razor

https://www.alphashaving.com/product/alpha-outlaw-double-edged-safety-razor/

www.badgerandblade.com

Alpha/Executive Shaving Outlaw or Tatara Nodachi?

Any thoughts on this? I’d be the regular Outlaw (not the mild version) and probably the Tatara custom (Masamune base plate, Nordachi head and Masamune handle). I’m torn between these two and would appreciate how you guys compare these razors. Also, any of you have a dark Tatara? That’s what I...

www.badgerandblade.com

Not trying to enable but remember that they come in a "milder" version as well

I took a close look at the Outlaw last night. I considered buying just the razor head but I noticed something. I like the look of heads the completely cover the blade tabs but if they are just rectangular, the end of the blade ends up being quite a distance from the head itself, if I'm communicating that clearly. I'll see if I can do a better job explaining. If you look at the Blutt, the Elite and the RR Lupo from the top, you'll see the heads are not simple rectangles. They each have a way to get the blade edge closer to the end of the top cap. I have a couple of odd whiskers that grow right next to the bottom side, right and left, of my nose and they are hard to shave. It's much easier with a razor head that gets the blade end much closer to the sides of the top cap. The AC razors get this right too.

The Outlaw, along with the Overlander, don't address this concern of mine... for my odd whisker placement. I think the Athena is more of a rectangular head as well but it's hard to be sure from the photos. I think it will show up today and we'll see. The alternative is to use a second razor to complete this task... not really a big deal. The Claymore Evo works wonders around my nose.

My current plan is to try the RR Lupo with both the 72SB and the 95OC and see how that shaves before I'd consider the Outlaw. I did read all the threads you linked. In the very beginning of my journey, I had chosen the Outlaw as my first purchase but Brian Mulreany, the owner of ESC at the time (now retired), suggested I try the Claymore Evolution and you know my history with that fine razor.

Now for another conundrum: I don't think I know what "blade feel" is for others because I think I have blade feel with the Elite. By that I mean, I know I can hear the blade cutting... but I think I feel it as well. I can feel the blade even with mild razors... or do I just think I can? Even with my Gillette British Flat Bottom Techs, as always, I lift the handle until I "feel" the blade engage. I'm not sure what people mean when they say... there is zero blade feel. @Mr. Shavington and I have discussed this. When we were discussing the Blutt, he said: "You are already used to blade feel with the Claymore Evo and the Blutt has a bit more of that (I'm paraphrasing) and he was exactly right. Again, my face and experience. So at the moment, I consider the Blutt, Elite and X1 to all have a bit more "blade feel" than my Claymore Evo. As you know, I have months of shaving with the Claymore Evo so I naturally compare all my other razors and how they shave to it.

If you really need "blade feel", I guess you could always use a barber razor or a straight razor... those would be the ultimate blade feel, I suppose. I have both but don't feel confident enough to even try one. I'll stick with AC SE and DE razors, at least, for now. Both @Mr. Shavington and @APBinNCA have both encouraged me to try my Kai Woody... and it is a lovely piece of equipment. I might get around to it one of these days, who knows?

 

[APBinNCA]

@Phoenixkh
Not to poke you again about using the straight, honest. Another component of blade feel is relative to the blade angle from your face. The closer the blade is to being flat on your face, the lower the blade feel and the less harsh that it feels. It's a lot easier to visualise with a barber razor, but the same thing is going on under the top cap of every single safety razor. An example from above is how much more blade feel my Tatara has relative to it's actual blade exposure whereas the angle of the blade from my face on the Blackbird is lower and I perceive the blade less relative to it's exposure. So you are onto something here that confounds describing blade feel; the more you feel the actual edge(vs the side), the more your brain perceives it as more blade feel. This is also the trick with the Henson razors and your Claymore Evo, the fixed angle is just low enough to reduce blade feel without affecting efficiency the way an injector razor does. I should mention that with safety razors, you have two angles that interplay, but are not the same: the angle the blade is held at inside the top cap and the angle that the razor design places the blade from your face. The angle I am talking about above is more about the former. The latter can be adjusted by the user and obviously has an affect, but if two razors are used the same way then the above is valid.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

I took a close look at the Outlaw last night. I considered buying just the razor head but I noticed something. I like the look of heads the completely cover the blade tabs but if they are just rectangular, the end of the blade ends up being quite a distance from the head itself, if I'm communicating that clearly. I'll see if I can do a better job explaining. If you look at the Blutt, the Elite and the RR Lupo from the top, you'll see the heads are not simple rectangles. They each have a way to get the blade edge closer to the end of the top cap. I have a couple of odd whiskers that grow right next to the bottom side, right and left, of my nose and they are hard to shave. It's much easier with a razor head that gets the blade end much closer to the sides of the top cap. The AC razors get this right too.

The Outlaw, along with the Overlander, don't address this concern of mine... for my odd whisker placement. I think the Athena is more of a rectangular head as well but it's hard to be sure from the photos. I think it will show up today and we'll see. The alternative is to use a second razor to complete this task... not really a big deal. The Claymore Evo works wonders around my nose.

My current plan is to try the RR Lupo with both the 72SB and the 95OC and see how that shaves before I'd consider the Outlaw. I did read all the threads you linked. In the very beginning of my journey, I had chosen the Outlaw as my first purchase but Brian Mulreany, the owner of ESC at the time (now retired), suggested I try the Claymore Evolution and you know my history with that fine razor.

Now for another conundrum: I don't think I know what "blade feel" is for others because I think I have blade feel with the Elite. By that I mean, I know I can hear the blade cutting... but I think I feel it as well. I can feel the blade even with mild razors... or do I just think I can? Even with my Gillette British Flat Bottom Techs, as always, I lift the handle until I "feel" the blade engage. I'm not sure what people mean when they say... there is zero blade feel. @Mr. Shavington and I have discussed this. When we were discussing the Blutt, he said: "You are already used to blade feel with the Claymore Evo and the Blutt has a bit more of that (I'm paraphrasing) and he was exactly right. Again, my face and experience. So at the moment, I consider the Blutt, Elite and X1 to all have a bit more "blade feel" than my Claymore Evo. As you know, I have months of shaving with the Claymore Evo so I naturally compare all my other razors and how they shave to it.

If you really need "blade feel", I guess you could always use a barber razor or a straight razor... those would be the ultimate blade feel, I suppose. I have both but don't feel confident enough to even try one. I'll stick with AC SE and DE razors, at least, for now. Both @Mr. Shavington and @APBinNCA have both encouraged me to try my Kai Woody... and it is a lovely piece of equipment. I might get around to it one of these days, who knows?

I can distinctly feel the blade when I use my Elite - it definitely isn’t a numb or super-mild razor for me. It has positive blade exposure so of course the blade edge is in direct contact with my skin. I wouldn’t say the Elite has a narrow effective angle compared to other razors - I find it very easy to shave with, and to get an efficient shave (and not only with a Kai blade). Actually I find the Elite more efficient with-the-grain than most of the other razors we’ve been discussing as very good mild-but-efficient razors. I was surprised how close the Elite shaves on the first pass, for me. My shaves with the Elite last as long as any other razor - and I frequently use some highly efficient ones. That’s my experience with the razor.

Anyway, we needn’t over-analyze it. We all have different hair and skin, and we all have our own techniques. There are also different preferences, expectations, and benchmarks than will affect the experience, and all things are relative. What works a certain way for me isn’t necessarily going to be the same for someone else.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

@Phoenixkh
Not to poke you again about using the straight, honest. Another component of blade feel is relative to the blade angle from your face. The closer the blade is to being flat on your face, the lower the blade feel and the less harsh that it feels. It's a lot easier to visualise with a barber razor, but the same thing is going on under the top cap of every single safety razor. An example from above is how much more blade feel my Tatara has relative to it's actual blade exposure whereas the angle of the blade from my face on the Blackbird is lower and I perceive the blade less relative to it's exposure. So you are onto something here that confounds describing blade feel; the more you feel the actual edge(vs the side), the more your brain perceives it as more blade feel. This is also the trick with the Henson razors and your Claymore Evo, the fixed angle is just low enough to reduce blade feel without affecting efficiency the way an injector razor does. I should mention that with safety razors, you have two angles that interplay, but are not the same: the angle the blade is held at inside the top cap and the angle that the razor design places the blade from your face. The angle I am talking about above is more about the former. The latter can be adjusted by the user and obviously has an affect, but if two razors are used the same way then the above is valid.

Terrific insight and explanation. This would explain why I feel the Tatara Nodachi as uncomfortable blade feel whereas the Wolfman WR2 1.55 (which surely presents a great deal more blade) has quite comfortable, smooth blade feel. There’s no doubt the WR2 1.55 has a ton of blade feel and is a great deal more effective at removing hair, but even using a very steep angle it feels smooth and comfortable to my skin.

Maybe I need to ride the cap on my Nodachi, but that wouldn’t necessarily help with the efficiency I felt it lacks for me.

Not that I’ve studied the angles and curvatures of either razor - I just describe what I experience.

 

[LRod]

I took a close look at the Outlaw last night. I considered buying just the razor head but I noticed something. I like the look of heads the completely cover the blade tabs but if they are just rectangular, the end of the blade ends up being quite a distance from the head itself, if I'm communicating that clearly. I'll see if I can do a better job explaining. If you look at the Blutt, the Elite and the RR Lupo from the top, you'll see the heads are not simple rectangles. They each have a way to get the blade edge closer to the end of the top cap. I have a couple of odd whiskers that grow right next to the bottom side, right and left, of my nose and they are hard to shave. It's much easier with a razor head that gets the blade end much closer to the sides of the top cap. The AC razors get this right too.

The Outlaw, along with the Overlander, don't address this concern of mine... for my odd whisker placement. I think the Athena is more of a rectangular head as well but it's hard to be sure from the photos. I think it will show up today and we'll see. The alternative is to use a second razor to complete this task... not really a big deal. The Claymore Evo works wonders around my nose.

My current plan is to try the RR Lupo with both the 72SB and the 95OC and see how that shaves before I'd consider the Outlaw. I did read all the threads you linked. In the very beginning of my journey, I had chosen the Outlaw as my first purchase but Brian Mulreany, the owner of ESC at the time (now retired), suggested I try the Claymore Evolution and you know my history with that fine razor.

Now for another conundrum: I don't think I know what "blade feel" is for others because I think I have blade feel with the Elite. By that I mean, I know I can hear the blade cutting... but I think I feel it as well. I can feel the blade even with mild razors... or do I just think I can? Even with my Gillette British Flat Bottom Techs, as always, I lift the handle until I "feel" the blade engage. I'm not sure what people mean when they say... there is zero blade feel. @Mr. Shavington and I have discussed this. When we were discussing the Blutt, he said: "You are already used to blade feel with the Claymore Evo and the Blutt has a bit more of that (I'm paraphrasing) and he was exactly right. Again, my face and experience. So at the moment, I consider the Blutt, Elite and X1 to all have a bit more "blade feel" than my Claymore Evo. As you know, I have months of shaving with the Claymore Evo so I naturally compare all my other razors and how they shave to it.

If you really need "blade feel", I guess you could always use a barber razor or a straight razor... those would be the ultimate blade feel, I suppose. I have both but don't feel confident enough to even try one. I'll stick with AC SE and DE razors, at least, for now. Both @Mr. Shavington and @APBinNCA have both encouraged me to try my Kai Woody... and it is a lovely piece of equipment. I might get around to it one of these days, who knows?

I know what you mean about the blade edges on the outlaw. The blade edges don't line up with the edges of the head! My ATT Windsor is also like that. Doesn't bother me as I adjust by simply shaving closer to the edge of what i need to cut (I'm my case, the sides of my goatee). But I see where it can be an issue for some. As for blade feel: You have a Lupo! The Lupo has decent blade feel since it's got a nice exposure. That one should be a guage for comparison vs. your other razors that lack blade feel (like the Elite). Shave with both side by side and that should make you realize what blade feel actually is. It's not just the noise, it's feeling the blade pass on your skin. The elite is one that's noisy but the blade exposure definitely isn't the cause of the noise. My analysis of the Elite led me to notice that it's actually blade chatter causing the sound. It doesn't seem to clamp the blade very tight. Matter of fact, I noticed it skipping a few times on certain strokes while I was shaving. That indicates to me that the blade is pretty loose.
Lack of blade exposure + loose blade = lack of efficiency for my steel like whiskers!

 

[Phoenixkh]

Good insights from you both. I would say, I have the same experience with the Elite that @Mr. Shavington does. It was so effective on my first WTG pass, I was pleasantly surprised. But @LRod didn't have that experience, didn't have what he defines as blade feel.

That brings us back to what @Mr. Shavington said and I quote:

"Anyway, we needn’t over-analyze it. We all have different hair and skin, and we all have our own techniques. There are also different preferences, expectations, and benchmarks than will affect the experience, and all things are relative. What works a certain way for me isn’t necessarily going to be the same for someone else."

I have been learning to find people who experience shaving in the same way I do.. Who have the same likes and dislikes. If I mirror what they have purchased and enjoy, I find those selections usually work for me. That's why I continue to be surprised by my own failings with the Overlander. It stands out as the only thing I haven't enjoyed right off the bat.

OK.. there is one soap I bought, against my better judgment, that others loved but that my skin just couldn't handle. But the brushes and razors have all been outstanding so far. I do have a few inexpensive razors I purchased as "just to see" experiments, but I haven't gotten around to them yet. You know.. the R41 that people seem to love or hate.

My biggest obstacle at the moment is: I love some of my new razors so much, it's hard to motivate myself to try the others in the queue. But I got my Athena today.... I won't have to muster up the desire to try it.

As others have said.. The Athena is even more impressive in person. It exceeds the beauty in any of the photos posted here, regardless of the talents of the photographer. From outside of the case, how the razor is presented within the case.... the Athena itself..... what a work of art. I hope it shaves half as good as it looks. If it does.... all is well. If it doesn't, I'm going to keep it anyway. <eg> I'll find a place to display it in our home... like I do some of my most beautiful wood planes. I do hope it doesn't come to that. I'll try it with a "normal" DE blade before I give it the ol' Kai treatment. I do have just under 50 Kai blades, so I won't mind if a couple of my razors need that little extra boost the Kai provides.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I know what you mean about the blade edges on the outlaw. The blade edges don't line up with the edges of the head! My ATT Windsor is also like that. Doesn't bother me as I adjust by simply shaving closer to the edge of what i need to cut (I'm my case, the sides of my goatee). But I see where it can be an issue for some. As for blade feel: You have a Lupo! The Lupo has decent blade feel since it's got a nice exposure. That one should be a guage for comparison vs. your other razors that lack blade feel (like the Elite). Shave with both side by side and that should make you realize what blade feel actually is. It's not just the noise, it's feeling the blade pass on your skin. The elite is one that's noisy but the blade exposure definitely isn't the cause of the noise. My analysis of the Elite led me to notice that it's actually blade chatter causing the sound. It doesn't seem to clamp the blade very tight. Matter of fact, I noticed it skipping a few times on certain strokes while I was shaving. That indicates to me that the blade is pretty loose.
Lack of blade exposure + loose blade = lack of efficiency for my steel like whiskers!

I thought I had old man, grey, copper-like whiskers, but based on what you and David @never-stop-learning post, mine must be less wiry than I thought. I experience the Elite completely differently than you do... but after I try the Athena a few times, the RR Lupo is next in the queue. I don't know if I should try it with the 72SB first or just go for the gusto with the 95OC. At the moment, I think I'll be adventurous and try the latter.

 

[LRod]

Good insights from you both. I would say, I have the same experience with the Elite that @Mr. Shavington does. It was so effective on my first WTG pass, I was pleasantly surprised. But @LRod didn't have that experience, didn't have what he defines as blade feel.

That brings us back to what @Mr. Shavington said and I quote:

"Anyway, we needn’t over-analyze it. We all have different hair and skin, and we all have our own techniques. There are also different preferences, expectations, and benchmarks than will affect the experience, and all things are relative. What works a certain way for me isn’t necessarily going to be the same for someone else."

I have been learning to find people who experience shaving in the same way I do.. Who have the same likes and dislikes. If I mirror what they have purchased and enjoy, I find those selections usually work for me. That's why I continue to be surprised by my own failings with the Overlander. It stands out as the only thing I haven't enjoyed right off the bat.

OK.. there is one soap I bought, against my better judgment, that others loved but that my skin just couldn't handle. But the brushes and razors have all been outstanding so far. I do have a few inexpensive razors I purchased as "just to see" experiments, but I haven't gotten around to them yet. You know.. the R41 that people seem to love or hate.

My biggest obstacle at the moment is: I love some of my new razors so much, it's hard to motivate myself to try the others in the queue. But I got my Athena today.... I won't have to muster up the desire to try it.

As others have said.. The Athena is even more impressive in person. It exceeds the beauty in any of the photos posted here, regardless of the talents of the photographer. From outside of the case, how the razor is presented within the case.... the Athena itself..... what a work of art. I hope it shaves half as good as it looks. If it does.... all is well. If it doesn't, I'm going to keep it anyway. <eg> I'll find a place to display it in our home... like I do some of my most beautiful wood planes. I do hope it doesn't come to that. I'll try it with a "normal" DE blade before I give it the ol' Kai treatment. I do have just under 50 Kai blades, so I won't mind if a couple of my razors need that little extra boost the Kai provides.

Looking forward to your Athena review. I will hide my wallet (just in case) after the read

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Good insights from you both. I would say, I have the same experience with the Elite that @Mr. Shavington does. It was so effective on my first WTG pass, I was pleasantly surprised. But @LRod didn't have that experience, didn't have what he defines as blade feel.

That brings us back to what @Mr. Shavington said and I quote:

"Anyway, we needn’t over-analyze it. We all have different hair and skin, and we all have our own techniques. There are also different preferences, expectations, and benchmarks than will affect the experience, and all things are relative. What works a certain way for me isn’t necessarily going to be the same for someone else."

I have been learning to find people who experience shaving in the same way I do.. Who have the same likes and dislikes. If I mirror what they have purchased and enjoy, I find those selections usually work for me. That's why I continue to be surprised by my own failings with the Overlander. It stands out as the only thing I haven't enjoyed right off the bat.

OK.. there is one soap I bought, against my better judgment, that others loved but that my skin just couldn't handle. But the brushes and razors have all been outstanding so far. I do have a few inexpensive razors I purchased as "just to see" experiments, but I haven't gotten around to them yet. You know.. the R41 that people seem to love or hate.

My biggest obstacle at the moment is: I love some of my new razors so much, it's hard to motivate myself to try the others in the queue. But I got my Athena today.... I won't have to muster up the desire to try it.

As others have said.. The Athena is even more impressive in person. It exceeds the beauty in any of the photos posted here, regardless of the talents of the photographer. From outside of the case, how the razor is presented within the case.... the Athena itself..... what a work of art. I hope it shaves half as good as it looks. If it does.... all is well. If it doesn't, I'm going to keep it anyway. <eg> I'll find a place to display it in our home... like I do some of my most beautiful wood planes. I do hope it doesn't come to that. I'll try it with a "normal" DE blade before I give it the ol' Kai treatment. I do have just under 50 Kai blades, so I won't mind if a couple of my razors need that little extra boost the Kai provides.

I’ll be very interested in your thoughts about the Athena. Congrats on getting one. It’s different and feels different to other razors, I think, and we are all learning about it as we go.

According the the letter accompanying my Ares v2 it also has zero blade exposure, same as the Athena, and just 0.30mm blade gap, yet it is reported to be very efficient. How is it possible? Surely even the shave wisdom of @APBinNCA would struggle with that?

 

[Phoenixkh]

I’ll be very interested in your thoughts about the Athena. Congrats on getting one. It’s different and feels different to other razors, I think, and we are all learning about it as we go.

According the the letter accompanying my Ares v2 it also has zero blade exposure, same as the Athena, and just 0.30mm blade gap, yet it is reported to be very efficient. How is it possible? Surely even the shave wisdom of @APBinNCA would struggle with that?

Several people have passed on both the Athena and the Ares for just that reason. I've come to the conclusion, as you have, the razor designers know more than I do. I'm not sure it's possible to know how a razor will shave based on its dimensions alone. I have quite a few razors at this point that work for me and none of them are designed exactly the same way.

Tomorrow is definitely Athena Day.... when I got the package, I opened it and handed the case to my wife "unopened". I let her be the first to see the Athena's glory at our house. She loved it.... held it in her hands for a few minutes before passing it back to me.

 

[APBinNCA]

According the the letter accompanying my Ares v2 it also has zero blade exposure, same as the Athena, and just 0.30mm blade gap, yet it is reported to be very efficient. How is it possible? Surely even the shave wisdom of @APBinNCA would struggle with that?

You have a lot more real world experience than I do, I just play around with rulers and angle finders on my desk. As long as the correct angle is obvious, the small blade gap shouldn't be a downside. Further, my Nodachi with Masamune SB plate has zero blade exposure, but ATG there is definitely blade feel and reasonable effectiveness. Plus the Ares is an OC I believe, which throws another spanner in the works. I had the chance to grab one, but the beautiful handle is way too long for me and I wouldn't buy it knowing that I have to replace the handle. Looking forward to your review!