Rockwell Model T is in!!

Discussion in 'Shopping and Deals' started by Batman, Jul 28, 2018.

    Crowd funding = "We've got a terrific design. We just need funding to bring our excellent prototype to market."

    Rockwell Model T = "Give us your money for an all stainless razor. Yeah, that's the ticket. All stainless. Coming in 2017."


    "Sorry we didn't have a terrific design; we hadn't really thought about the problems, and it turns out we need to work with cheaper materials. But thanks for your money while we fantasized about a design that didn't work out. Hope you like our consolation prize. Which you may never get. We're sorry about that too."

    "But we've got your money, and you won't get what you expected, but having your money all this time has been great. Thanks very much."

    Oh wait, after over a year of waiting, while Rockwell has held my money, I could get a refund. They keep the financial float of everyone who paid in. Sweet.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2018
  1. That is a very disappointing story, to say the least. I received my own Model T this week, so I'm pretty sure I got the same 2-piece T-bar. It seems crazy to me that they would be shipping product knowing that this part needs to be changed out for the finished design. I'm guessing that because of the interminable delays in production, Rockwell finally succumbed to the (self inflicted) pressure to deliver product. You would think they would have learned from the meltdown over the defective razors they delivered in the original 6S campaign (all of which had to be replaced). If all of the Model T product Rockwell is currently shipping is of the 2-piece T-bar design, they may have a similar problem on their hands.
    You can bet I'll be keeping a close eye on my Model T.
  2. Bonky

    Bonky Contributor

    This is the problem with crowd-funding and why I will never participate in one.

    Investors are entirely at the mercy of the manufacturer with little to no recourse if the project falls through.

    If a product is worth my money, I can wait until it is in retail production.
  3. @Bricksville I feel your pain, but, that was an entertaining post. After 40+ years in the car biz I'm very sensitive to "Bait and Switch" and this is a classic case. All I can say is I'm happy I resisted the reserve by April 30 because we're going to double the price "urgency" announcement. The guy running this company sounds like a used car mechanic, they make used car salesmen look like angels. If I want one I'll wait for an ebay listing so I can what they're really worth.
  4. Has anyone cancelled their order? Did Rockwell refund promptly?
  5. I cancelled my order 6 months ago.
    The refund was within an hour.
  6. I canceled about 3 months ago ... took several days and many emails.
  7. Yes, refund was applied within the hour.
  8. emwolf

    emwolf Contributor

    I realize there is a risk in crowd sourcing as opposed to buying retail. The product may never come to market. But, I knew that the initial "ultra early bird" dollar figure would be far below the final price and I felt certain that something would come to market. Their 3 piece design is very good, so I supposed they wouldn't be anxious to trash their brand with garbage. All in all, I'm happy to have "bought in" at 40% of the current price for a product I've had to wait nearly 3 years to receive.
  9. I visited their web site to check on the Model T. They have taken all direct links off of the site and you can only get info by doing a product search. People might want to get a refund while you can.
  10. It is there - available for a pre-order.
  11. Hmm, I don't recall Rockwell every stating the Model T was going to be Stainless. Originally, it was to be all brass (other than certain stainless parts inside, like the spring), however, they found they couldn't obtain the tolerances necessary on some of the parts ans witched them to Zamac. Still disheartening if you ordered hoping for an all brass razor, in the spirit of a vintage Fat-Boy or Slim. - I almost pre-ordered in 2016, and then last year, when they announced certain parts would not be Zamac (silo door and I believe the tray), I was sort of glad I hadn't. Now they're a $200 razor, much higher than the original pricing or kick-starter amount.

    I love my 6s, but a T isn't in my future, sorry Rockwell, an all stainless Timeless got the nod.
  12. I stand corrected.
  13. I sympathize with you and entirely understand your frustration, but for me, this is the bottom line. I couldn't help noticing that with the 6S project, Rockwell released an original version, and then some time later a version 2.0, presumably to correct the flaws in the original version. Rockwell no doubt tried mightily to prevent something like that happening again with the model T, with the result of a lengthy delay in releasing anything at all. This is why I avoid crowd-funding projects. I wait a couple of years until a product has a proven track record. If I end up paying more, so be it.
  14. I just hope this project don't get them out of business. They know how to make good razors, but this project seems endless.
  15. emwolf

    emwolf Contributor

    You are correct, it wasn't to be stainless when I signed up in May of 2016. They did float the idea of all-stainless version of it at some point.
  16. I too think this is correct. In my post above, I incorrectly referred to "stainless" but my recollection now is that it was to be brass, not stainless. Still, they made the switch to Zamak doors. Not a huge deal to me to be honest. I'm not a Zamak basher.

    That said, Gillette never had problems achieving good tolerances with brass doors starting in 1934, so I think the switch to Zamak was a cost-saving issue. Perhaps achieving acceptable tolerances with brass doors would have been prohibitively expensive for Rockwell, but the idea that brass doors can't be manufactured to acceptable tolerances is simply inconsistent with razor-production history from the 1930's forward.

    I'm still a backer of this razor and haven't requested a refund. But I'm critical of the process here.
  17. I think Rockwell gave themselves a massive black eye with how the whole Model T production and delays were/are being handled. I enjoy my 6C and want to get a 6S in the future. However; for the money of a modern adjustable, I'd rather pick up a Rex.
  18. Very true, it was no doubt a cost saving measure, and a necessary one once the Rockwell people realized the required manufacturing process for the Model T. Reading from an informed thread on another forum, I learned that Gillette used a process of "progressive stamping" for their brass parts. This involved feeding sheets of brass into long lines of machines that would progressively stamp the parts. Progressive meaning that, for example, to make a curved silo door with two little legs and hinge holes in either side, they might have something like 8 separate dies / stamping procedures to do that. Each die would cost something like $30,000 today. So tooling alone for a "Fat Boy"-like modern razor using this process would be many hundreds of thousands of dollars. Gillette could do this back in the day because costs were less, they were prodigiously capitalized and their market was huge. I don't think the Rockwell boys had this (or apparently a lot of other things) figured out when they developed their concept for the Model T.
  19. Great explanation, thanks. The thing is, today's artisan manufacturers have the advantages of modern technology, but they don't have all the same conditions that Gillette operated under 50-100 years ago. So it isn't necessarily a good idea to try to copy Gillette's design approaches. I'm not really a vintage collector, but I do have a 1958 Super Speed and a 1962 Slim. These clearly were non-luxury, inexpensive, ordinary household items in their day. But there aren't many inexpensive household items today that are made to their level of precision and close tolerances.

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