- Thread starter
- #41
Definitely a gun for a guy with big hands. A double stack 45 mag takes up a lot of room.
Rock Island and Iver Johnson opinions
- Thread starter oc_in_fw
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #43
That’s a set of mitts right there.
Yeah, Jordon's hands were big. I have fairly large hands with long-ish fingers, but I've shaken Bill Jordan's hand on a couple of occasion when meeting him at the 1996 NRA Dallas convention and again at a Dallas Market Hall gun show years ago and his were overwhelming.
I'm holding a K-Frame Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel here.
I'm holding a K-Frame Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel here.
- Thread starter
- #45
I cleaned Preston Pearson’s (former Dallas Cowboy) air ducts. My hand are by no means small, but his engulfed mine.Yeah, Jordon's hands were big. I have fairly large hands with long-ish fingers, but I've shaken Bill Jordan's hand on a couple of occasion when meeting him at the 1996 NRA Dallas convention and again at a Dallas Market Hall gun show years ago and his were overwhelming.
I'm holding a K-Frame Smith & Wesson Model 10 Heavy Barrel here.
Show and tell and way too much pontification and personal opinion. Will post photos of the 1911 tribe here. Some of these may have been posted in the past.
I hold strong personal opinions about 1911s and what they should be, but I'm far from the last word in 1911-guns, 1911 mechanics, modifications, custom pistols or 1911 lore. Personal opinion holds that the only 1911 as properly defined should be the Model of 1911, and later Model 1911A1 and that's all. All the commercially produced Colts aren't 1911s but rather Government Models. The Colt Gold Cup is not a 1911. Commanders aren't 1911s. The entire raft of non-U. S. military contract 1911 clones aren't 1911s. The various shorties aren't 1911s. The farther one strays from the U. S. military contract pistols the less "1911-ish" they become. This is only one viewpoint though and I fully realize that it is a nit-picky point of view. "1911" as a genre, as a generic term, is as valid as "Kleenex," "Coke," "Aspirin," "Band-Aid", or "Jell-o". People know what one is talking about when he says "1911."
I like my 1911-guns to be the full-sized 5-inch pistol (I'd love to own an example of a Colt Commander - don't want anything shorter). I am a Colt purist to the exclusion of all the clone brands, low dollar or high priced. That's an unnecessarily narrow-minded viewpoint though. I don't admire modifications, much less high-dollar custom jobs from Les Bauer, Nighthawk, Wilson, etc.. Their features and their fineness go right over my head. The following link may be dated. 12 High-Class Custom Shops For 1911 Guns - https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/09/12-high-class-custom-shops-for-1911-guns/ I could acquire several additional satisfactory Colts for the same cost as I could just one of these.
I grew up around the 1911. When I was a kid in the 1960s/early 1970s all that was available were Colt commercial offerings or else surplus U. S. military contract pistols. No clone brands back then. The custom and modified 1911 craze fired up, probably by the late 1960s and were all built out of either Colts or U. S. military. Nobody in my family ever saw custom jobs.
In my family, and extended family, the 1911 was spoken of with proper reverence, considered infallibly reliable in the same way the Glock is reputed to be reliable now. And, that reverential regard proved to be durable. I can think of both military and commercial 1911-guns in the family when I was young which are still being used and still giving perfect satisfaction, to another generation of shooters in most cases.
I don't swap out parts rather I use the pistols as they came from the factory. I don't monkey around mechanically with their innards, open ejection ports, plug in any sort of aftermarket component parts, fiddle with extractors, extra-power recoil springs, install ambidextrous safeties, use full-length guide rods, put in buffers, upgrade sights, beaver tail grip safeties, polish or modify feed ramps ... nothin'. In my view it's all just so much baggage. Only on two pistols have I made minor modifications as will be seen below. In a lifetime of adhering to this policy I have never had a 1911-gun ever bobble. They all just work.
Back in the early 1980s, a deer lease bud got a really nice Colt Government Model .45 in electro-less nickel. It shot a treat too and was unfussy. An auto mechanic by trade, he was an inveterate "fiddler" though and felt that he had superior knowledge about what the 1911-gun "needed." He swapped parts, polished parts and innards, got out the Dremel tool and modified the ejector, worked over the feed ramp, and lowered the ejection port. He overhauled all his magazines to give "better" function. During the course of all this mauling and abuse the pistol received it went from being a nice functioning handgun to being a ridiculous mess. Then he got rid of it in disgust, swearing that the 1911 was an unreliable piece a' junk.
The only thing I learned from observing his experiences was how not to do it. Show me a balky unreliable 1911-gun and I'll show you one that has been bubba'ed. I basically understand their mechanical function and the interrelationship of components and can detail strip 'em, but I don't mess with 'em.
Also, consider that when everyone and his blind uncle from 14 different nations is turning out 1911-guns, some with their own "superior knowledge" of what they think ought to go into building them, expect some deviations in specs, materials, and dimensions, and hence potential functional problems.
Modifying can be a fun and absorbing hobby all its own and it is for many. So are the high-dollar customs, offering pride of ownership for those who care about such things. But, all that and a bag of chips isn't necessarily what the 1911-gun is about. Me, I'd just rather shoot the hooey out of 'em.
I've got Colt .45 automatics so elderly that they predate the year 1911! This is a shabby example of the rare Colt Model 1905 made in quantities of only a little over 6000 pistols. I couldn't have otherwise afforded one except this was a fortuitous find from the granddaughter of a Mexican immigrant who brought it out of Mexico when he came here. The only gun I've named and I call it Pancho Villa because I just "know" it has to have been his personal side arm. Shoots the original version of the .45 ACP, a 200 grain round nose bullet at 900 fps. I duplicate that load with a hand load and shoot this one to a limited extent.
Bought this one for my 21st birthday in 1978. It's a well used World War I Colt Model 1911. Was a worn out clunk when I got it and is a really worn out clunk now. When I was young I fired thousands of reloads though it, all my experimental " high-performance" .45 ACP hand loading efforts were accomplished with it, I learned how 1911s worked with it and how to take it down, and it was the 1911 that I regularly toted, both socially and afield for years. I've often thought of upgrading to a better WWI example, but I'm sentimentally attached to it. The only thing I've ever done to this pistol is infrequently change outs of the recoil spring (when the notion occurs to me). It's never balked once that I can recall in 42 years with functioning ammunition.
An original, unmolested, not arsenal rebuilt, and pretty decent example of an early 1944 production Remington Rand Model 1911A1 from World War II, the "only-est" 1911 on the place that isn't of Colt manufacture. It's one of the "treasures" in the trash & treasures here at the "Home For Wayward Guns." Possessing of a good trigger and is unusually accurate for what it is. Has always given perfect function.
A 1947 vintage Colt commercial Government Model. Very nice to shoot, it's a well-mannered pony. I got it some years ago with intentions to make it my carry 1911, but soon became reluctant to further wear its surface finish with a lot of carry duty. It still goes along on special occasions, even rarely is toted in the vintage Brill holster which is even older than the pistol. Is another of the "treasures" of the menagerie. Sees range time.
These two represent the extent to which I have mod'ed 1911-guns. The Colt Delta Elite 10mm purchased new in February 2016 received some custom stocks because I couldn't abide the ugly rubber stocks it came with. The 1967 vintage Colt Government Model .45 is the pistol a pawn shop seller had dropped on concrete ruining the sights and nothing else so I picked it up for cheap. In a nod to declining reading vision I installed some Harrison Custom Retro sights on it. It's my current favorite "toter." The '67 Colt also wears a set of Colt medallion stocks because its original stocks were warped and "gap-y". The factory plastic style stocks originally provided during the era in which it was produced are prone to warpage. The Delta Elite in 10mm is a potent 1911 variant and goes afield though I've yet to take a deer or feral hog with it. Perhaps this year.
Delta Elite with original factory rubber grips.
Detail of the Altamont stocks on the Delta Elite.
A Colt Gold Cup from 1979 though I bought it new in 1982. This one possess the finest trigger of the tribe and is most accurate. It's been shot quite a bit over the years, but never once carried. Surprisingly enough it's the Remington Rand that comes closes to shooting groups as tight as this pistol is capable of doing. It's the 1911 derivative that is most cranky of the ones here. If used with filthy ammunition it will get balky fairly quickly. It was originally offered by Colt for competition so is tight and fitted out for accuracy. It wouldn't be a 1911 I would choose to carry. Many years ago I did try out a full-length guide rod in this one for a year or so. A gunsmith bud had given it to me. It did nothing to further enhance accuracy, the gun's already more accurate than my capabilities so I yanked it outa' there and re-installed original parts.
A Series 70 Colt Government Model 9mm from 1981. I don't carry this one, but it is almost magical to shoot in 9mm and is great fun for range or plinking use. Another good dependable Colt 1911. Makes for a good way to shoot 1911s on the cheap with inexpensive 9mm factory ammunition. I rarely ever hand load 9mm in any quantity.
My "father and son" Marine Corps Colt from 2014 was mentioned earlier. Seen here with its commemorative stocks installed. This is basically the Colt 1991, having the Series 80 firing system, a trigger-activated firing pin safety which is designed to further prevent an accidental discharge from occurring in the event the gun is dropped. This is at some expense of trigger feel, something that's been made a bigger deal out of than it really is. Least used of the tribe, it does possess the worst trigger of the bunch. It's livable as is though, would improve with more shooting use, or could be polished a bit for crispness. Still, it's a good, usable, accurate gun at the range and could well serve any 1911 purpose.
A photograph pulled off of a GunBroker auction. I ordered out this Government Model in .38 Super just last Thursday. It's suppose to be here by Tuesday next week. I've long wanted to play with the .38 Super cartridge, hand loading for it and testing it over the chronograph. I've felt the .38 Super (and .357 SIG) are everything the 9mm cartridge is cracked up to be, but isn't. Will use this pistol for carry and perhaps for field use on hikes and hunts on our old family place. The two-tone is a real departure for me, a person who really admires blued guns most of all. Maybe a bit flamboyant? Anyway, I was intrigued and thought I'd give this two-tone look a try. The pistol is a Talo edition supposedly limited to 250 pieces. Neither Talo nor the small production variant means a hoot to me. I'm gonna use it. It was cheaper last week online than plain blued .38 Supers. I've been watching them for months and wouldn't you know by the time I gathered funds the blued ones all went up by about a hundred dollars. I am wondering if I may have to mod it with an arched mainspring housing for I don't know if its short trigger in combination with its flat mainspring housing will work well for me. I've not shot that combination before. We'll see.
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- Thread starter
- #47
That's quite a collection.
shoelessjoe
"I took out a Chihuahua!"
Just one question ... do you allow your two metrics to sleep indoors at night?
All jesting aside, what a wonderful post & what a beautiful bevy of 1911s ... I mean, Governments!
Show and tell and way too much pontification and personal opinion. Will post photos of the 1911 tribe here. Some of these may have been posted in the past.
I hold strong personal opinions about 1911s and what they should be, but I'm far from the last word in 1911-guns, 1911 mechanics, modifications, custom pistols or 1911 lore. Personal opinion holds that the only 1911 as properly defined should be the Model of 1911, and later Model 1911A1 and that's all. All the commercially produced Colts aren't 1911s but rather Government Models. The Colt Gold Cup is not a 1911. Commanders aren't 1911s. The entire raft of non-U. S. military contract 1911 clones aren't 1911s. The various shorties aren't 1911s. The farther one strays from the U. S. military contract pistols the less "1911-ish" they become. This is only one viewpoint though and I fully realize that it is a nit-picky point of view. "1911" as a genre, as a generic term, is as valid as "Kleenex," "Coke," "Aspirin," "Band-Aid", or "Jell-o". People know what one is talking about when he says "1911."
I like my 1911-guns to be the full-sized 5-inch pistol (I'd love to own an example of a Colt Commander - don't want anything shorter). I am a Colt purist to the exclusion of all the clone brands, low dollar or high priced. That's an unnecessarily narrow-minded viewpoint though. I don't admire modifications, much less high-dollar custom jobs from Les Bauer, Nighthawk, Wilson, etc.. Their features and their fineness go right over my head. The following link may be dated. 12 High-Class Custom Shops For 1911 Guns - https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2015/09/12-high-class-custom-shops-for-1911-guns/ I could acquire several additional satisfactory Colts for the same cost as I could just one of these.
I grew up around the 1911. When I was a kid in the 1960s/early 1970s all that was available were Colt commercial offerings or else surplus U. S. military contract pistols. No clone brands back then. The custom and modified 1911 craze fired up, probably by the late 1960s and were all built out of either Colts or U. S. military. Nobody in my family ever saw custom jobs.
In my family, and extended family, the 1911 was spoken of with proper reverence, considered infallibly reliable in the same way the Glock is reputed to be reliable now. And, that reverential regard proved to be durable. I can think of both military and commercial 1911-guns in the family when I was young which are still being used and still giving perfect satisfaction, to another generation of shooters in most cases.
I don't swap out parts rather I use the pistols as they came from the factory. I don't monkey around mechanically with their innards, open ejection ports, plug in any sort of aftermarket component parts, fiddle with extractors, extra-power recoil springs, install ambidextrous safeties, use full-length guide rods, put in buffers, upgrade sights, beaver tail grip safeties, polish or modify feed ramps ... nothin'. In my view it's all just so much baggage. Only on two pistols have I made minor modifications as will be seen below. In a lifetime of adhering to this policy I have never had a 1911-gun ever bobble. They all just work.
Back in the early 1980s, a deer lease bud got a really nice Colt Government Model .45 in electro-less nickel. It shot a treat too and was unfussy. An auto mechanic by trade, he was an inveterate "fiddler" though and felt that he had superior knowledge about what the 1911-gun "needed." He swapped parts, polished parts and innards, got out the Dremel tool and modified the ejector, worked over the feed ramp, and lowered the ejection port. He overhauled all his magazines to give "better" function. During the course of all this mauling and abuse the pistol received it went from being a nice functioning handgun to being a ridiculous mess. Then he got rid of it in disgust, swearing that the 1911 was an unreliable piece a' junk.
The only thing I learned from observing his experiences was how not to do it. Show me a balky unreliable 1911-gun and I'll show you one that has been bubba'ed. I basically understand their mechanical function and the interrelationship of components and can detail strip 'em, but I don't mess with 'em.
Also, consider that when everyone and his blind uncle from 14 different nations is turning out 1911-guns, some with their own "superior knowledge" of what they think ought to go into building them, expect some deviations in specs, materials, and dimensions, and hence potential functional problems.
Modifying can be a fun and absorbing hobby all its own and it is for many. So are the high-dollar customs, offering pride of ownership for those who care about such things. But, all that and a bag of chips isn't necessarily what the 1911-gun is about. Me, I'd just rather shoot the hooey out of 'em.
I've got Colt .45 automatics so elderly that they predate the year 1911! This is a shabby example of the rare Colt Model 1905 made in quantities of only a little over 6000 pistols. I couldn't have otherwise afforded one except this was a fortuitous find from the granddaughter of a Mexican immigrant who brought it out of Mexico when he came here. The only gun I've named and I call it Pancho Villa because I just "know" it has to have been his personal side arm. Shoots the original version of the .45 ACP, a 200 grain round nose bullet at 900 fps. I duplicate that load with a hand load and shoot this one to a limited extent.
Bought this one for my 21st birthday in 1978. It's a well used World War I Colt Model 1911. Was a worn out clunk when I got it and is a really worn out clunk now. When I was young I fired thousands of reloads though it, all my experimental " high-performance" .45 ACP hand loading efforts were accomplished with it, I learned how 1911s worked with it and how to take it down, and it was the 1911 that I regularly toted, both socially and afield for years. I've often thought of upgrading to a better WWI example, but I'm sentimentally attached to it. The only thing I've ever done to this pistol is infrequently change outs of the recoil spring (when the notion occurs to me). It's never balked once that I can recall in 42 years with functioning ammunition.
An original, unmolested, not arsenal rebuilt, and pretty decent example of an early 1944 production Remington Rand Model 1911A1 from World War II, the "only-est" 1911 on the place that isn't of Colt manufacture. It's one of the "treasures" in the trash & treasures here at the "Home For Wayward Guns." Possessing of a good trigger and is unusually accurate for what it is. Has always given perfect function.
A 1947 vintage Colt commercial Government Model. Very nice to shoot, it's a well-mannered pony. I got it some years ago with intentions to make it my carry 1911, but soon became reluctant to further wear its surface finish with a lot of carry duty. It still goes along on special occasions, even rarely is toted in the vintage Brill holster which is even older than the pistol. Is another of the "treasures" of the menagerie. Sees range time.
These two represent the extent to which I have mod'ed 1911-guns. The Colt Delta Elite 10mm purchased new in February 2016 received some custom stocks because I couldn't abide the ugly rubber stocks it came with. The 1967 vintage Colt Government Model .45 is the pistol a pawn shop seller had dropped on concrete ruining the sights and nothing else so I picked it up for cheap. In a nod to declining reading vision I installed some Harrison Custom Retro sights on it. It's my current favorite "toter." The '67 Colt also wears a set of Colt medallion stocks because its original stocks were warped and "gap-y". The factory plastic style stocks originally provided during the era in which it was produced are prone to warpage. The Delta Elite in 10mm is a potent 1911 variant and goes afield though I've yet to take a deer or feral hog with it. Perhaps this year.
Delta Elite with original factory rubber grips.
Detail of the Altamont stocks on the Delta Elite.
A Colt Gold Cup from 1979 though I bought it new in 1982. This one possess the finest trigger of the tribe and is most accurate. It's been shot quite a bit over the years, but never once carried. Surprisingly enough it's the Remington Rand that comes closes to shooting groups as tight as this pistol is capable of doing. It's the 1911 derivative that is most cranky of the ones here. If used with filthy ammunition it will get balky fairly quickly. It was originally offered by Colt for competition so is tight and fitted out for accuracy. It wouldn't be a 1911 I would choose to carry. Many years ago I did try out a full-length guide rod in this one for a year or so. A gunsmith bud had given it to me. It did nothing to further enhance accuracy, the gun's already more accurate than my capabilities so I yanked it outa' there and re-installed original parts.
A Series 70 Colt Government Model 9mm from 1981. I don't carry this one, but it is almost magical to shoot in 9mm and is great fun for range or plinking use. Another good dependable Colt 1911. Makes for a good way to shoot 1911s on the cheap with inexpensive 9mm factory ammunition. I rarely ever hand load 9mm in any quantity.
My "father and son" Marine Corps Colt from 2014 was mentioned earlier. Seen here with its commemorative stocks installed. This is basically the Colt 1991, having the Series 80 firing system, a trigger-activated firing pin safety which is designed to further prevent an accidental discharge from occurring in the event the gun is dropped. This is at some expense of trigger feel, something that's been made a bigger deal out of than it really is. Least used of the tribe, it does possess the worst trigger of the bunch. It's livable as is though, would improve with more shooting use, or could be polished a bit for crispness. Still, it's a good, usable, accurate gun at the range and could well serve any 1911 purpose.
View attachment 1068858
A photograph pulled off of a GunBroker auction. I ordered out this Government Model in .38 Super just last Thursday. It's suppose to be here by Tuesday next week. I've long wanted to play with the .38 Super cartridge, hand loading for it and testing it over the chronograph. I've felt the .38 Super (and .357 SIG) are everything the 9mm cartridge is cracked up to be, but isn't. Will use this pistol for carry and perhaps for field use on hikes and hunts on our old family place. The two-tone is a real departure for me, a person who really admires blued guns most of all. Maybe a bit flamboyant? Anyway, I was intrigued and thought I'd give this two-tone look a try. The pistol is a Talo edition supposedly limited to 250 pieces. Neither Talo nor the small production variant means a hoot to me. I'm gonna use it. It was cheaper last week online than plain blued .38 Supers. I've been watching them for months and wouldn't you know by the time I gathered funds the blued ones all went up by about a hundred dollars. I am wondering if I may have to mod it with an arched mainspring housing for I don't know if its short trigger in combination with its flat mainspring housing will work well for me. I've not shot that combination before. We'll see.
That really was an awesome post to read on Sunday morning!
My cousin has a beautiful two-tone Colt Commander, which he shoots badly.
I hope to acquire it someday. I put Crimson Traces on it, but he's not a .45 guy.AA
Astra, Star, & Llama all make great firearms although my pref is Star. Their 1911 near copies are superb.
Perhaps not clones but many derivative copies of the 1911 were available then. The Ballester-Molina, Llama, & Star. Also the license built 1911 Norwegian "Kongsberg" version. While the Ballester-Molina & Kongsberg would have been a fun show find, the Llamas & Stars were being flogged everywhere by the Garcia Sports & Interarms import companies
Amazing piece as well as its origin. Mexico, Central, & South America always had near mythic regard for the rampant stallion. Whomever originally owned that piece would have carried it with bursting pride then. Thanks for posting.
Of the Spanish pistols of now bygone times, I'm more keen on the Astras and the Stars than I am the Llamas. The LLamas I've examined or had dealings with, seemed to be made steels that were soft, at least the small component parts were. Just an opinion by someone who has no particular knowledge of metallurgy.
Like Astra and Star. Shame they're gone.
In other news: Yea, the .38 Super arrived! Gonna try to go shoot it before the forecasted deluge arrives later today.
Like Astra and Star. Shame they're gone.
In other news: Yea, the .38 Super arrived! Gonna try to go shoot it before the forecasted deluge arrives later today.
Both killed by the Wonder 9 bug in the 80s.
Of the Spanish pistols of now bygone times, I'm more keen on the Astras and the Stars than I am the Llamas. The LLamas I've examined or had dealings with, seemed to be made steels that were soft, at least the small component parts were. Just an opinion by someone who has no particular knowledge of metallurgy.
Like Astra and Star. Shame they're gone.
In other news: Yea, the .38 Super arrived! Gonna try to go shoot it before the forecasted deluge arrives later today.
Beautiful!
I was watching some you tube reviews on 1911 Pistols. Several times the Iver Johnson’s were mentioned as fine 1911 pistols by people who shot Dan Wesson and Colt. It made me think about this thread.
- Thread starter
- #57
Probably going with the Springfield Mil-Spec. I found out that a buddy has one and loves it. It also like that there isn’t a lot of graffiti on the slide (unlike the ugly-to-me Desert Eagle 1911).
Looking forward to the range report!
- Thread starter
- #59
Got the wife about 80% to yes- soon.
I would have him figured as an N-frame guy with those mitts, but he shot a K-frame.
