RH Preyda "Arkansas" Whetstones anyone have any experience with these?

[croyleje]

Hello Everyone,
Preyda offers a whetstone made of novaculite and I assume one of the oxide binders. There literature says they cut faster and wear better then natural stones. I can believe the cutting fast especially if the binder being used and weather there is any added abrasives to the mix. As for the wearing better that I'll have to see that but my question is has anyone used one of these stones? I order one of there surgical black stones and was unimpressed, it wasn't terrible but I was expecting something on the level of Dan's and it wasn't. The idea of using a 1000 grit Arkansas whetsone to set the bevel then using there 8000 girt Arkansas stone and finally finishing on the Dan's hard black sounds like it could be and interesting progression to try out. Just hoping someone here has put there hands on one of Novaculite based whetsones.

 

[Bowmaker]

I don't have any experience with them stones. I would like to know about the Pryda black though if you would care to share your thoughts on it?

 

[croyleje]

The Preyda Surgical Black was no what I expected I know you can't tell anything from the color of an Arkansas stone but overall the stone was more of a grayish color with one edge having a more blackish shade to it. What bothered me the most was it looked like there are voids not big ones but it was like grains with little air gays between them very uniform but not very dense. I have never purchased any soft Arkansas stones to compare it with but even after lapping there was I guess what you would call pours over the whole surface the edge that was more black seemed a little better but my Dan's stone when lapped not even burnished was very close to a smooth homogeneous surface I can't say the same for the Preyda. I am not saying anything bad about the company I have heard they sell nice stones and I have personally only ever seen the one I purchased but it is not the same as my Dan's stone it would probably be an excellent stone for knives but I never even tried using it ended up using it as a way to break in DMT plates. Hope this helps you I chalked it up to there being a reason there so much cheaper then other company's and the place I found it was a knife seller.

 

[Alum of Potash]

The Hall's Arkansas line became Preyda a few years back. Seemed like a buyout as I recall the Preyda company being based in the Chicago area, not Arkansas. That's all I know.

From an old e-mail from 2016:

Alexis Cozzini <[email protected]>
Thu 2/11/2016 5:22 PM



Forward

We are excited to announce that Hall Sharp Stones is now RH Preyda.

Please note that www.hallsharpstones.com is no longer active. You can now find us on our new and improved site at www.rhpreyda.com featuring our full product line, as well as our newest product selections.

If you have placed an order with us that is pending shipment, you will still receive your order.

Should you have any questions or need further information please feel free to contact me directly at [email protected]

We look forward to seeing you at Home - RH Preyda - https://rhpreyda.com

Home Page - RH Preyda rhpreyda.com RH Preyda was founded in Chicago in 2013 after discovering an industry desire for fine quality natural sharpening stones. Produced only in Arkansas, RH Preyda ...

Alexis Cozzini
Director Of Business Development
RH Preyda
333 N. Michigan Ave., Suite #3000
Chicago, IL 60601 USA
Phone: +1.312.880.1477
Fax: +1.312.880.1465
www.rhpreyda.com
Finest Quality . Natural . Arkansas Stone

 

[Legion]

I asked about these in another thread, but got no answer. Curious to hear if anyone has tried them.

 

[Gamma]

If you call the company and talk to Oscar he can elaborate on them for you. That said, he's selling something and his point of view might be biased. Even so, he knows more about them than anyone else. They do make odd stuff - I remember the striped stones with alternating layers of soft and hard Ark... I never did figure that one out.
I have one of Preydas 'SB' Arks, he sent it to me after I interviewed him. Great stone, easily an equal to anything Dan sells.
Without pics I can't say for sure but by description yours sounds like a 'second' that got through QC. Some of Dan's 'bargain' translucent stones and ultra fine blacks have small voids in them. In fact, some of their 1st quality stones do also. Natural stones are funny like that.
I am sure if you call Preyda and explain your situation to them they might consider trying to make things right. But since you haven't actually used it, you don't know how good it is or is not. So there's a possibility of sending a great stone with visual distractions back to get one that is aesthetically pleasing but maybe not a nice to hone on.

 

[duke762]

Preyda offers a whetstone made of novaculite and I assume one of the oxide binders.

Isn't this the same concept as the Arkarams (trademark name? or has it become generic like Kleenex) similar stones have been offered by other manufacturer also. I have 2 Arkeram type stones for tool use, I wouldn't trust them with razors. NWC sold them IIRC.

 

[croyleje]

Isn't this the same concept as the Arkarams (trademark name? or has it become generic like Kleenex) similar stones have been offered by other manufacturer also. I have 2 Arkeram type stones for tool use, I wouldn't trust them with razors. NWC sold them IIRC.

The main thing I was trying to find out about these novaculite powder and binder stones was there speed. Is novaculite slow because of some physical property or is it slow because of the way it is presented in the natural Arkansas whetstone form. If the novaculite and binder stones are faster cutting then a natural ark then the idea of "novaculite" progression might be achievable relatively quickly with a few of these stones and then finishing on a nice hard black or translucent stone. The more I have thought about it I think I have decided to just purchase a couple there pretty inexpensive and worst case I have a couple more whetstones and that never hurts.

 

[Alum of Potash]

FWIW, from my experience an Arkaram is sort of like a soft no. 1 Washita. Sets the bevel well and can be followed by the finer Arkansas of your preference.

 

[ErieSurfer]

The main thing I was trying to find out about these novaculite powder and binder stones was there speed. Is novaculite slow because of some physical property or is it slow because of the way it is presented in the natural Arkansas whetstone form. If the novaculite and binder stones are faster cutting then a natural ark then the idea of "novaculite" progression might be achievable relatively quickly with a few of these stones and then finishing on a nice hard black or translucent stone. The more I have thought about it I think I have decided to just purchase a couple there pretty inexpensive and worst case I have a couple more whetstones and that never hurts.

I've been thinking similar thoughts, though not about speed. My present belief is that novaculite speed is a function of both SG/density and the surface finish applied to the stone. Griswold writes about Arkansas stone porosity and indicates that Washita (Ouachita) porosity is MUCH greater than the standard Arkansas stone of that era (SG=>2.64). He also writes that the silica walls of the cavities are much more compact than the silica mass adjacent to the cavities. He indicates that the silica walls contribute to cutting aggression and the adjacent silica contributes to polishing.

I've come across Alum's thoughts regarding the Arkerams while reading older threads, and also saw the photos of the synthetic stone that Tim found in the wild. I was surprised when I saw some new Arkerams offered on Ebay, so I bought one. Maybe the postman will deliver it one day. I also picked up a Colorado Ceramics stone in an auction lot, but I haven't played with it yet. I don't expect either of the stones to be better than an ark, but maybe they will bring something different and interesting to the table.

I have not played with the Preyda product that is the subject of this thread, so I don't know if it is more like an Arkeram in that it is going to need to be lapped fairly often, or more like the Colorado Ceramics that might only need to be lapped once-a-century. Maybe the knife forum enthusiasts have some experiences with the Preyda product?

 

[frbock]

I've been thinking similar thoughts, though not about speed. My present belief is that novaculite speed is a function of both SG/density and the surface finish applied to the stone. Griswold writes about Arkansas stone porosity and indicates that Washita (Ouachita) porosity is MUCH greater than the standard Arkansas stone of that era (SG=>2.64). He also writes that the silica walls of the cavities are much more compact than the silica mass adjacent to the cavities. He indicates that the silica walls contribute to cutting aggression and the adjacent silica contributes to polishing.

I've come across Alum's thoughts regarding the Arkerams while reading older threads, and also saw the photos of the synthetic stone that Tim found in the wild. I was surprised when I saw some new Arkerams offered on Ebay, so I bought one. Maybe the postman will deliver it one day. I also picked up a Colorado Ceramics stone in an auction lot, but I haven't played with it yet. I don't expect either of the stones to be better than an ark, but maybe they will bring something different and interesting to the table.

I have not played with the Preyda product that is the subject of this thread, so I don't know if it is more like an Arkeram in that it is going to need to be lapped fairly often, or more like the Colorado Ceramics that might only need to be lapped once-a-century. Maybe the knife forum enthusiasts have some experiences with the Preyda product?

I can give a little insight. Noviculite stones work by having 2 separate actions going on at the same time.
1) the abrasion of the steel on the stone
2) pieces of the stone break off, and are now part of the swarf. They are finer than the stone itself. That's why the claims of sharpen and polish.
The waterstone looks like it's trying to get the particles to release more quickly than the natural stone. If that's the case, the only reason for lapping is to level it

 

[cotedupy]

Novaculites are actually really quite fast stones, because they're basically 100% Silicon Dioxide (silica), which is waht almost all natural stones have as their abrasive. In some cases blindingly fast; a Washita or Turkish will smoke anything, natural or synthetic, in terms of of how quick it'll work combined with how fine it'll finish. Though they do so for different reasons.

All of the cutting character of a novaculite comes from its structure. The speed of a Washita comes from porosity, that of the Turkish from a little porosity, combined with more friability. The reason that trans and hard black Arkansas can appear slow is that they're not particularly porous, and they're not friable which means they burnish very quickly. But if you rough the surface of one it's a very fast stone indeed for how fine it is, if only for a short time.

---

As noted above - the idea of putting novaculite powder with a binder will be to make it a little more friable and increase the speed. But pretty much by definition that's going to make it finish less fine, and be less good for razors.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but the idea itself strikes me as inherently stupid. A stone made from powered novaculite + binder is just like a synth based on Silicon Dioxide. And there's a reason people don't do that; because SiO2 is only marginally harder than hardened steel, so doesn't cut it as well as Silicon Carbide or Aluminium Oxide, which is what most synths are made out of. You might just as well make a whetstone using crushed up sand.

All of the unique cutting character of a novaculite comes from its structure.

 

[Empire straights]

The main thing I was trying to find out about these novaculite powder and binder stones was there speed. Is novaculite slow because of some physical property or is it slow because of the way it is presented in the natural Arkansas whetstone form. If the novaculite and binder stones are faster cutting then a natural ark then the idea of "novaculite" progression might be achievable relatively quickly with a few of these stones and then finishing on a nice hard black or translucent stone. The more I have thought about it I think I have decided to just purchase a couple there pretty inexpensive and worst case I have a couple more whetstones and that never hurts.

Novaculite is usually slow because of a lack of pressure and over burnishing in my opinion. Arks like more torque(pressure) than most new razor honers are comfortable with when finished at #600 my arks are pretty fast, they took over the western world in popularity for a reason. I've never used anything from RH Preyda but if you're(or anyone) looking for economical finishers Dans large pocket stones(1.5"x4.5") are a good as I've seen and they're perfect for traveling or tradesmen. Mine goes with me everywhere(like my chisels).