Resetting a Knot Without Damaging it

[Chumango]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but a search only shows threads where people don't care about the knot being removed -

I got a Maggard 24 mm SHD bulb and set it at about 50 mm. It is great at that loft. I then got a 24 mm fan and set it at the same loft. I think I would like to set it a little lower. I used the silicone adhesive that Maggard sells. I have tried pulling on the knot, but no go.

Will steaming the knot damage it?

 

[muzichead]

Will steaming the knot damage it?

It shouldn't...

 

[VerbaVolant]

I believe it would.

 

[Timeclo]

There's a possibility of damaging the knot. I have steamed out 4 knots and damaged 2 of them. That said, I used epoxy so silicone might be easier to pull out.

 

[VerbaVolant]

This will be interesting. Please keep us in the loop.

Hardman

 

[JoeLr]

How hot does your tap water straight from the faucet get? A buddy actually had a knot come loose (it had been set w/ clear waterproof silicone) after holding under his hot tap faucet for a "few" minutes, might work for you too.

 

[Rudy Vey]

This will be interesting. Please keep us in the loop.

Hardman

This is interesting info, where do you find these??

 

[SliceOfLife]

I've tried boiling the knot out of maybe 6 brushes.

1 it went easy as could be
1 it was a struggle but worked
4 it did nothing and/or destroyed the handle before the knot came loose

Really depends on the glue used. I'd ask Maggard.

 

[Chumango]

Brad at Maggard suggested a hot tap water soak followed by pulling/twisting. That did not work.

I do like the knot, it is nice and very usable as is, it just bloomed a lot larger than I expected. Also, I wouldn't mind a little more backbone. Both issues would be improved by setting it lower. The most I can go with the current handle would be 1.5 mm lower.

 

[VerbaVolant]

This is interesting info, where do you find these??

Give them a call.

 

[VerbaVolant]

Brad at Maggard suggested a hot tap water soak followed by pulling/twisting. That did not work.

I do like the knot, it is nice and very usable as is, it just bloomed a lot larger than I expected. Also, I wouldn't mind a little more backbone. Both issues would be improved by setting it lower. The most I can go with the current handle would be 1.5 mm lower.

Here are my thoughts. The adhesive (allegedly) used has a maximum working temperature of 232°C (450°F). The hottest tap water one could have is around 60°C (roughly scalding temperature for us, humans). I am almost certain that the physical properties of the adhesive advertised as being used will not change much at that temperature. Hence, your knot is still in the handle.
1.5mm lower in the handle would not make a noticeable difference for a silvetip. 5mm? Yes.

Much more to say about "steaming" a brush, as there is a wide variety of materials used in a handle. And all behave differently at higher temperatures (let's say above 60°C). Discoloration is almost certain. Don't ask how I know.

Anyway, good luck with your project. Take lots of pictures and let us know how it goes.

 

[VerbaVolant]

One of my favorite brushes has a Golden Nib 24mm silvertip A fan with a 45mm loft.

 

[Chumango]

Here are my thoughts. The adhesive (allegedly) used has a maximum working temperature of 232°C (450°F).

I hadn't thought of it that way. The adhesive is stated to be water resistant, and performs up to 450 F. Steaming the brush on my stove will not loosen the glue, but would only potentially harm the knot and/or handle. So I will not attempt it. It looks like I will use the brush as is.

 

[Rudy Vey]

I always advised not to use heat/stream for removing a knot, it may not only damage the handle, but also the glue that is used to make the knot itself.
It may work on older brushes where the knot was set in old fashioned glues, rubber or so, but modern glues are a totally different animal.

 

[Chumango]

Both are 24 mm SHD set at 50 mm, the fan bloomed a lot larger than the bulb, 3 times nominal knot size.

 

[jaro 101969]

Well have you tried the O- ring trick I mean instead of removing the knot and potentially damaging either the knot or the handle you could just put the O ring on and that might give you the equivalent of 1.5 or 2 mm worth of lowering and you know that won't damage it.

 

[Chumango]

Well have you tried the O- ring trick I mean instead of removing the knot and potentially damaging either the knot or the handle you could just put the O ring on and that might give you the equivalent of 1.5 or 2 mm worth of lowering and you know that won't damage it.

That's an idea...now to find an appropriately sized O-ring. It would be a good way to see if it really makes a difference.

 

[dfoulk]

If it were set in silicone the knot will likely release at some point. I'd likely reach for the brush almost daily for a while and give a slight tug on the knot before every shave or whenever I walked by it. With increased use and some patience you can likely reuse the knot and save the handle as well.

If it's set in epoxy you'll likely end up damaging either the knot or the handle or both. With an epoxy set knot, often times it's better to sell the brush to someone else that will enjoy it and purchase something new.

 

[Chumango]

A spare MSR fuel bottle O-ring is the right size. Its thickness makes it like the knot was set about 2-2.5 mm deeper, and the difference in bloom and backbone is noticeable.

 

[VerbaVolant]

...Steaming the brush on my stove will not loosen the glue, but would only potentially harm the knot and/or handle...

Yeah, you got it!