Ready to give up

[MO1]

I didnt give you a complete answer Chan Eli whiskers sorry about that.
I set the bevel on synthetics then progress up to an 8k then i make a light slurry and dilute that maybe 1 time for 20 laps? Then repeat that about 10 times With decreasing preassure eatch time. Then only water with light preassure until i start to feel resistance then under running water.
Let the stone dry then maybe 50 laps on oil.( I wasnt counting, but you dont get the same resistance feel on oil)
Could start from my 4k but alot of steps to mess up as im still new to the coticule.
Then 50 linen then 100 leather.
That would kinda be my "stone finish".

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I have no direct method to it, if i feel like my edge wants to cut anything in its path (more like see, as i get small blood spots, cant really feel it until afterwards when i rinse my face)
Then i move onto water on the coticule and do maybe 5 Max 10 laps. If i dont want to tone it down too much i usually go to oil on my coticule.
I dont know what the oil does on a coticule but it is a really nice way to finish it.
Im still experimenting, but i have gotten consistent results with that method.

I use oil on the coticle too. Thanks for the information.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[MO1]

I use oil on the coticle too. Thanks for the information.

Happy shaves,

Jim

How do you finish on your coticule?
Do you use the dulicot method in a special way?
Quite fascinating how many methods there are for the coticule.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

How do you finish on your coticule?
Do you use the dulicot method in a special way?
Quite fascinating how many methods there are for the coticule.

I use the Dilucot Oil Method. A term I made up. I have posted about it on my Damn Comfortable Shave thread.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I didnt give you a complete answer Chan Eli whiskers sorry about that.
I set the bevel on synthetics then progress up to an 8k then i make a light slurry and dilute that maybe 1 time for 20 laps? Then repeat that about 10 times With decreasing preassure eatch time. Then only water with light preassure until i start to feel resistance then under running water.
Let the stone dry then maybe 50 laps on oil.( I wasnt counting, but you dont get the same resistance feel on oil)
Could start from my 4k but alot of steps to mess up as im still new to the coticule.
Then 50 linen then 100 leather.
That would kinda be my "stone finish".

I do much the same. Maybe set the bevel on the coticle, too,

 

[monco]

Ok, based on your advice I think I best start working with the edge. I am planning to follow Slash McCoy's instructions on using diamond pastes on balsa.

So that would mean diamond pastes at .1u, and .25u, and .5u. (And I'll consider also buying 1u and 3u diamond pastes in the same order, if the price doesn't get too high.)

Probably wisest to get it directly from tedpella.com. Probably at least items 895-4, 895-5 and 895-6 in this page. I can't find CrOx and FerOx at Ted Pella, so I'll skip them for now. I'll get these from Ebay separately if needed, but diamond pastes allow me to follow Slash's instructions precisely.

I'll investigate where to get a Coticule or other good finishing stone at reasonable price in EU. That's something I'll try next if the pastes don't give the needed sharpness.

 

[MO1]

Ok, based on your advice I think I best start working with the edge. I am planning to follow Slash McCoy's instructions on using diamond pastes on balsa.

So that would mean diamond pastes at .1u, and .25u, and .5u. (And I'll consider also buying 1u and 3u diamond pastes in the same order, if the price doesn't get too high.)

Probably wisest to get it directly from tedpella.com. Probably at least items 895-4, 895-5 and 895-6 in this page. I can't find CrOx and FerOx at Ted Pella, so I'll skip them for now. I'll get these from Ebay separately if needed, but diamond pastes allow me to follow Slash's instructions precisely.

I'll investigate where to get a Coticule or other good finishing stone at reasonable price in EU. That's something I'll try next if the pastes don't give the needed sharpness.

Ardennes coticule would be my place to order if you live in europe. They only ship once a week though, on friday.

But im sure you will get the necessary sharpness with slash mccoys method, you may even look for a way to tone down your razors

 

[monco]

Where do you guys order diamond paste in Europe?

I investigated Ted Pella but they don't disclose shipping costs prior to actual shipping. My order would be only 19 USD (0.1 and 0.25 micron pastes) but I what I've gathered, they probably use Fedex (?) and shipping will be at least 20 bucks, if not more.

I can find up to 0.25 micron diamond paste locally, but 0.1 (or similar grade) seems to be nonexistent.

Any ideas where to order affordable 0.1 micron diamond paste or spray in UK/EU? Chinese stuff from Ebay would also be ok, if you can recommend some, since I suspect price will be so low that I don't need to bother with customs and shipping should also be cheap.

 

[paintflinger]

@monco the thing I'm struggling with is you're at HHT4 after 1micron film and stropping, which is what I would expect. That kind of an edge should cut chin hair easily, so I'm thinking this isn't a sharpness thing and is more technique/prep. Have you tried one of the more moisturizing soaps out there (Cella isn't particularly full of superfats)?

 

[monco]

@monco the thing I'm struggling with is you're at HHT4 after 1micron film and stropping, which is what I would expect. That kind of an edge should cut chin hair easily, so I'm thinking this isn't a sharpness thing and is more technique/prep. Have you tried one of the more moisturizing soaps out there (Cella isn't particularly full of superfats)?

Thanks, I really appreciate your input as I am still looking for a solution!

I agree that I surely am close with the sharpness. I anyway ordered diamond pastes up to (down to?) 0.1u from Polish Ebay seller open_razor (as recommended in another thread) and we'll soon get to see if they help anything.

On the other hand, would you have some suggestions about moisturizing soaps? I have tried many, from Col. Conk to MWF, Proraso, Palmolive, etc. I.e. nothing special but the list includes many common, good soaps. But Tabac is still my favorite by far. Cella does not seem bad per se, but I cannot judge about its moisturizing capabilities. I have tried shaving even with canned goo, but never tried lathering actual shaving creams.

 

[Dzaw]

Cella and Tabac are more than good enough to get you a great shave with sufficient water to make them slick (and slick they will get!). There are better soaps out there, but these are well past sufficient and into good/great territory.

How is your prep? Human hairs have a tough outer layer (called a cuticle) made of keratin, and coated in a waxy oil called sebum. They shave a lot easier if you strip the sebum away and soften the keratin. A highly alkaline bath soap and hot water will do both. Once you wash the beard with a good soap and hot water, lather it up with warm lather either from the same bath soap or a good shaving soap (a nice warm wet lather) and let the whiskers soak up the hydration for at least 3 minutes. Then a hot water rinse and lather up to shave. This prep is easy to do in the shower, or under a hot wet towel. This should really ensure those tough chin whiskers are primed and ready to shave.

Most bar soaps are alkaline enough to do well at this, but many can be drying to the skin. Many body bars, body washes, etc. aren’t actually soap and aren’t alkaline enough. Personally, I can recommend Yardley of London bar soaps as being highly alkaline as well as moisturizing, and they’ve taken my prep to another level.

 

[monco]

Most bar soaps are alkaline enough to do well at this, but many can be drying to the skin. Many body bars, body washes, etc. aren’t actually soap and aren’t alkaline enough. Personally, I can recommend Yardley of London bar soaps as being highly alkaline as well as moisturizing, and they’ve taken my prep to another level.

Would washing my face with shaving lather count? I've tried to first lather, then rub the lather to the face to moisten and clean the whiskers, then rinse it off and relather for the shave. It helps somewhat but, well, not enough.

On another note, I finally received 0.5, 0.25 and 0.1 micron diamond pastes but the results are unconclusive as I didn't have time yet to play around with them too much. I applied them to lapped balsa, but frankly I did not get any satisfactory results. I tried to sharpen 3 of my best razors but only one of them started showing some promise. I've only done the shave test two times, though. Interestingly, after diamond paste treatment, all 3 razors became worse (!) on HHT but they still treetop arm/chest/leg hair with flying colors (to the level that I am not sure how they can be much better, while OTOH they did perform this test amazingly well even before the diamond pastes). So I'll get back to that, hopefully with better, more conclusive results.

 

[Twelvefret]

Some do a pre shave face wash with glycerin. Glycerin bar soap is fairly easy to find

 

[Dzaw]

Washing your face with shaving lather may help a bit, but best practice seems to be to use a very alkaline soap, water about as hot as your face can comfortably withstand (do not scald yourself - it would be counterproductive), and let the very wet, very alkaline environment -soak- the hairs for 3 minutes. After 3 minutes (I can’t remember where I read that figure, but it was in a context where I was inclined to give it some credibility) the hair won’t benefit any more from such a treatment, but up to and including 3 full minutes of hot, alkaline soaking the hair does continue to open, swell, absorb water, and thus soften and get easier to shave.

Alternatively, you could try the opposite approach. Some men have found that instead of a hot, long prep, their shaves are notably improved by a quick splash of cool or even cold water, then lather up and shave. The theory there is to stiffen the hair and it gets easier for it to cut cleanly, rather than bend with the blade and end up partially with a lengthwise or diagonal slice into the hair, which could cause catching and tugging.

Either approach works. I’ve had success with each, though I can’t seem to keep having consecutive successes with the cold method. What doesn’t seem to work out well for anyone is a lackluster plan that lands somewhere between the extremes. That usually seems to be a recipe for an uncomfortable and less than close shave.

 

[ajduplessis]

Cella and Tabac are more than good enough to get you a great shave with sufficient water to make them slick (and slick they will get!). There are better soaps out there, but these are well past sufficient and into good/great territory.

How is your prep? Human hairs have a tough outer layer (called a cuticle) made of keratin, and coated in a waxy oil called sebum. They shave a lot easier if you strip the sebum away and soften the keratin. A highly alkaline bath soap and hot water will do both. Once you wash the beard with a good soap and hot water, lather it up with warm lather either from the same bath soap or a good shaving soap (a nice warm wet lather) and let the whiskers soak up the hydration for at least 3 minutes. Then a hot water rinse and lather up to shave. This prep is easy to do in the shower, or under a hot wet towel. This should really ensure those tough chin whiskers are primed and ready to shave.

Most bar soaps are alkaline enough to do well at this, but many can be drying to the skin. Many body bars, body washes, etc. aren’t actually soap and aren’t alkaline enough. Personally, I can recommend Yardley of London bar soaps as being highly alkaline as well as moisturizing, and they’ve taken my prep to another level.

High alkaline soap will also strip the sebum oil from your skin, continual use will likely result in over production in the skin to compensate, leading to problems. I understand you want to soften the whiskers, but in doing so you negatively impact the skin. You have to find the correct balance for your skin. You want to keep your skin in the most healthy state as possible.

 

[monco]

Now that the weekend is setting in and I finally have some free time, I'll comment on my current progress with diamond paste.

Out of my 3 best razors, Friodur (stainless) got the best edge after 0.5 micron. The edge started getting into what I would say a much more solid HHT-4. I gave it 100 laps. I proceeded with 0.25 and 0.1, 50 laps each, then a good 70 laps with a hanging unpasted leather strop. And guess what, HHT results are gone, the edge barely performs HHT-3 anymore. Did I really do this bad? Why did the 0.5 micron noticeably raise the HTT results while others didn't? Anyway, the razor still seemed very sharp judged by arm hair test.

Well, onto the shave, the real test. For the first time like, ever, the shave actually felt solid (on my chin especially so). It was easier to shave my chin and I felt in lines of "wow, I can actually do this now!" I did a WTG pass only and used very little pressure as always: I would say the shave went normal in every aspect except it felt much easier (altogether possible!) to do my chin.

I then went to start my day with full of energy and feeling great, but after few hours I noticed that while my chin is somewhat better shaven than usual with a straight (although not as good as I normally get with a cartridge), my cheeks and neck are not and I could feel the stubble with my hand which I usually don't. In summary I had such a "dirty" feeling of improper shave or not having shaved at all. During the day I started to feel irritation and by the evening my face was starting to get reddish. Yes, I've had razor burn before from straights, but last occasion was several, maybe over 7 years ago. This felt like one of my first shaves and actually my entire cheeks and neck was getting reddish, although it probably wasn't the worst kind of burn and redness only lasted overnight.

So, gentlemen, did my razor actually get too sharp as you suggested could happen? Should I refrain from diamond pastes or try to smoothen my edge somehow? Before diamond pastes I was able to get a nice shave on my cheeks and neck, but was practically unable to shave my chin. Now it is almost like vice versa, even though I have only one shave behind me

I tried to shave with the same razor the next day, stropping it on leather first, but I didn't feel any of the same sharpness on my chin anymore. So it could have been a foil edge, as well. I had to finish with a cartridge since my skin was sore from the razor burn still.

And yes, all this may be due to my prep. I'm yet to find a suitable soap to wash my face pre-shave. Got to wait few days for the skin to heal, though, the razor burn episode still feels as dryness of skin after two full days.

 

[Twelvefret]

I used to have those days myself when later in the day I could see I had not accomplished a good shave. I went back for few days with a DE or SE and realized that if I did pay attention to certain parts I did get any better with those razors. I determined I was holding the straight to a different standard.

Over time I think we figure out what we have to do to get a good shave, or at least I have.

 

[Dzaw]

I think @Twelvefret is right on - I started getting hyper critical of my shave when I started straight shaving. Honest self reflection makes me remember plenty of mediocre at best shaves that were “good enough” before I really started holding my face to a standard that I thought I should be able to keep with the straight.

In so far as the edge, i, too, have been very frustrated with the performance of hyper sharp .1 micron edges. What I am learning is that they don’t seem to hold up well to my steel wool like beard growth. Try the following to see if it helps:

1: re- hone the razor just as you did last time. Start with a bevel setting to be absolutely sure you have the edge proper.

2: Stop after .5 micron. That seems to have been the threshold for keen edge last time for you - and is quite a LOT finer than many natural stones a lot of shavers use as their finish step for a good smooth cutting edge, so it is plenty fine enough!

3: fewer, lighter laps when stropping with the leather. Try twenty or so laps, you may have rolled the delicate fine edge on the leather.

4: Use whatever other razor you are most comfortable with to just knock the worst growth out of the razors way - this initial knockdown pass was suggested to me for a similar problem, and seems to have helped me isolate my own issues. The trick with this pass is to completely not care what the end results of this pass look or feel like - swipe with the grain only, one swipe in any given spot, no re-swiping, and only where nicely lathered up. Then re-lather and shave with a straight as if the knockdown hadn’t happened.

At the end of the day, too, there are several ‘breakpoints’ in technique, where you will be shaving along and have a “Eureka” moment, where some facet of straight shaving that was frustrating will solve itself in how you hold the razor, or how you glide it along, etc. suddenly the frustration that seemed insurmountable yesterday seems silly, and this straight shaving thing looks a lot more reasonable.

It would be a damn shame to give up on the eve of such a breakthrough...

 

[dundak]

One good prep method is one a barber used on me years ago. He used lathering shave cream. He took a healthy amount (almond + sized) and massaged it into my wet face for about a minute. There it sat while he prepped his razor, towels etc. then he worked it in with a damp brush to build a dense lather.

I tried the same at home and it’s a killer way to shave. Key I found is don’t skimp on the cream. You should massage enough in that you could shave brushless. Downside is it’s a little messy and so slick you have to keep your fingers dry at all times to stretch the skin well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[monco]

Thanks for the support, guys, I really appreciate it! I'll try shaving next time with extra focus on prep.

In the meanwhile, I spent almost one full day of my weekend to reset the bevel and hone my Dovo Best Quality, which is certainly not my best razor, but serves as a practise razor for honing. I used the following post as a guideline, as Slash had some advice on what you should expect in respect of HHT during the honing: Lapping film, try it.

My progression was 30, 12, 5, 3, 1, and 0.5u diamond paste on balsa. I first spent almost an hour in 30u with no real progress. Then I realized that my film was worn out. The new sheet gave results almost immediately. Note to self: as worn-out lapping film (at least in the coarse range) seems to have performance close to zero, in the future, 1k Chosera or similar could be an option for a consistent bevel setter. Anyway, I think I succesfully nailed the bevel, since I was able to get a clear HHT-1 off 12u. I also checked cherry tomato test, shaving arm hair, thumb nail test, which all indicated that bevel was set.

I think it was 3u that started improving HHT, and 1u left it to somewhere around HHT-2/HHT-3. The edge was not performing consistently all-around, and frankly HHT has been quite difficult to perform since all my hairs seem so different in consistency and thickness, so I really can't give any precise number. But I can tell that the edge was slowly improving.

Finally, after I stropped on 0.5 micron diamond paste on balsa, I got the edge somewhere shy of perfect HHT-4. Now the HHT result is more consistent, and the edge is performing good along almost the entire length.

I am especially happy that HHT started showing promise right off the 12u film (no stropping or anything), which has never happened before. Interesting to see how this razor shaves.