Razors, and Honing, and Vendors, OH MY!

[ClemsonTigerz]

So. Let’s talk Arkansas stones- chiefly black, translucent, and black translucent. Let’s also talk vendors, price, but most importantly- what you ACTUALLY get at these prices.

so- my knowledge is VERY limited, I’ll say that at the jump-

I have explored Dan’s & NW Co. for their variety, prices, etc. I hear nothing but praises about both shops. As I’m exploring, I can immediately tell the difference in price points. I will list current as of today, the prices for various stones then discuss them:

Dan’s:

Translucent
8x3x1: $385.26

Black
8x3x1: 303.04

Natural Whetstone Company:

Translucent
8x3x3/4-1: $219.95

Black
8x3x3/4-1: $65.95

Black Translucent
8x3x3/4-1: $197.00

So: $165.31 difference between the translucent stones- Dan’s being more expensive. $237.09 difference between the blacks. $106.04 difference between Dan’s black and NWC Black translucent.

So- that’s WHAT I know-

so are the stones that Dan’s carries more dense? Are all of his blacks translucent “who’s yer daddy” awesome stones? Are NWC black stones lesser density than Dan’s?

The price differences are making me ask these questions and I’m wondering if I order a 8x3x1 from both dans and NEC, would i be essentially getting the same density with negligible marginally minuscule differences? Both are lauded businesses- and both businesses stand by their product and these stones are the “bees knees” as they say- I could pay $482.90 for a translucent, black, and black translucent from NWC- I’d have three quality stones. But if I order from dans, I could pay $688.30 for two stones- of the same quality as NWC? Therein lies my assumption and wonder.

I’m not ka-ka’ing either business-Im aware Dan’s has a reputation for being higher in price- with friendly staff and great reputation- but I’m wondering, pound for pound, if the quality is the same- NASA would say I’d save money and rocket fuel patronizing one and not the other.

What am I missing? One is in Arkansas and the other in Tennessee- but one has Dixie land prices and the other has Beverly Hills prices.... I’m trying to figure out what you’re getting- is it the dans box? I don’t get it-

 

[Jayber Crow]

For razors I would stick with the NW black translucent or any of Dan's true hard varieties, i.e black,trans or "true hard".
I wouldn't recommend the NW black, mine took a ton of work to get flat and I don't think it is a finisher.

I have all the stones you mention from both vendors not in the 8 x 3 though mine are all 8 x 2x 1/2.

In my experience and has been noted elsewhere on the forum Dan's stones will most likely require less work if any to lap and get ready for honing, and therefore probably worth the slight premium you will pay for them.

P.S. The boxes are about the same quality.

 

[duke762]

I've been dealing with HAD, SAD, and RAD on the cheap. Used hones, used strops and used razors. I do have 2 Arks that my wife bought me new and they started the whole straight razor madness. A Norton 8x3x.5 Black and a matching 8x3x.5 Trans. All my others came from the Bay. That was a few years back, about the time I joined here (with no intentions of ever straight shaving).

I don't mind wrestling an out of whack stone, razor or strop. Most of my Black/Trans are used Nortons. My top 4 best stones cost less than 500 total. Yes, would like to have a Dan's out of curiosity but can't justify the cost. My cheapest stone is a Hall's Black 10x2x1 that I have 25 bucks in. I'm not seasoned enough to tell the difference between it and my best Nortons. Maybe a slightly better results from the Nortons. For me, myself, I'll go with a used Norton anytime.

For the out of pocket you mention, I've got 4 truly stellar hones with money left over for booze, a Coticule and maybe another used shell strop.

Oh...one other thing. When I first started honing 8x3 felt comforting, before too long the 2" wide stones became my preference. You can save a little money right there. If you don't mind fooling around lapping etc. I'd go for price.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Where did you get a halls black 10x2 for 25$? Lucky ebay snag?

 

[duke762]

Yup. BIN. A stopped clock is right twice a day. I do better gambling on the bay than the casino.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Those are always fun. Check the bay at just the right second, get a 7x2" Norton Translucent for $50 or a 7x1.5" Escher for $30.

Doesn't happen often, but boy does it feel good.

 

[SliceOfLife]

And immediately after posting that I checked ebay and got a Labeled 6x2" LWW BIN for $60.

 

[HVenture138]

I just bought my first Ark (black) that should arrive in a few days (hurry up and get here Tuesday!) so I don’t have first hand knowledge. But the consensus seems to be that Dans stones arrive FLAT, and with so hard a stone, that matters. Though I have no clue as to how NW’s stones arrive.

Ive heard it said - and I’d like to hear what experienced Ark users think - that the functional difference between a black and a translucent is negligible.
The price disparity is allegedly about nothing more than supply and demand. After all, a translucent rock is almost unbelievable.

FYI - last week when I ordered mine there was a 10% discount on orders over $50, I think it was, so there is that.

 

[SliceOfLife]

And just now got a 6" Coticule in a barber's lot with a bunch of junk I don't need (Mug, Shaving stick tin, EverReady 100 brush, Hair trimmers, etc) for $35 BIN.

Not the steal of a lifetime, but a darn good deal.

Watching eBay pays off. There is a secondary reason to do it too... a lot of eBayers will find items with high value listed and send the seller lowball BIN offers that look good before anyone bids (Say a seller lists a labeled 10" Escher as an Old oilstone... Guys will send him a $50-100 BIN... knowing he doesn't know it's a $500+ stone). This happened so much that eBay actually ADDED a feature to make it easier to do...(which is irritating as hell as a seller and eBay CONSTANTLY re-enables*) so you need to be there to throw a bid at it or send an offer of your own to keep from missing out on it.

*I could rant for hours about the "offer" option on auctions they've added. Nothing like listing a $300 stone with a $99 Starting bid and getting your email spammed with dozens of $10-30 offers from idiots wasting your time... EVERY SINGLE LISTING.

And then you have to turn every single offer down before eBay lets you disable it... for that listing... you can't disable it across all your listings... and then they sneakily re-enable it EVERY TIME YOU LIST.

Honestly, it's like eBay wants to drive every non-commercial seller off the site and just be a really crummy version of Amazon.

 

[Rosseforp]

I just got a quote from Dan's for 3 stones. This is part of the response that I received from them, and I do believe clears up a lot of misconceptions about the differences in finishing stones---------------->


"If you would like to achieve a razor sharp edge on your blades, then the next step will be the Black Arkansas stone. The Black Arkansas (ultra fine) is the finest stone that we manufacture. It can be finer than the Translucent Arkansas stone. It has a very glassy feel to the stone. This stone will help you to achieve a keen razor sharp edge on your blades. The grit of this stone is around 1,200+

True Hard Arkansas (extra fine) is also known as Colored Translucent. This stone can have some Translucent coloration with either black or white streaking or some color variation in the stone. It is still similar to the Translucent and can be slightly coarser than the Black Arkansas stone. It will also help you to achieve an keen sharp edge on your blades. The grit of the True Hard Arkansas run 1,200+.

The Translucent Arkansas (extra fine) stone will also help to achieve an razor sharp edge. The Translucent Arkansas can be slightly coarser than the Black Arkansas. It can be a uniform light grey to a darker grey color stone. It is smooth to the touch. The grit of the Translucent runs 1,200+ – In comparison to the True Hard Arkansas – The Translucent Arkansas is higher priced because it is a more labor intensive product to come up with in the sizes of stones that we manufacture. We encounter more natural variations that makes it difficult to come up with the our products.
If you are interested in a product that offer a variety of stone grades within one products we have something that would work for you................

The Translucent Arkansas, True Hard Arkansas and Black Arkansas stones will help to you achieve a very sharp razor edge on your blades..........................."



8 x 2 x 1/2 Translucent(extra fine) $130.72

8 x 2 x 1/2 Hard(fine) $36.95

8 x 2 x 1/2 Soft(medium) $29.51

With the 10% discount that comes to $177.48 for 3 stones.

 

[global_dev]

Thats a translucent? What size

 

[SliceOfLife]

Dan's used to sell pink stones like that as seconds for dirt cheap... I would buy them in 6x2x.5" for ~$25 and flip them to international buyers for a ~100% profit instantly... now they're actually quite desirable, so I think they sell them as translucents. I've seen one or two really nice looking pink translucent primitive cuts on here.

 

[Bowmaker]

There is Arkansas Oil Stones also, this is not the old Arkansas Oil Stone Co.

Featured Products

Natural Arkansas Oilstones and Arkansas Whetstones for fine sharpening of knives

www.arkansasoilstone.com

 

[Rosseforp]

My story is I emailed several of the companies currently selling arkansas stones asking for advice on selection of stones for straight razor honing. I specifically mentioned that I was a hobbyist and mentioned B&B as the reason for my inquiry. I used the phrase "I have fallen down the straight razor rabbit hole and need advice".

Kim Kirschman from Dan's was the first to respond, and gave the most detailed advice. After deciding on 3 stones, one of which is a translucent, Kim emailed me what I wanted to hear.

"I have gone over and confirmed with my production manager that we should be able to come up with all these grades of stones for your order. We will select some nice stones for your order. The only grade that I was concerned about having for the order was the Translucent Arkansas stone. We have a large back order for other customers for this specific stone. But my production manager says that our cutting department is coming up with some of these stones and we should be able to get one finished for the order. We will also need to be working on the right equipment to finish these stones. We should be able to come up with the stones for this order possibly by the end of next week to the first of the following week."

That is what I call Customer Service.

I'll post pics when they show up!