Razorock DE1

[Double_Edgez]

I often find myself using pressure to compensate and thus get irritation, and when I use proper technique I have to go 4 or 5 passes to get a close shave

It can be difficult to keep the angle consistent throughout the shave, finding the angle may seem easy but to maintain that angle throughout the shave & all over the unequal contours of our faces can be a long learning curve especially using milder razors, experience will get you there.

Changing angle from steep to shallow & keeping that angle locked, might help a little with efficiency but not alot this razor is just made this way, its how you do the strokes & your technique that can get you a smooth shave, getting to know your skin & the direction the beard grows overtime will help, knowing what kinda strokes/passes implemented with techniques work for you, e.g for my 2nd pass i attack the hair across the grain from a direction that is just a tiny touch past across but between against the grain so it eliminates more, hit from different angles, knowing your face & what works & what doesn't overtime will make everything easier with any razor you use.

Some razors I can't get a BBS with they're too mild like the Wilkinson sword classic, the blade doesn't make contact with my skin enough, I need unscrew the head a little to make it more efficient (which is dangerous) but with this razorock DE1 being mild its head profile design I can utilise it & make it work, and shave very quickly.

Some razors just don't work for some people, there is a lot of variables apart from the razor itself, the blade you use, shaving cream or soap, length of beard, I say do what works for you & what is comfortable & joyful.

 

[rabidus]

I'm glad you guys like the DE1. So far my experience is the opposite. Still being pretty new to DE shaving (a bit over 3 months) I'm not sure if I'll hold on to it in case my preferences change, or if I'll be selling it or sending it off in a PIF.

I bought a DE1 along with an order of other things from Italian Barber. My plan was to use it as a travel razor since it was so cheap (no problem if lost, broken or stolen), but of course I would use it periodically in my rotation.

With the stock handle I absolutely hate it. I find that it is not only mild but it is also quite inefficient. It just doesn't cut well. After 3 passes and buffing/touch up I might look clean shaven but I (and anyone else who touches my face) can feel quite a bit of stubble. If I just do 3 passes without the buffing, I can still see some stubble (equivalent to a few hours growth) and after just a few hours it looks like a 5 o'clock shadow. I often find myself using pressure to compensate and thus get irritation, and when I use proper technique I have to go 4 or 5 passes to get a close shave, but then, even with the quite mild razor, my sensitive skin and so many passes means guaranteed irritation.

With the RazoRock Barber Pole handle it is a little better. Still not great, but substantially improved. But, when you add the $15 handle to the $7 razor you are at $22, about what my short handled EJ DES89L cost and more than the terrific RazoRock OLD Type OC or Mission. Heck, a nice genuine Gillette Tech runs about the same as the other RR options through about what a EJ or Merkur would run and would be far superior to the DE1 and possibly less money than a DE1 and replacement handle.

Sure it is inexpensive, but I prefer the $15 RR OLD Type OC. It is one of my favorite razors, quite efficient and smooth (and forgiving enough to be good for beginners). At $15 I'd also go with the RR Mission. Sure, proportionally it seems like a large price difference (more than double the price) but in absolute terms, $8 isn't a lot more to spend when the trade-off is a huge increase in performance. Add the better handle (which makes it barely acceptable IMO) and it is $7 more than the better RR options and about the same as my short handled EJ (and the cheaper Merkurs). It may not be terrible, especially for a starter/travel razor, but you can simply get a much better razor without too large a price increase.



I have the same kind of beard, heavy and course whiskers along with sensitive skin, but the opposite experience with mild v. aggressive razors. While I can get a comfortable shave with a more mild razor, if I go for a close shave I am more likely (though far from guaranteed) to get irritation than with most more aggressive razors. I think it is because I can get as close a shave with my Schone or Fatip in 2 passes that I get with 3 passes from my Edwin Jaggers (yes that is plural, two plus a clone, so obviously I like my EJs) or Merkur 38. If I want a near BBS I can do it with 3 passes and minor touch up with my Schone or Fatip, while my more mild razors may need 3 passes plus serious buffing or even 4 passes and some touch up. With the DE1 I would need an absurd number of passes to get near the same result as my Fatip or Schone. The greater number of passes increases the chances that my sensitive skin will get angry.

What blade do you use with the DE1?

Hold on to the DE1, your technique may progress to a point where you may find it to be better than you do now!

 

[Slapo]

I'm glad you guys like the DE1. So far my experience is the opposite. Still being pretty new to DE shaving (a bit over 3 months) I'm not sure if I'll hold on to it in case my preferences change, or if I'll be selling it or sending it off in a PIF.

I bought a DE1 along with an order of other things from Italian Barber. My plan was to use it as a travel razor since it was so cheap (no problem if lost, broken or stolen), but of course I would use it periodically in my rotation.

With the stock handle I absolutely hate it. I find that it is not only mild but it is also quite inefficient. It just doesn't cut well. After 3 passes and buffing/touch up I might look clean shaven but I (and anyone else who touches my face) can feel quite a bit of stubble. If I just do 3 passes without the buffing, I can still see some stubble (equivalent to a few hours growth) and after just a few hours it looks like a 5 o'clock shadow. I often find myself using pressure to compensate and thus get irritation, and when I use proper technique I have to go 4 or 5 passes to get a close shave, but then, even with the quite mild razor, my sensitive skin and so many passes means guaranteed irritation.

With the RazoRock Barber Pole handle it is a little better. Still not great, but substantially improved. But, when you add the $15 handle to the $7 razor you are at $22, about what my short handled EJ DES89L cost and more than the terrific RazoRock OLD Type OC or Mission. Heck, a nice genuine Gillette Tech runs about the same as the other RR options through about what a EJ or Merkur would run and would be far superior to the DE1 and possibly less money than a DE1 and replacement handle.

Sure it is inexpensive, but I prefer the $15 RR OLD Type OC. It is one of my favorite razors, quite efficient and smooth (and forgiving enough to be good for beginners). At $15 I'd also go with the RR Mission. Sure, proportionally it seems like a large price difference (more than double the price) but in absolute terms, $8 isn't a lot more to spend when the trade-off is a huge increase in performance. Add the better handle (which makes it barely acceptable IMO) and it is $7 more than the better RR options and about the same as my short handled EJ (and the cheaper Merkurs). It may not be terrible, especially for a starter/travel razor, but you can simply get a much better razor without too large a price increase.



I have the same kind of beard, heavy and course whiskers along with sensitive skin, but the opposite experience with mild v. aggressive razors. While I can get a comfortable shave with a more mild razor, if I go for a close shave I am more likely (though far from guaranteed) to get irritation than with most more aggressive razors. I think it is because I can get as close a shave with my Schone or Fatip in 2 passes that I get with 3 passes from my Edwin Jaggers (yes that is plural, two plus a clone, so obviously I like my EJs) or Merkur 38. If I want a near BBS I can do it with 3 passes and minor touch up with my Schone or Fatip, while my more mild razors may need 3 passes plus serious buffing or even 4 passes and some touch up. With the DE1 I would need an absurd number of passes to get near the same result as my Fatip or Schone. The greater number of passes increases the chances that my sensitive skin will get angry.

I'm fairly new (since August 2016) to wet shaving myself and have built a bit of a collection since I started. My facial hair is tough, skin like sensitive to certain compounds and physical irritation like a lobster is to water quality. Usually, unless I get a BBS, my stubble is like sandpaper the next day. If I run my chin over the skin on my forearm, I can see small scratch marks - nothing terrible, of course, but enough to make the skin a little more sensitive on that spot.
I started with a Weishi 9306FL. I got good shaves pretty much right out of the box, but then, I have only been using the razor, a blade and water. After a month or two, it seemed to me that perhaps using soaps wasn't too bad an idea, although I thought it would likely be a bit of a journey to find one that wouldn't irritate my skin more than a razor blade itself would, and it turned out to be true. The trouble was, with cushioning soap provided, the Weishi didn't seem to be as efficient anymore.
I thought some more aggressive razors would help, so I got some. Then I got some more. And while I had been able to get great shaves from most of them, except for the Wilkinson Sword Classic and a bunch which had as little or less blade exposure or their build quality was too poor, my neck remained troublesome until maybe a month or two ago.
The reason was that the skin on my neck is a bit thin, sensitive, the area where hair grows is a bit bumpy, the hair grows upwards and curls. Going with the grain or across the grain would be OK, no irritation or nicks, but not a very close shave, even with a good stretch of the skin. Against the grain would give me a BBS, but the redness I'd get made me avoid it, until I got quite stubborn and decided and there just has to be a way.

Here's what improved my shaves the most recently and even made mild razors work for me much better than they did before:
- use a plain soap bar to wash the face before applying any pre-shaving or shaving products. It needs to be something without tetrasodium EDTA... pretty much a plain soap (oil/fat + NaOH + water) works best - any extras tend to irritate my skin, including most essential oils (depends on the oil and amount, though). It seems to soften whiskers a lot. I rub the soap on wet whiskers, suds it up well and rinse.
- astringent as a pre-shave: alcohol based or alum block (haven't tried witch hazel) - I only use alum before using the most aggressive razors in my den, but an alcohol based one I feel helps to ensure the skin is tighter and sanitised before a shave.
- riding the top cap, after the curly hair has been reduced by using the comb to do its thing against the grain - prep the hairs to be mowed down
- tilt the head to the side a little or so small diagonal slides
- if the head holds the blade rigidly enough, going against the grain on the first pass yields less irritation
- when I have trouble finding the right angle with a razor, I use a shaving oil instead of a soap/cream - allows me to see what I'm doing much better, plus it doesn't dry the skin the way soaps do. I haven't tried shea butter for this, but I'm planning to.

Additionally, I don't lift the razor off my face unless I need to go to a starting point of the direction I'm shaving in. Helps keep the angle consistent. The strokes are short with a little bit of buff before the next stroke (a couple of millimetres back before going forward by 1-3 cm, usually 1-1.5).

I concur with what Double_Edgez and rabidus said as well, thought.
Mild razors are generally really angle sensitive, which is where riding the top cap comes through for me.

Keep the razor and maybe try it again after a few weeks for a week to see if anything changed.

If it still doesn't work for you after a few more tries, perhaps it's really not one for you, but I found it worthwhile to keep trying, as most came through for me.

As for the DE1 handle - how do you grip it?
My hands aren't terribly big, just about what you'd expect on a guy who's about 6 feet tall.
I put my pinky underneath and hold it by the side mostly with my middle and index fingers opposite my thumb and it feel quite secure this way.

 

[Slapo]

Darn it, my posts are getting longer and longer...
Anyways, I gave the bit of history so you could see where I'm coming from and maybe it'll help a bit too.

 

[rabidus]

No fear from the Feather blade... Used one for my face shave in the DE1 today. Seem to be a slight increase in efficiency, nothing to sneeze at though. Another smooth comfortable BBS shave.

For my head shave, I used the same Polsilver I used yesterday. I turned up the aggression on the DE1...well...I shimmed it on time. There was a noticeable difference to sneeze at with the increase. Efficiency was up, almost on par with my postwar Tech. The razor stayed incredibly smooth.

Shimming allows you to fine tune a razor if you should desire, like an adjustable.

For $10 you have a mild, smooth, efficient razor. For the cost of one or two used blades, which is nothing, you can increase the efficiency to your liking without the smoothness of the razor.

 

[rabidus]

As for the DE1 handle - how do you grip it?
My hands aren't terribly big, just about what you'd expect on a guy who's about 6 feet tall.
I put my pinky underneath and hold it by the side mostly with my middle and index fingers opposite my thumb and it feel quite secure this way.

Depends on the direction of my stroke.

I typically have my thumb one side with my other fingers on the other side gripping the razor close to the head. When I go south to north below my jawline, the back of my ring finger is on the same side as my thumb to assist in rotating the razor as my neck contours. When I come from left to center, I'm holding the handle like a pen with the head of the razor as the pen point.

Shaving my head, some stroked are held allot like a pen with the handle supported in the palm of my hand. If the handle is more than 3 inches, then handle extends out of my hand like a pen.

 

[Double_Edgez]

No fear from the Feather blade...

Feathers work great was the first blade i used in this razor gives it a lil boost, but Kai blades are my favorite to use in the DE1 because they are a little more stiffer then all other blades (not sure if they are thicker but they are evidently stiffer) they perform amazing in razors that hold blades so rigid, especially milder razors not so much aggressive ones, exception for the merkur futur on high settings i find the blade chatters (flexing) with my tough beard but with a kai it holds it much more rigid equating to a smoother shave with cleaner strokes.

 

[ZigZiglar]

My sentiments exactly. This is a fantastic tribute to the Gillette Tech with minor upgrades. This actually became my girlfriend's razor head (because of the closed tabs). She loves it! I have too many razors (several Techs) to keep it in my rotation but a fine razor indeed.

The DE1 (and the original Baili) definitely falls into the under rated category. Coming in at less than $10 folks overlook it because it is a "cheap razor", but those that got it (including me) are surprised at how mild and yet efficient the razor is. It does the Tech better by enclosing the blade ends and having wider head to put on your face. I originally bought the RR Teck II, which had the same head, and ditched the handle and it is now squarely in my rotation. Haven't gotten around to head shaving yet, nature and genetics are already doing it for me real fast.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Feathers work great was the first blade i used in this razor gives it a lil boost, but Kai blades are my favorite to use in the DE1 because they are a little more stiffer then all other blades (not sure if they are thicker but they are evidently stiffer) they perform amazing in razors that hold blades so rigid, especially milder razors not so much aggressive ones, exception for the merkur futur on high settings i find the blade chatters (flexing) with my tough beard but with a kai it holds it much more rigid equating to a smoother shave with cleaner strokes.

Kai blades aren't extra thick, and they aren't the thickest of blades, but they are on the thicker side. With the elastic modulus being fairly consistent across different steels, Kai blades shouldn't feel any stiffer than other 0.1 mm thick blades. However, Kai blades will probably feel more efficient because they have EXTRA WIDTH. Out of all of the blades that I've measured so far, Kai blades are the widest. This translates to more blade exposure and more efficiency, and more aggressiveness, too, as far as I'm concerned and based on my experience with them. Kai blades are a great option for increasing efficiency, and they are sharp blades. They are one of my favorites for these reasons. Actually, I'd say that, as of this moment, Kai blades are my favorite.

 

[Double_Edgez]

Kai blades aren't extra thick, and they aren't the thickest of blades, but they are on the thicker side. With the elastic modulus being fairly consistent across different steels, Kai blades shouldn't feel any stiffer than other 0.1 mm thick blades. However, Kai blades will probably feel more efficient because they have EXTRA WIDTH. Out of all of the blades that I've measured so far, Kai blades are the widest. This translates to more blade exposure and more efficiency, and more aggressiveness, too, as far as I'm concerned and based on my experience with them. Kai blades are a great option for increasing efficiency, and they are sharp blades. They are one of my favorites for these reasons. Actually, I'd say that, as of this moment, Kai blades are my favorite.

Thanks for the information that makes sense, they are my favourite blades for years now, found this information on them a while back.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Thanks for the information that makes sense, they are my favourite blades for years now, found this information on them a while back.
View attachment 784010

Thanks for passing that along. The myth that Kai blades are extra thick keeps on going because no one has busted it, until now. I have busted it and will be publishing my accurate measurements soon. I'll let you guys know about it when it happens. It is true that Kai blades are "constructed of slightly thicker gauge steel" RELATIVE TO THE AVERAGE, BUT NOT RELATIVE TO ALL OTHER BLADES. Kai blades have an average thickness of 0.100 mm. This average was established based on measurements of 16 Kai blade samples, properly cleaned and measured with a calibrated digital micrometer, following the measuring methodology that I wrote about. (Forgive me for not providing a link.) There are other blades that are as thick or thicker. For example, Personna blades are 0.101 mm thick on average, at least for the smaller set of blade samples that I've measured for them. Regarding the "very well polished cutting edge", I'd say that that is true. Kai blades seem to me to be one of the sharpest blades around, and by our user ratings, they are the sharpest in the limited data set at 9.6 out of 10 on sharpness. (Feather and others aren't in there yet.) About the "metal structure" being "different", maybe that is true for Kai blades, but I don't think so because the boxes say "stainless steel" and the average blade mass of 0.564 g is consistent with the blade thickness and width. I don't think that Kai blades are any denser than other stainless steel blades, that is. I hope that this helps clear up the myths that keep spreading about Kai blades.

 

[rabidus]

Thanks for the information that makes sense, they are my favourite blades for years now, found this information on them a while back.
View attachment 784010

Thanks for passing that along. The myth that Kai blades are extra thick keeps on going because no one has busted it, until now. I have busted it and will be publishing my accurate measurements soon. I'll let you guys know about it when it happens. It is true that Kai blades are "constructed of slightly thicker gauge steel" RELATIVE TO THE AVERAGE, BUT NOT RELATIVE TO ALL OTHER BLADES. Kai blades have an average thickness of 0.100 mm. This average was established based on measurements of 16 Kai blade samples, properly cleaned and measured with a calibrated digital micrometer, following the measuring methodology that I wrote about. (Forgive me for not providing a link.) There are other blades that are as thick or thicker. For example, Personna blades are 0.101 mm thick on average, at least for the smaller set of blade samples that I've measured for them. Regarding the "very well polished cutting edge", I'd say that that is true. Kai blades seem to me to be one of the sharpest blades around, and by our user ratings, they are the sharpest in the limited data set at 9.6 out of 10 on sharpness. (Feather and others aren't in there yet.) About the "metal structure" being "different", maybe that is true for Kai blades, but I don't think so because the boxes say "stainless steel" and the average blade mass of 0.564 g is consistent with the blade thickness and width. I don't think that Kai blades are any denser than other stainless steel blades, that is. I hope that this helps clear up the myths that keep spreading about Kai blades.

I've never tried Kai DE blades, but I like the Kai Titan mild AC blades better than the Feather Pro and Pro Super AC blades. They feel sharper and smoother to me.


This is from Kai's website.

Manufacturing processes (RAZOR) | KAI FACTORY | KAI Group

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I've never tried Kai DE blades, but I like the Kai Titan mild AC blades better than the Feather Pro and Pro Super AC blades. They feel sharper and smoother to me.


This is from Kai's website.

View attachment 784021

Manufacturing processes (RAZOR) | KAI FACTORY | KAI Group

Thanks. As confirmed by e-mail and noted in the Kai's ShaveWiki page, the Kai DE blades are coated with chrome and Teflon (link).

 

[Double_Edgez]

Thanks for passing that along. The myth that Kai blades are extra thick keeps on going because no one has busted it, until now. I have busted it and will be publishing my accurate measurements soon. I'll let you guys know about it when it happens. It is true that Kai blades are "constructed of slightly thicker gauge steel" RELATIVE TO THE AVERAGE, BUT NOT RELATIVE TO ALL OTHER BLADES. Kai blades have an average thickness of 0.100 mm. This average was established based on measurements of 16 Kai blade samples, properly cleaned and measured with a calibrated digital micrometer, following the measuring methodology that I wrote about. (Forgive me for not providing a link.) There are other blades that are as thick or thicker. For example, Personna blades are 0.101 mm thick on average, at least for the smaller set of blade samples that I've measured for them. Regarding the "very well polished cutting edge", I'd say that that is true. Kai blades seem to me to be one of the sharpest blades around, and by our user ratings, they are the sharpest in the limited data set at 9.6 out of 10 on sharpness. (Feather and others aren't in there yet.) About the "metal structure" being "different", maybe that is true for Kai blades, but I don't think so because the boxes say "stainless steel" and the average blade mass of 0.564 g is consistent with the blade thickness and width. I don't think that Kai blades are any denser than other stainless steel blades, that is. I hope that this helps clear up the myths that keep spreading about Kai blades.

Thanks great depth of information, only con is i wish they was cheaper & more easliy accessible.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

Thanks great depth of information, only con is i wish they was cheaper & more easliy accessible.

Ditto. They are expensive. However, you can get 100 blades for $35.99 right now at the big online place.

 

[rabidus]

Ditto. They are expensive. However, you can get 100 blades for $35.99 right now at the big online place.

I believe he's in England...

 

[Double_Edgez]

Ditto. They are expensive. However, you can get 100 blades for $35.99 right now at the big online place.

I got about 200 of them for now. Got them last year had a friend who went Japan for work purposes bring me them back, i gave him £25 for them they probably cost more then that but he was admant in not taking any more. I remember i use to pay alot in the previous years.

I been consistently shaving with them for over 8 years they are made for my face tick all the boxes barring cost.

 

[ShavingByTheNumbers]

I got about 200 of them for now. Got them last year had a friend who went Japan for work purposes bring me them back, i gave him £25 for them they probably cost more then that but he was admant in not taking any more. I remember i use to pay alot in the previous years.

I been consistently shaving with them for over 8 years they are made for my face tick all the boxes barring cost.

Cool. Good friend. Yeah, Kai is great except for the price. Also, because of its large width, it might work better for each individual in certain razors than others. That goes for all blades, but the combination of razor and blade is kind of unique for the Kai blade with its average width of 22.18 mm. The Kai blade provides over 0.1 mm more width per side than the average blade. With a nominal blade angle of 30 degrees, this translates to roughly over 0.05 mm more blade exposure per side than the average blade. That might not sound like much, but it can be very significant for blade performance in a particular razor.

 

[Double_Edgez]

Kai blade with its average width of 22.18 mm. The Kai blade provides over 0.1 mm more width per side than the average blade. With a nominal blade angle of 30 degrees, this translates to roughly over 0.05 mm more blade exposure per side than the average blade.

That makes perfect sense, now i know why they work so well for me in my milder techs & this Razorock DE1, i have loads of variants of techs a fatip piccolo & gentile, merkur futur, R41 & probably 3 other vintage DE's so im use to using the same razors & lucky they all fair well with the kai, i do shave with other blades but find myself going back to what i know works best for me.

 

[Double_Edgez]

I believe he's in England...

I can send you some next week or so when im back home currently in a another city working, you can test them without paying for them incase they don't work for you.