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razorock black hawk plate to top cap alignment

browsing over the Italian Barber site the other day and noticed that the stainless Mamba razor was available. I put it on my cart and decided to also get the Black Hawk as it is priced very attractively. I already own a General SS that I like a lot. With the General I can get excellent very smooth one pass shaves and two pass BSS every time. I can get the one pass to be similar to a R41 one pass shave.

I received my package and decided to put a Super blade on it, did a few strokes and quit, finished with the very mild Mamba. After the shave I put my glasses on and inspected the blade exposure of the Super and there was a lot of it just by the added lengh of the blade. But I also noticed that the blade was only touching the bottom plate on the blades back edge, essentially angling the base down and creating a wide gap.

Today I put in a pro guard blade and noticed that the plate still touches the blade at the back edge, not as bad as the Super, I think the Super is thicker. I shaved with it and it was much better, had to keep a very shallow angle. Did get a BSS in two passes but was nowhere near as smooth as the General SS.

After the shave I looked at the cap/base aligment in more detail and noticed that the alignment is perfect without a blade, no gaps between he top and base. I did some scans to show the aligment. I also made a shim out of a DE blade to fill up the back of the base, it makes a difference (have not shaved with it yet). I have a hunch that if the back of the base or the top cap have a bit more meat, say the thickness of the standard professional blade that the razor would be smoother as the whole blade would be supported.

Now, for the price of the Black Hawk I think the lack of alignment it is perfectly acceptable.

On the pictures below, the white on the second picture is a piece of regular thickness printer paper. Notice that even with a shim the thickness of a DE blade the proguard is still not supported completely by the base.

razorock black hawk.jpg
 
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Thank you for your analysis and efforts. I have the Black Hawk V2 and have only used a Schick Proline in it. I find the razor very smooth and effective, but for me it has a narrow effective angle, i.e., less blade exposure. By alignment issue, I think I understand you to mean the position of the blade within the sandwiched plates, not the alignment of top with bottom per se.

I look forward to hearing how the shimmed razor shaves, and if it is a success, I hope you’ll share a photo of the shim.
 
I added a second shim and with two the pro guard the blade is fully touching the base and the top cap. The shim is just the same as the shims I use for DE, cut both sides with a scissor.

Shaved this morning and for me it made a huge difference. Shave was very smooth and I did not have to force a very shallow angle (riding the cap), it was a lot more natural. Two pass BSS. First shave with the shims but felt more like the General SS. Only very few razors give me a two pass BSS. Now, the two pass is with the technique similar to one used on R41. Stretching and multiple short and overlapping (quick) passes. First pass WTG and second pass XTG.



hawk shimmed 1.jpg hawk shimmed 3.jpg hawk shimmed 2.jpg
 
I have a hunch that for a non guard or non pro super blade that one shim should do. On average a DE blade is .10mm. That is almost the difference between the guarded blade thickness and the standard pro blade.


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Wow that is crazy.
You should not have to do that to get a great shave.
Glad you took the time to play with it.
I too wonder how it will do with a Proline P-30 blade and shim.
I just got one on the way and should be here any day.
I don't think I will have the time to check it out before leaving for Perth on Saturday.
I just figured it was going to be a good razor out of the box.
If shimming it makes it a great two pass BBS razor with the Prolines then I guess that's what I will have to do.
I won't be able to send it back.
 
I think the proline is the same thickness as the feather pro. One shim provides full contact of the base.
The first picture is without the shim, and with one of the DE shims inserted into the gap. Second one is with just one shim and it is gapless.

It is very possible that not all the V2 behave like mine. Maybe mine is missing the removal of the last CNC layer above the blade on the top cap. Notice there is a visible step down on the flat area that touches the blade top. I have to shave with the regular feather pro without the shim, eventhough it has a gap, it does have more support than the pro guard or the super and it may be plenty smooth as is. Still a very good buy.

IMG_0622.JPG IMG_0623.JPG
 
The razor is in no way defective without a shim. I use a Proline in it—the blade is held rigidly and the Black Hawk 2 gives me a consistently-good shave. That being said, if shimming the razor steps up the aggression a bit, I’m intrigued.
 
Shimming it does not make it more agressive, to the contrary, makes milder as it lifts the leading edge of the guard bar.
 
I think the proline is the same thickness as the feather pro. One shim provides full contact of the base.
The first picture is without the shim, and with one of the DE shims inserted into the gap. Second one is with just one shim and it is gapless.

It is very possible that not all the V2 behave like mine. Maybe mine is missing the removal of the last CNC layer above the blade on the top cap. Notice there is a visible step down on the flat area that touches the blade top. I have to shave with the regular feather pro without the shim, eventhough it has a gap, it does have more support than the pro guard or the super and it may be plenty smooth as is. Still a very good buy.

View attachment 856709 View attachment 856710

My Hawk doesn't look like the side profile of yours, as the cap fits to the base plate with no gap & it holds a blade perfectly. You have found a workaround for your Hawk's issues, but if I was in you position, I would have returned the razor to the vendor you purchased it from for an exchange.

It is admirable that you have made your razor work for you with the use of a shim, but personally I would much sooner be able to use the Hawk as it was designed to be used. I'm not sure that a defective Hawk with a shim will shave quite the same as a Hawk with no defects & no shims.
 
My Hawk doesn't look like the side profile of yours, as the cap fits to the base plate with no gap & it holds a blade perfectly. You have found a workaround for your Hawk's issues, but if I was in you position, I would have returned the razor to the vendor you purchased it from for an exchange.

It is admirable that you have made your razor work for you with the use of a shim, but personally I would much sooner be able to use the Hawk as it was designed to be used. I'm not sure that a defective Hawk with a shim will shave quite the same as a Hawk with no defects & no shims.

Thanks for the input. My hawk is brand new and i have not seen any reports or detailed side view pictures with the blade in place. Thought it was normal for the low price. I purchased directly from Italian Barber, will ask them.



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At the price point for the Hawk, I wasn't expecting much either, but I was very pleasantly surprised by its quality. Maybe I just got lucky with mine, but I have not seen any other postings about issues with the fit & finish of the Hawk v2. In my opinion, the only SE that is better value for money than the Hawk, is the Stainless Steel General, when compared to the cost of other stainless steel SEs on the market.
 
Did contact Italian Barber and they said it was within their tolerances, 6 thousands of an inch. That is .15mm. I had to put a .10mm DE blade to adjust for a feather pro so that is within the tolerance.

I did test the feather pro with and without the shim and with the shim it is way too mild, the two pass yielded a DFS-. Without the shim is was a bit better but still only got a DFS. As a reference I get a closer DFS+ single shave pass with the R41.

The feather pro had aprox 4 shaves on it, i'd like to think that it is still sharp and it is not the one for the hawk. The Pro Guard with the shim did really well. I am going to try the Super wih two shims and give it a go. Without a shim it was too much.

The stainless steel general seems like a better value, however it is not perfect. There is play front to back play between the top and the base that I use to my advantage. I tighten the handle with the base towards the back, giving me the most blade exposure possible relative to the edge of the guard.
 
The stainless steel general seems like a better value, however it is not perfect. There is play front to back play between the top and the base that I use to my advantage. I tighten the handle with the base towards the back, giving me the most blade exposure possible relative to the edge of the guard.

I've not noticed any play in my General, but I will take a look tonight. I just pop a blade in & screw the 3 pieces together & I don't remember having a more, or less aggressive shave from the General.
 
I am using the RR Black Hawk V2 and used this razor today after reading this post. I found the gap between the base place and the blade edge to be perfect and it gives feedback when shaving. I use the Kai Captain mild pink blade which i read on many threads is better suited for the Hawk than any feather blade.
 
I used the RR Black Hawk V2 today, as well, but didn’t even look at the head—I’m still using the first blade I loaded when I got the razor (Proline), and haven’t since opened it. My The shave was very good, as usual.
 
Today tried again with the Pro Super blade but this time using two shims, the difference was night and day. By using the shims it went from very aggressive to just right. Did achieve an excellent two pass BSS. So far best shaves are from the Super and the Guard blades, both shimmed. Will try Kai Pink Mild next

Good to hear that others do not have the same issue. Possibly I got an ugly duckling. Still OK with me.
 
browsing over the Italian Barber site the other day and noticed that the stainless Mamba razor was available. I put it on my cart and decided to also get the Black Hawk as it is priced very attractively. I already own a General SS that I like a lot. With the General I can get excellent very smooth one pass shaves and two pass BSS every time. I can get the one pass to be similar to a R41 one pass shave.

I received my package and decided to put a Super blade on it, did a few strokes and quit, finished with the very mild Mamba. After the shave I put my glasses on and inspected the blade exposure of the Super and there was a lot of it just by the added lengh of the blade. But I also noticed that the blade was only touching the bottom plate on the blades back edge, essentially angling the base down and creating a wide gap.

Today I put in a pro guard blade and noticed that the plate still touches the blade at the back edge, not as bad as the Super, I think the Super is thicker. I shaved with it and it was much better, had to keep a very shallow angle. Did get a BSS in two passes but was nowhere near as smooth as the General SS.

After the shave I looked at the cap/base aligment in more detail and noticed that the alignment is perfect without a blade, no gaps between he top and base. I did some scans to show the aligment. I also made a shim out of a DE blade to fill up the back of the base, it makes a difference (have not shaved with it yet). I have a hunch that if the back of the base or the top cap have a bit more meat, say the thickness of the standard professional blade that the razor would be smoother as the whole blade would be supported.

Now, for the price of the Black Hawk I think the lack of alignment it is perfectly acceptable.

On the pictures below, the white on the second picture is a piece of regular thickness printer paper. Notice that even with a shim the thickness of a DE blade the proguard is still not supported completely by the base.

View attachment 856319
I was looking at getting one of these does anyone know if the hair sharper blade from persona will fit in these.
 
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