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Razor longevity

If a single razor used daily needs to see the stones, let's say 5 times a year, and each honing removes .002" from the width as a SWAG. That would be .1" per decade which is more significant than I would have thought. I've always told people that a single razor could last a lifetime, but now I see that I'm probably wrong on that. Oh well.

Most members here have way more than one razor, so I can see why our perception would be that they last forever. I wonder if a seven day set was considered a lifetime set back in the day.
 
So you buy a 6/8 razor in your twenties and it’s a 9/16 Razor by your forties, with daily use?

Right, not lifetime. But still better than carts!
 
I'm thinking more about my estimate of .002" per honing. I use a microscope when I hone and I commonly see normal wear and tear damage to edges roughly estimated at 10% of a .02" bevel reveal for example. That's how I arrived at .002". Now arguably many people that refresh edges may not go far enough to remove 100% of the edge damage and still consider the edge refreshed so there is that.

I think that most razors would really need a regrind after .1" of wear, especially the quarter hollow and heavier.
 
i'm quite interested in this as I'm thinking of getting a smaller prbly 4/8" or even 3/8". I mean 5/8 and 6/8 are so popular, there MUST be a reason, and I'd like them all to last as long as possible.
 
I have several test gds that I used ALOT. I used to dull the edge on glass and then start from the 1k and up. These must have 50/60/70 bevel sets on them. I don't see how I couldn't use these same razors for life. Now 60 bevel sets is probably a lifetime worth or more. And yet theres still plenty left of them.
 
Just want to add after dulling on glass there's NOTHING left of.the edge. It isn't dull. There is.no way you can shave with it as opposed to a tuggy razor that still cuts. So bringing a dulled on glass edge back.on a 1k requires more work than a tuggy razor.
 
I have several test gds that I used ALOT. I used to dull the edge on glass and then start from the 1k and up. These must have 50/60/70 bevel sets on them. I don't see how I couldn't use these same razors for life. Now 60 bevel sets is probably a lifetime worth or more. And yet theres still plenty left of them.
Good data point here buca. So from your experience it appears that my .002" per honing estimate is excessive, especially considering that we would not normally be re setting the bevel.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
I should probably set up a test razor and use it, no matter what, maybe twice a week for the next 10 years and carefully record before/after measurements. I would go 20 years but I am already 59 and I might just say hell with it on shaving when I get to be an old fart. Anyway yeah curious now about how fast I am wearing a razor, stropping on .1u diamond embedded into balsa, after every shave. Been doing it for a few years now and I don't notice any difference, but I can't say I have always had any particular razor in the rotation for the whole time.

And sorta curious about regular honing wear. Not TOO curious, though. Some guys have a heavy hand, some a light one. Some guys reset the bevel occasionally. Some NEVER do. Some glass an edge. Some think it's just plain silly. I can easily envision some guys wearing away a razor at 10x the speed of someone else, to consider the extremes. I know me, I never glass an edge or kill an edge on a stone or breadknife. Don't use tape without a reason. Never reset a bevel after the first time I do it, unless I ding the edge on something. Used to refresh on 1u film or 12k nanny. Now just use the balsa every day. So I am probably toward the light end of the spectrum.

I do have a heavy hand when initially setting a bevel, I admit. I use the burr method, which actually removes less steel than some "gentle" approaches involving repeated attempts and tomato testing and TPT and TNT and doubtful outcomes and more repeat attempts just to make sure etc. But I am inclined to hone a pretty much straight edged razor until it is straight when bevel setting or edge repairing, or hone a warped blade flat until the bevel is truly there, and so on. In my first ten minutes with a razor I probably remove about the same amount of steel that 30 years of normal use in my hands will remove. I beat it into shape like a bad stepchild, and then gently nurture it.

So I think it is still kind of a subjective question that is best answered with the good old reliable "Just depends" or YMMV.
 
Anyway yeah curious now about how fast I am wearing a razor
Yeah, the whole topic is mostly a curiosity. It would be interesting to get info from people who hone professionally as to how deep the damage goes into the bevel on most of the razors that are sent in for re honing. It is possible that normal wear and tear from say 100 shaves may require more steel removal than a glassed edge that only has a few shaves on it.
 
Very interesting topic here, I have a little Black Diamond 5/8th's that Victor and I traded back and forth weekly.
Each would test shave the others edge and then re-hone and send this razor back for the other to test. We honed that razor from bevel set to finish so many times I lost count, had to have been dozens.
I have used this same razor as a tester for another three years or so and it has seen dozens more bevel set>finish honing's.
This Solingen full hollow is now a 9/16th's, so it's lost at least 1/16th inch in width since I purchased it as a used razor.
In another thread we were discussing the bad steel we would many times encounter in this razors edge and how much work it would take to repair the apex at bevel set, so these are not just refresh honing's but complete edge reset's.
For about a year now this edge has held up great to many honing's on many different stones and produces some very good edges. Recently I decided to see how this edge would hold up so I honed it to my standards HHT4+>5, finished on J-Nats and so far it has 4 shaves with know discernable degradation. BBS with no irritation.
I will continue to maintain this edge with just linen and leather stropping and see how the edge holds up.
I know this is just one razor but it's the only razor in my collection that's seen this much honing, a lifetimes worth?

Well maybe.
 
Yeah, the whole topic is mostly a curiosity. It would be interesting to get info from people who hone professionally as to how deep the damage goes into the bevel on most of the razors that are sent in for re honing. It is possible that normal wear and tear from say 100 shaves may require more steel removal than a glassed edge that only has a few shaves on it.
If there isnt heavy chipping i would say definitely. I found the post and the pics. Its got wear but lot of life left. I think the amount of steel that would need to be removed would be at least as much, again as long as there are no chips.
Bevel setting stroke question
 
Now ive seen more hone wear on brand new gold dollars on the first hone by a new honer. And thats because most guys take time to learn to torque towards the edge as opposed to leaning on the spine.
 
i'm quite interested in this as I'm thinking of getting a smaller prbly 4/8" or even 3/8". I mean 5/8 and 6/8 are so popular, there MUST be a reason, and I'd like them all to last as long as possible.
I've never dealt with anything smaller than a worn 5/8, but I feel that the smaller razors are a bit harder to strop. The larger the razor the more feedback that you get that your holding it flat on the strop. I think that that has more to due with the popularity of 5/8 and larger than longevity. I wouldn't worry too much about wearing them out, especially if you have more than one razor.

Over a long long time period;
As a razor loses width to honing the bevel is working it's way into thicker steel. If the bevel angle is kept constant the bevel width will keep getting bigger. This is often compensated for by increasing the bevel angle by honing with tape [a concession IMO ]. The thinner the original grind near the edge, the slower this comes into play as the razor wears. I would think that the grind would have more effect on the useful life than the size of the razor. For most of us this will always just be a theoretical exercise because we just don't put that much wear on our multiple razors over our lifetime. So if you like heavy grinds, don't worry about it.
 
Large bevels take longer to hone as there is more metal being refined. A lot longer? No. If you hone to feedback though like on a known jnat or other stone then you will know when it's ready. Tiny or large bevel will give you the tells you need to know when they are done.
 
I think my mistake was estimating the damage as going .002" into the edge. I just looked at a razor that has 131 shaves on it and while there are a few places where chips extend about .001" the rest of the edge would clean up with far less metal being removed. So for best razor life not taking out every single flaw would be prudent. It's safe to assume that the 100 year old razors were not being honed by people using microscopes.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Good point. No, not necessary to always hone out every single chip. If it shaves good, the edge is good enough. If it shaves great, the edge is great. Improving it beyond perceptible improvement is a waste of steel, however small that might be. Honing is for the shave, not the pics. The microscope is just a tool to help us get it there, not a new standard that we have to measure up to.
 
I use a 10x loupe. Used to have a scope but gave it away long time ago. Clean bevel and edge at 10x is fine for me. I didn't realize I was preserving metal at the same time. I think a scope can tell you things. But many of those same things can be observed at lower magnification and thru performance test(shave test). But I will leave that to you scientists to.debate over .lol.
 
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