RAZOR BURN.Gentlemen, please help!

[gcross88]

For YEARS now, I have been battling what still seems to be an endless nightmare of razor burn and general skin irritations resulting from shaving. It all started a little over 4 years ago when I joined the US Marine Corps, and thus began shaving every day. I have literally tried everything in my knowledge to cure myself of this irritating and unbecoming pain in the neck (pun intended).

I have tried every product that you can buy in a store (i.e. every disposable razor, cream and gel, aftershave and balm) and nothing seems to work. In 2009 I wandered into a "Art of Shaving" store and explained my issue to the sales clerk. He asked what razor I was using, to which at the time replied, "Gillette Fusion". His response was, "oh thats fine". Under the impression that the Fusion was a decent razor (it's not), I left with the Art of Shaving starter kit to include pre shave oil, shave cream, aftershave and a medium/small low grade brush. Now at the time I was NOT shaving in the best conditions and was always shaving in the morning and usually rushed. So in fairness I did not give the Art of Shaving products a decent chance. Needless to say, I still got irritation of the neck. And as a side note the irritation occurs in the vicinity of the adams apple and extends a bit to each side.

Fast forward a couple years. Since then I have tried even more products, to include a high end electric razor. No help. While doing some christmas shopping this past christmas I stumbled back into a AoS store and began speaking with a clerk. He started talking about the DE saftey razors and how they eliminate razor burn altogether due to it only being one razor passing over your skin. I was intrigued and began researching. Everything I have read, to include posts on here, is that safety razors, virtually eliminate razor irritation.

So I did a lot of research on products and invested some money. Unfortunately, I am still having the same issues. Now I know my technique is porbably far from perfect, but I still feel like even if I am SUPER careful, it just doesn't make a difference. I have shaved approximate five times now, and while some shaves were better than others, it has never resulted in a irritation-free shave. I have used the following routine:

1. Hot shower
2. soak pure badger brush in a ceramic bowl with hot water
3. create thick lather with AoS Lavender scented cream in bowl and apply to face
4. Shave WTG with a Merkur 34C
5. rinse and apply witch hazel
6. Dry off face and apply Nivea sensitive skin balm.
7. Curse my skin punch my dog (just kidding)

I have used merkur platinum coated stainless steal razors and Israeli personnas. Couldn't tell much of a difference between the two.

So that is my story. I am currently scheduling an appointment with a dermo and am seriously looking into laser treatment at this point. Any help would be overly appreciated. For those who stuck with me and read the entire post, I thank you for you patience. I am taking any and all reccomendations.

And lastly, I have the following products coming in the mail:
Taylors of Old Bond St Jermyn street collection shave cream for sensitive skin
Proraso pre and post shave cream
Proraso aftershave lotion

Again, I beg for some help.

 

[Nagash]

Out of curiosity have you paid attention to what direction the hair is growing in the area you're having issues with and adjusted your direction of shaving in that area to compensate or are you just shaving the same direction everywhere irregardless of growth direction? How many passes in that area are you doing? If more than one are you making sure to relather in between?

 

[Badgerfat]

Firstly I'd like to say....That sucks man lol.. But I may have a tiny bit of advise that can hopefully work for you. I also seem to have a trouble spot on my neck to the right of the adams apple. Too aggresive and I'm in for a bad day.

#1. On a day off or on leave, let it grow. Then after a good few days of growth feel your whiskers. Just that simple, feel which way you hair grows. Myself on my neck, I started feeling and found my trouble spot WTG pass was actually going toward my ear! So I would shave standard north to south on my whole face to that point, and then go WTG on my trouble spot.

#2. Maybe try a non glycerine based cream or soap. Believe it or not, not all creams are made for everybody. I love my glycerine based soaps, they lather great, and are super slick, but if I go for more than 2 passes, I get a slight burning sensation on my skin that lasts well after the shave is over. A tallow based soap may be your course to set. Tabac is a good one, lathers nice and the scent is old time barber shoppy.

#3. Try a little more selection of blades. Online retailers have trial packs for fairly cheap, and some of them will even throw a pack or 2 in for free with your order. And theres always the bay. Guy n gals sell blades all the time. Maybe try a feather (very carefully) It could be your blades just aren't sharp enough to get all the whiskers in one pass.

#4. Concentrate very hard on your technique. Start with a 1 pass shave, but consistently check your angles and reduced pressure on your skin. Could be your pressing too hard and your trouble spot like to let you know!

#5. And finally, Maybe try a different razor. I can personally recommend the EJ DE89. It's not mild, but not aggresive. It works very nicely, and the weight will let you know if your using too much pressure. Just remember, don't over think your shave. Don't always try to achieve BBS every time. Eventually it will become second nature. Your skin is yours Just figure it out and you will become one of us neurotic shave enthusiasts that has to have everything!!!

Chad

 

[imbored2deth]

Have you tried a cool/cold water shave? And that means soak the brush in and rinse the razor off with cool water.

Do you think you have any skin allergies/reactions to any products? Might be worthwhile to stick to one thing until you figure it out.

Most will say that razor burn is from pressure/angle of the razor. Hold your razor at the bottom with just the first two fingers and thumb.

 

[Badgerfat]

Also sorry, another thought lol. I like to rinse my face with warm (not hot) water to remove the cream or soap, and one I do that I rinse with as cold a water as my faucet will produce. In my mind it helps to shrink up your pores a bit.

 

[AjaxLepinski]

Have you tried pulling your skin off to the side or your Adam's Apple?
In my humble opinion, the Gillette Sensor three blade cartridge is the least irritating of all the cartridge systems.
Astra SPs are way better than Merkur DE blades. I've never tried Israeli Personas but, if you think they are just as bad as the Merkurs, you may like Astra SPs better.
Everyone will correctly suggest buying a sampler of DE blades. Samplers are available at any online shave supply site and at Amazon.com. With so many brands of blades, you're sure to find something that you'll like.
I agree with Chad - the EJ DE89 is one of the best razors out there.

I'm not sure if this will help in your case...
I hacked my face to bits the first time I DE shaved because, I used too much pressure, went too fast and started off with the wrong angle. To picture the correct angle, start by holding the razor handle parallel to the floor and the top of the razor touching your side burn area. While making short North to South strokes, slowly drop the handle towards the floor - you have the correct angle just as the blade starts cutting stubble.
If you begin with the handle perpendicular to the floor (blade 90 degrees to your face) , you will get a lot of chatter and you will wind up with a ton of nicks - this was the mistake that I made and I wound up a bloody mess!

I hope his helps and good luck!!!

 

[CubReporter]

I'd certainly say you have to give it more than five shaves. It took me a while to figure out my beard pattern, what makes a proper lather, blade angle, pressure, and all the other variables.

It sounds like your routine isn't too shabby. Make sure your lather isn't too airy or too dry. Accomplish this by adding just a few drops of water at a time when lathering. I also prefer to just dip the tips of the brush into warm water. It keeps it from getting too limp when you're trying to make a lather and put it on your face.

Also, at this point, keep the lather on your face for a few minutes.

Keep in mind that shaving is about gradual beard reduction, not beard removal in a single pass. Try making one pass in the same direction your beard grows. After that, make a second pass across the grain. DO NOT CONFUSE WITH AGAINST THE GRAIN, which is the opposite direction of your beard growth. You can shave that way, but it takes some getting used to.

You also might want to add an alum block to your routine and try it instead of the witch hazel. I find that using a Shavex block after a cold water splash gives a little sting, but really does a good job in preventing irritation when followed up with Nivea moisturizing cream.

Don't give in. Once you get used to it, you'll be so much happier with your shaves.

 

[Mad Man]

Hey gcross,

I too feel your pain. Same same on carts and electrics journey as you. Even after a year of DE shaving I can STILL get irritation from lazy technique, some products (try them on the inside of elbow for reactions is SOP) and even some blades (for me Personnas are a no-go). Take the advice above:

Map the beard
Use the Proraso pre/post (even between passes unless your skin test gives you a reaction)
Go WTG only until technique is sound (even my corporate everyday BAU shave is a 2xWTG and touch up)
Find a razor/blade combo and STICK TO IT FOR AT LEAST 30 days (most blokes chop/change too much too soon)
Keep a diary/notebook of your shaves - sounds weird but it worked for me and allowed me to keep a record of what worked/didn't.
For example: January 5. Merkur HD, Astra SP (3rd shave). Shower, presoaked MWF, EJ BBB. Loaded 30 swirls. Face lathered. 2 x WTG. Touch up. Ogallala BR AS. DFS on cheeks. CCS on neck.

 

[Lion and the Fox]

Welcome to the Badger and Blade!! On an unrelated note, check in and get your Active Duty or Veteran badge here: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/42404-Active-Duty-members-check-in?highlight=active+duty

Stick with it. DE shaving will help immensely once you get the hang of it. Good luck!

 

[JeffOlson]

Lots of good advice here.

A few thoughts:

Don't shave every day unless you must.

When you do shave, limit the number of passes to perhaps just two, one with the grain, and the other across the grain. Use very little pressure.

BBS is very over-rated in my opinion. Don't try for it.

Be careful with your shaving soap or cream. Your face can react just to that. Try to find something that is really moisturizing and perhaps unscented.

Don't splash alcohol on your face. Instead, slather on a good cream like Neutrogena.

And get yourself a good mild DE razor like a Feather or a Tech.

 

[kcenorez]

+1 to cold water shaving.


Sorry to hear about the irritation - I actually have the same exact problem, in the same place - adams apple area and to the sides around it. I think ive found that there is no with the grain way to shave this area - it simple grows in swirls in that part of my neck.
I had irritation for a long time, and it persisted with DE shaving and for some time i was using Tend Skin bc my friend gave me a bottle to try (apparantly that stuff works wonders for ingrown hairs, which I dont have - it did reduce the redness i got to some degree however).

That said, i recently switched to cold shaving with DE and I have had a great reduction of irritation. It's not 100 percent gone, but there is less irritation than there has ever been before.

Here's what I do, for reference or what have you:

Soak the brush in cold-cool water.
Shower (hot). Wash my face (hot or warm) with some gillette preshave wash or nivea face wash or whatever.
Get out of shower, wash face with cold water.
Apply proraso sensitive skin white preshave lotion.
Lather up with tepid-cool water (find it harder to get good lather with really cold water).
I use Truefitt and Hill Ultimate comfort cream.
Shave with the grain 2 passes everywhere (relathering inbetweeen), being super careful around the lower neck and trying to shave in the directions that seem to be MOST with the grain, although realistically there is no one direction down there.
Then i'll do 1 pass across the grain on cheeks and upper neck, and leave the lower neck alone or give it 1 more WTG pass to avoid unnecessary irritation.
The razor i'm using is a Edwin Jagger DE89. You might want to look for something even more mild, such as a gillette superspeed or an adjustable dialed all the way down.
After I shave, I rinse in cold water, then apply alum to my whole face - this is key.
Then i clean up, leaving the alum on my face.
After clean up, i rinse the alum off with cold water.
Then i apply some thayers witch hazel with aloe and let it dry.
Then I apply either aftershave lotion or aftershave balm, depending on how the shave was.


Hope this helps. There's a great cold water shaving thread here. Any questions i'm sure there are hundreds of people here to help. Good luck!

 

[Erik63]

I have had very good results using Cliniqe Post Shave Healer.

 

[A3M0N]

I only have two things to add. I only shave WTG on my neck, doesn't get near BBS, but I prefer less redness/burn/ingrowns over smoothness. Also, can you get a shaving waiver in the Marine Corps? I know in the Air Force you can get a waiver that will allow you to shave twice a week or as the doctor prescribes.

Good luck!

 

[BlackBear]

I only have two things to add. I only shave WTG on my neck, doesn't get near BBS, but I prefer less redness/burn/ingrowns over smoothness. Also, can you get a shaving waiver in the Marine Corps? I know in the Air Force you can get a waiver that will allow you to shave twice a week or as the doctor prescribes.

Good luck!

+1 If you can avoid shaving every day I think it will help immensely, when I first started with the DE I wanted to use it every day (just because I was excited more than anything else) but it didn't help with some neck irritation, redness etc. Once I buttoned off and made it every second day or even third day, my skin had time to heal and my shaves were better and I now get little to no irritation after shaving.

Try some different blades, Astra SP's are very good, smooth, sharp and forgiving. The Merkur blades have mixed reviews, I've yet to try one so can't comment.

I also use the Edwin Jagger DE89 as others have mentioned, it is one of the best ones out there at the moment for newcomers. Thayers make a medicated witch hazel which is very nice too, as well as other scented non alcohol toners containing Aloe Vera and witch hazel.

Good luck, and stick with the shaving, it will get better I'm sure, just a matter of finding a good combination for your skin.

 

[The Ambassador]

I only have two things to add. I only shave WTG on my neck, doesn't get near BBS, but I prefer less redness/burn/ingrowns over smoothness. Also, can you get a shaving waiver in the Marine Corps? I know in the Air Force you can get a waiver that will allow you to shave twice a week or as the doctor prescribes.

Good luck!

aren't these called shave chits?

 

[kmain]

Have you tried the AoS pre-shave oil?

 

[LouBarraza]

I usually get razor burn using dull or low quality razor blades,not properly prepping my beard,or too much pressure.In the shower,after using a exfoliating face scrub.Try using a bit of hair conditioner on the beard area.Or if are pressed for time and can't shower before shaving,after using a face scrub ,try holding a hot towel on your face for a minute.Try getting a blade sample pack and try different blades.I was getting bad razor burn with my DE until I started using Astra SPs.Great blades!Also,don't use to much pressure.Let the blade do the work and avoid going over the same areas without re lathering.There's an after shave treatment sold at some stores called Liquid Bump Stopper.Works great for treating razor bumps and burns.

 

[JayMars]

I had the same problem for a long time, I use derby blades and do WTG and XTG, when i got a very special event i'll got ATG and feel the pain later. Anyways, what i was getting at is that Derbys, unlike the gilettes, feather, dorcos etc laying around seem to be best suited to my situation. I use an open comb which helped alot, board brush also does a better job on my face, I face lather. I'm so tired i cant seem to convey my ideas so here is a list:
1. Find a suitable blade.
2. Use a scrub while in the shower that contains silicic* acid
3. Use a brush with a good backbone
4. Find a good moisturizer aftershave. I use a pricey one but it lasts for ever jack black post shave cooling gel (no cooling sensation) but its good.
5. Most importantly wait for all the bumps and burn to go away before you shave again, grow it out for a week while scrubbing every 2 days.

 

[A3M0N]

I've only heard them called waivers, since they waive the 36-2903 requirement to be clean shaven.

 

[gcross88]

First and foremost, thank you for all the help and extremely valuable insight. To follow up on a few comments:

In the Marine Corps we call it a "shave chit", but unfortunately as an unwritten rule it's not really acceptable for officers.

While on leave for two weeks during the holidays I had a great chance to grow my hair out to "map it" and see exactly how it grows. In fact, my hair grows north to south all the way down until exactly the area around the adams apple. At this point the hair grows almost in the opposite direction. Coincidentally, the irritation occurs about exactly where the hair changes directions. So when I shave, I have been shave north to south even through that area. I've tried shaving WTG in this area but can't seem to shave very effectively. Bottom line, I really need to try and just go WTG even in this area and also as many commented be extremely careful.

I will also try using the Astra SP's as I've heard numerous suggestions on them.

I also noticed some minor irritation to the AoS lavender cream so I will changing that up as well. Very intrigued about the cold shave process and will look more into that.

Thank again for all the feedback. I am not yet discouraged, as I've suffered from irritation for far too long to turn around and go back in the wrong direction. I am already an advocate of the wetshaving, because I am pretty certain that eventually I will find my routine.