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Razor and Knife Sharpening Stones Combination

Hi All,

I'm looking for a sharpening stone setup for maintaining my straight razor and German kitchen knives. I'm looking at the following setup:

1. Naniwa Pro 1k
2. Norton 4k/8k combo
3. Naniwa Super Stone 12k

Pretty much set on numbers 1 & 3.

Looking for suggestions for number 2, and thoughts on the full setup.

Thanks
 
I would look to the Naniwa Hayabusa 4K and the Naniwa Fuji 8K, the Pro 1K is really all you will need for your kitchen knives.
The Shapton glass 4K & 8K would also be a very nice choice, for just maintaining your st8 razor the 12K SS will suffice so unless you want to reset bevels and re-hone you don't need the 4>8.
I own all of these stones and have owned the Norton 4>8, there are many options for a complete honing set up but just for maintaining you really don't need all of them.
 
I would look to the Naniwa Hayabusa 4K and the Naniwa Fuji 8K, the Pro 1K is really all you will need for your kitchen knives.
The Shapton glass 4K & 8K would also be a very nice choice, for just maintaining your st8 razor the 12K SS will suffice so unless you want to reset bevels and re-hone you don't need the 4>8.
I own all of these stones and have owned the Norton 4>8, there are many options for a complete honing set up but just for maintaining you really don't need all of them.
so basically I don't need the Norton 4k/8k at all then. Naniwa Pro 1k for knives and Naniwa SS 12k for razor.
 
12k super stone is good for razors but it is soft and will dish easy on knives and you dont need it on knives unless you are a sushi chef.

Ik naniwa or 1.5k shapton are good on the two. Use one side dedicated for knives and the other for razors.

4k naniwa pro or 4k shapton.

8k niniwa snow white.

12k super stone just for your razor.

For knives 4k is good enough but 8k is what a lot of chefs pick and you can fix chips on your strsight razor if you happen to ding it.

I would get full bench stones rather than cobination stones so you can dedicate one side for each.

You can go 1,4,12 on straights but if you are new to honing it can be difficult to get good results. By adding the 8k you will be saving yourself some headache. 1,4,8,12 k is easy to get repeatably good results.

One more thing to add is the Norton 4/8k is more like 3/6 k compared to naniwa and shapton brands.
 
100% What @C FrankC said...

On that kind of Western steel - you do not need to go above 1k. It's a slightly complicated reason to do with the hardness of the heat treat, combined with the grind, and in particular - the size of the carbides. But you will not get an advantage going higher. So concentrate on what's good for razors with the other stones.

I would probably advise getting a lower grit stone for your knives too though. If you can get something around 500/1k combi that would be good. I believe I've used a 400/1k Naniwa Superstone combi that I thought did the job quite well. Though if you can get a similar thing in the Pro/Chosera range that'd be ideal.
 
I was actually thinking about this recently, and there are vanishingly few stones that I really like for both knives and razors. And with just three stones it's going to be difficult, but here's a slightly left-field setup that would probably work quite well for you...

SG 500
SG 4k
NSS 12k

The SG500 and 4k are absolutely adored as knife sharpening stones. The 500 would probably be all you need, but it's also used quite a lot for people doing big jumps and putting 'hybrid edges' on knives, so you could then run them quickly over the 4k.

I don't know much about razors, but if you can bevel set on the 4k, and the the jump to Superstone 12k is possible... you've got a three stone setup for both!

(Though TBH I'd add a King 1.2k in there as well.)
 
100% What @C FrankC said...

On that kind of Western steel - you do not need to go above 1k. It's a slightly complicated reason to do with the hardness of the heat treat, combined with the grind, and in particular - the size of the carbides. But you will not get an advantage going higher. So concentrate on what's good for razors with the other stones.

I would probably advise getting a lower grit stone for your knives too though. If you can get something around 500/1k combi that would be good. I believe I've used a 400/1k Naniwa Superstone combi that I thought did the job quite well. Though if you can get a similar thing in the Pro/Chosera range that'd be ideal.
A Naniwa pro 400/1000 combo stone would be the best bang for buck if there was one. Haven't yet come across one.
 
I’m a chef and have been for a fair while, so I can recommend knife stones, but for razor honing I think most other guys here will be more experienced than me. Anyway, here goes:

What I’ve found to work best on most chef’s knives is a Chosera 800, optionally followed with a polishing stone (I currently use an 8k Morihei at work, but I can also personally recommend a Naniwa Snow White or shapton glass 8k). The big jump in grit leaves a toothy edge that is good for most food. This is what works for me, but these are all fairly expensive stones. So, in your case I would recommend buying a King KDS 1000/6000 combi stone for your knives and saving your budget for nice razor stones. I have used the king KDS stones plenty and they are good, not as fast cutting as Naniwa stones but far from terrible and they are very affordable. If you need an even sharper edge than the 6000 grit, strop with green dialux paste on a bit of cardboard. Leather doesn’t do well in the kitchen.

Hope this helps, good luck!
 
That is a good set up for razors, but you need lower grits for knives. A lot depends on how often you will be honing with each, what kind of knives you are honing and what they will be used for. For general purpose, kitchen use, you do not need to finish a knife to 12k.

Yes, you can do both with the same stones, but you will be flattening your stones frequently because knife tips tear up soft stones. So, a Diamond plate, CKTG sells a 400-1k combo plate, $35 will work just fine, you can also use it in place of a low grit stone for knives, (chip removal).

If you use a gouged stone on a razor you can chip the edge. A lot depends on how often you will be honing with each.

The Norton 4/8 is a good stone and will finish both nicely, especially if you finish razors on a 12k.

Really there are no perfect stones, brands do not matter much, they all work much the same with exception of high grit finishers. Honing knives and razor is more technique than the stone.

 
I would not want the Norton 4k/8k in my house for any reason.

I might be convinced the N8k standalone is useful as a sub for a JIS 5k stone, but the N4k is, to me, annoyingly useless (soft/slow/not really 4k) in comparison to just about anything else. I prefer the Shapton Pro 2k, 5k, or Glass 4k, 6k.

Nani Pro 1k is a good stone, the product line had inherent cracking and crazing issues so I dumped mine. I had Chosera and Pro stones, both good, both had cracking/crazing issues.

I only use the 12k Super with cutlery 'once in a great while', most of my kitchen edges are sub 5k. The binder is soft, a very light hand is needed on this stone though. Gouging should not be a problem unless you are not so careful and/or working with steep bevels.

Nani Hayabusa and Falcon are both softer types, both stones are not 'heavy pressure grits' really but you might wind up gouging still.

I do most knife work on Glass Stones, but I have Pros also and they get used too.
120x -220x for corrective work, reprofiling, chip/tip repair.
320x - start point for blades that went too far south.
500x (Glass Stone) - start point for most blades that aren't 'too far gone'.
Higher grits than that depend on application.

I don't finish razors or Japanese knives on synths usually.

Very typical straight razor synth progression;

Shapton Pro 1.5k, 5k, possibly 8k (usually not), then move to Natural stones. I do have a couple of 12k stones, and once in a rare purple moon I will use them, same for the 16k & 30k Glass Stones.


Wusthoff Classic Chefs Knife - let's say condition is dull but still able to cut a sandwich.
500x GS, 1k GS/Pro, 4k GS
Note - I might start on the 1k...depends on how the test cut goes.
If duller, start on 320x. Very dull, start on 220x.
Unless the edge gremlin got to them, I can usually tune up most of the knives in the block with the 1k.
Remember, with a Chefs Knife, there is a finger guard that needs to be ground back at some point, I use a pretty coarse grit to take those sections back.
 
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I would not want the Norton 4k/8k in my house for any reason.

I might be convinced the N8k standalone is useful as a sub for a JIS 5k stone, but the N4k is, to me, annoyingly useless (soft/slow/not really 4k) in comparison to just about anything else. I prefer the Shapton Pro 2k, 5k, or Glass 4k, 6k.

Nani Pro 1k is a good stone, the product line had inherent cracking and crazing issues so I dumped mine. I had Chosera and Pro stones, both good, both had cracking/crazing issues.

I only use the 12k Super with cutlery 'once in a great while', most of my kitchen edges are sub 5k. The binder is soft, a very light hand is needed on this stone though. Gouging should not be a problem unless you are not so careful and/or working with steep bevels.

Nani Hayabusa and Falcon are both softer types, both stones are not 'heavy pressure grits' really but you might wind up gouging still.

I do most knife work on Glass Stones, but I have Pros also and they get used too.
120x -220x for corrective work, reprofiling, chip/tip repair.
320x - start point for blades that went too far south.
500x (Glass Stone) - start point for most blades that aren't 'too far gone'.
Higher grits than that depend on application.

I don't finish razors or Japanese knives on synths usually.

Very typical straight razor synth progression;

Shapton Pro 1.5k, 5k, possibly 8k (usually not), then move to Natural stones. I do have a couple of 12k stones, and once in a rare purple moon I will use them, same for the 16k & 30k Glass Stones.


Wusthoff Classic Chefs Knife - let's say condition is dull but still able to cut a sandwich.
500x GS, 1k GS/Pro, 4k GS
Note - I might start on the 1k...depends on how the test cut goes.
If duller, start on 320x. Very dull, start on 220x.
Unless the edge gremlin got to them, I can usually tune up most of the knives in the block with the 1k.
Remember, with a Chefs Knife, there is a finger guard that needs to be ground back at some point, I use a pretty coarse grit to take those sections back.
I've got the Henckels kitchen knife set. I'm thinking just the Naniwa Pro 1k to maintain my knives and the Naniwa Super Stone 12k for maintaining straight razor. Sounds like I don't really need to get the mid grit stones.
 
I’m a chef and have been for a fair while, so I can recommend knife stones, but for razor honing I think most other guys here will be more experienced than me. Anyway, here goes:

What I’ve found to work best on most chef’s knives is a Chosera 800, optionally followed with a polishing stone (I currently use an 8k Morihei at work, but I can also personally recommend a Naniwa Snow White or shapton glass 8k). The big jump in grit leaves a toothy edge that is good for most food. This is what works for me, but these are all fairly expensive stones. So, in your case I would recommend buying a King KDS 1000/6000 combi stone for your knives and saving your budget for nice razor stones. I have used the king KDS stones plenty and they are good, not as fast cutting as Naniwa stones but far from terrible and they are very affordable. If you need an even sharper edge than the 6000 grit, strop with green dialux paste on a bit of cardboard. Leather doesn’t do well in the kitchen.

Hope this helps, good luck!
Of you had to pick one stone for the home kitchen knives set, which would it be?
 
Of you had to pick one stone for the home kitchen knives set, which would it be?

The King 1000/6000. It’s less than half the price of the Chosera and allows you to get a very nice finish.

In my experience, sharing stones between knives and razors doesn’t work as well as one might think so perhaps it is best to grab the cheaper option for your knives and invest the difference in nicer razor hones.

Cheers.
 
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I would look to the Naniwa Hayabusa 4K and the Naniwa Fuji 8K, the Pro 1K is really all you will need for your kitchen knives.
The Shapton glass 4K & 8K would also be a very nice choice, for just maintaining your st8 razor the 12K SS will suffice so unless you want to reset bevels and re-hone you don't need the 4>8.
I own all of these stones and have owned the Norton 4>8, there are many options for a complete honing set up but just for maintaining you really don't need all of them.
It depends on what you like, but i find the Hayabusa 4k to be a little on the soft side for the way i sharpen knifes. The Fuji 8k is a fantastic stone, but to fine for typical softer kitchen knifes. I have found that for razors the Hayabusa 4k and the Fuji 8k works great as a system. I am not sure if i like the 1k in the Gouken series. It is the only 1k i own, so i do not have anything to compare it to.
I like the hardness and feedback of the Shapton GS HR for razors and for knifes.
 
The other point someone made above that's certainly worth considering re- the kitchen knives is: finger guards. Finger guards are the bane of my feckin life. They *will* need taking down, and that *will* require a coarse stone, and ideally a vitrified one. For an absolutely ideal, and cheap, setup for German kitchen knives I would go a Norton SiC Coarse and Fine and a King 1.2 (or NP, or Cerax, or SG, for a bit more $).

One other thing to bear in mind - King stones are soakers, and they improve markedly when permasoaked. Cerax is a soaker too, but doesn't change noticeably after 15 mins. NP/Chosera and SG are SnG. I personally prefer soakers, but many are the other way round.
 
Hi All,

I'm looking for a sharpening stone setup for maintaining my straight razor and German kitchen knives. I'm looking at the following setup:

1. Naniwa Pro 1k
2. Norton 4k/8k combo
3. Naniwa Super Stone 12k

Pretty much set on numbers 1 & 3.

Looking for suggestions for number 2, and thoughts on the full setup.

Thanks
I like a single stone for knife maintenance. Sometimes that's washita, sometimes Charnley, Sometimes Tam O shanter, Heck sometimes fine india, or a half dozen others. If I HAD to pick one for ALL my knives? I'd be a nice soft charnley probably... or maybe a good washita, or a tam.


Maintaining a straight razor, I'd have a thuri, PDSO, or a nice finisher Jnat. Trans ark belongs in that list to if you take the time to get a hang of one and enjoy the shaves (definitely not as "automatic" as the other three).


Now, RESTORING and Sharpening knives and razors that aren't sharp Might want for more, but I use Diamonds (and with knives coarser india/crystolon) for all that.


Personally I'm not a fan of synth waterstones with knives. I don't like maintaining flat on them or the risk of gouging super easily on softer ones. And I think there's a lot of better options for razors.

Coarse work on knives, don't worry about. Synth oilstones are great for that and are dirt cheap. I've gotten truckloads of them in lots I bought for other stones.

Coarse work on razors, I use DMT's and see absolutely zero reason to even consider anything else... but lots of guys like waterstones. I think Chosera's are considered "the best" but someone can feel free to correct me on that.

Midrange work on razors, DMT 8000 all day for me, but I've met maybe 1-2 other guys who agree. Most people I've convinced to try it, get rid of it pretty quick. It has a small learning curve and maintenance (cleaning/unclogging even when it doesn't look dirty) that I think most people won't bother with. Once you get over that hump though, it's at least twice as fast as anything else and leaves an immaculate edge to take to a finisher (I don't like it as a final stone for anything though, the edge has a bit of a curve that isn't ideal)

Knives don't need a midrange hone.

Finishers I detailed above. Best Synth waterstone razor finisher I've used is a SP 13k, which was equal imho to a Goku 20k (and cheaper)... but they're all really similar. Nani 12k is fine, though I think some people like the 10k better if memory serves.

I flat out never finish a knife on a synth waterstone. NEVER had an edge I was happy with off any synth other than an oilstone (and then only for knives that don't need a polished edge) with a knife, and I HATE the process itself. Probably my technique, but it is what it is.
 
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They are not very popular amongst razor folks, but you can do a lot with inexpensive king stones. They get a good bit of flack for being soft along with often needing flattening as well as being a soaker stone. But the abrasives used are not at all bad and I have never had an issue doing heavy work on “800-1000” range nor polishing fine edges at their “6000” range. Other synths are nicer in many respects but also come on with a matching price tag while the kings do actually give decent results. Add a strop and some abrasive like CrOx, Diamond, etc and Bob’s your uncle. Also not the most popular :)
 
Dmt 325 for the kitchen. One and done. The exception being the santoku. Which gets the 1200. I don't cut sushi but I do cut meat fish and poultry, raw and cooked veggies and fruit. And even though I have refined edges further. I have not seen any good reason to. It cuts arm hair. Which is not particularly interesting as I'm not shaving with it. But some gauge the sharpness by that. I do however refine my edcs sometimes way more than I need for giggles.
 
They are not very popular amongst razor folks, but you can do a lot with inexpensive king stones. They get a good bit of flack for being soft along with often needing flattening as well as being a soaker stone. But the abrasives used are not at all bad and I have never had an issue doing heavy work on “800-1000” range nor polishing fine edges at their “6000” range. Other synths are nicer in many respects but also come on with a matching price tag while the kings do actually give decent results. Add a strop and some abrasive like CrOx, Diamond, etc and Bob’s your uncle. Also not the most popular :)

^ This too!

King 800 and King 1200 are superb stones. Genuinely excellent. They are both also, if you need another rabbit hole... incredibly good stones for kasumi base.
 
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