Razor advice

[Darth Scandalous]

I asked wether the spine was taped from the vendor and he replied, “
Yes I will have honed it with a layer of tape on the spine. I am partial to this tape from Lowes as I have found it durable and leaves no residue on the blade: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-66-ft/1000121731
But the Super 88 tape from 3m would be a fine substitute.”
Would i continue to use tape with the balsa method? I read somewhere in those 64+ pages that you don’t use it with a hollow blade, but I can’t recall what the consensus was for a wedge blade.
In the meantime, I’m going to grab a notepad and reread all the info whilst taking notes (which I should have done in the first place.)
Cheers!!

You're going to get a variety of opinions. What I have found is balsa works ok on a blade that are flexible regardless of how it was honed. I have found it doesn't work well on quarter hollows that were honed on tape. It makes sense, you need to be making contact all the way to the apex and that's not going to happen on a stiff blade.

A second consideration. Balsa works great for a blade that is relatively straight. The more smile a blade has, the more creative you have to be to hit the whole edge. It's basically the same as the rolling x-stroke in honing, except that you have to seriously regulate your pressure and you can't exaggerate the spine lift at all. There is a learning curve, pardon the pun. And it's more time consuming.

A cheap, and time-tested way to maintain a razor like this is a hanging nylon or fabric strop loaded with chromium oxide or a similar strop paste, followed by clean leather, of course. The deflection in the strop will more than account for the increased bevel angle due to the taped spine. You don't need to use the CrOx every day, just as a refresh. It will maintain your razor for a very long time if your stropping game is on point.

I'm a big fan of the Method edges, but with razors that are excessively smiley and/or were honed on tape, I prefer to just do a quick refresh on fine grit film and my trans ark when they need it. It's faster for me.

I don't use CrOx anymore but I maintained a razor for about 3 years on just CrOx and clean leather before it finally needed to be honed. Full disclosure, I wasn't shaving my whole face at the time, but still. It can be done.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

@Darth Scandalous
When you reference “smiling” blade, you mean the slight curve on the blade? As in the picture of the razor I bought? See picture for reference.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

@Darth Scandalous
When you reference “smiling” blade, you mean the slight curve on the blade? As in the picture of the razor I bought? See picture for reference.

Yes sir, exactly.

 

[Slash McCoy]

If you are holding the balsa in hand, as per The Method, a smiling edge is no problem at all.

Taped spine honing is not optimal with The Method. Do what you like, but in my view if you are going to hone with tape, don't bother with the balsa. CrOx on leather? Meh. Like I said, do what you want. But you won't have a Method edge. It's not the end of the world if you don't, but once you grow accustomed to shaving with a Method edge, no CrOx on leather edge will satisfy. At least it won't satisfy me. I can't do THIS with a CrOx edge. But to be fair, you don't need to. If you want to strop on leather with CrOx, go for it. Your razor. But best results come from following The Method. Again, you don't have to have best results to get a shave. It's all about what you want.

Tape if you like. I don't. If a razor needs to be taped for honing, I get rid of it. Use your taped razor on the balsa if you like. I won't. Already discussed in the pasted balsa thread.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

If you are holding the balsa in hand, as per The Method, a smiling edge is no problem at all.

Taped spine honing is not optimal with The Method. Do what you like, but in my view if you are going to hone with tape, don't bother with the balsa. CrOx on leather? Meh. Like I said, do what you want. But you won't have a Method edge. It's not the end of the world if you don't, but once you grow accustomed to shaving with a Method edge, no CrOx on leather edge will satisfy. At least it won't satisfy me. I can't do THIS with a CrOx edge. But to be fair, you don't need to. If you want to strop on leather with CrOx, go for it. Your razor. But best results come from following The Method. Again, you don't have to have best results to get a shave. It's all about what you want.

Tape if you like. I don't. If a razor needs to be taped for honing, I get rid of it. Use your taped razor on the balsa if you like. I won't. Already discussed in the pasted balsa thread.

I’m currently re-reading the balsa thread. I did order the balsa wood and acrylic backing, (visited a few local stores and couldn’t find the right size materials so I went with the internet stores). I’m excited to begin the process of building the strops.
I’ll wait until I’ve re-read the balsa thread thoroughly while taking notes to ask further balsa questions, I hate for people to regurgitate info that is already available.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

For the record, @Slash McCoy I was suggesting CrOx on a fabric strop followed by clean leather. Not CrOx on leather.

As far as smilers on balsa, sure it's doable. It also takes twice as long.

@GreenMountainBarber , you'll definitely be able to use the balsa on the other razor you showed us, once it's properly honed. And there's no harm in trying the Wosty on it either. It will either improve the edge or it won't. It's not going to hurt it.

 

[APBinNCA]

If you are holding the balsa in hand, as per The Method, a smiling edge is no problem at all.

Taped spine honing is not optimal with The Method. Do what you like, but in my view if you are going to hone with tape, don't bother with the balsa. CrOx on leather? Meh. Like I said, do what you want. But you won't have a Method edge. It's not the end of the world if you don't, but once you grow accustomed to shaving with a Method edge, no CrOx on leather edge will satisfy. At least it won't satisfy me. I can't do THIS with a CrOx edge. But to be fair, you don't need to. If you want to strop on leather with CrOx, go for it. Your razor. But best results come from following The Method. Again, you don't have to have best results to get a shave. It's all about what you want.

Tape if you like. I don't. If a razor needs to be taped for honing, I get rid of it. Use your taped razor on the balsa if you like. I won't. Already discussed in the pasted balsa thread.

So is he ever going to start selling razors again, the video is only a year old?

 

[rbscebu]

....
Would i continue to use tape with the balsa method? I read somewhere in those 64+ pages that you don’t use it with a hollow blade, but I can’t recall what the consensus was for a wedge blade.
In the meantime, I’m going to grab a notepad and reread all the info whilst taking notes (which I should have done in the first place.)
Cheers!!

From memory, you don't use tape with pasted balsa. It can contaminate the compound.

Don't know about pasted balsa stropping a full wedge. Perhaps @Slash McCoy can chime in here about that.

If pasted balsa stropping with tape, you would need to renew it for each different size of diamond pasted. If not done, you will contaminate the finer paste with particles from the previous courser paste.

Balsa stropping a full wedge will require you to be sure that the tape is in exactly the same position on the blade each time. Otherwise you will be stropping at a different angle after each tape change.

Perhaps it is just best to forget pasted balsa stropping with a full wedge.

 

[Slash McCoy]

So is he ever going to start selling razors again, the video is only a year old?

There are no particular plans to do so. Mrs McCoy doesn't give me any time for fishing, hunting, sailing, or drinking beer, let alone honing and shipping razors. But who knows. Also there were supply issues. I was getting lied to and jerked around a lot by the factory and eventually I had to file a claim through Alibaba for failure to ship. Anyway I have done my bit. Time for someone else to step up to the plate, I think. Stop poking already.

 

[Slash McCoy]

From memory, you don't use tape with pasted balsa. It can contaminate the compound.

Don't know about pasted balsa stropping a full wedge. Perhaps @Slash McCoy can chime in here about that.

If pasted balsa stropping with tape, you would need to renew it for each different size of diamond pasted. If not done, you will contaminate the finer paste with particles from the previous courser paste.

Balsa stropping a full wedge will require you to be sure that the tape is in exactly the same position on the blade each time. Otherwise you will be stropping at a different angle after each tape change.

Perhaps it is just best to forget pasted balsa stropping with a full wedge.

I don't hone full wedges and I don't own a single full wedge, AFAIK. So I can't tell you anything about full wedges on balsa except I don't do it. You would have to come up with your own system. IMHO, they are not compatible and there are way too many hollowground razors in the world for me to mess with a wedge. If I honed other people's razors for a living then I would probably give it some thought other than just "nope". If someone else wants to go for it anyway, that's fine by me.

 

[Slash McCoy]

For the record, @Slash McCoy I was suggesting CrOx on a fabric strop followed by clean leather. Not CrOx on leather.

As far as smilers on balsa, sure it's doable. It also takes twice as long.

@GreenMountainBarber , you'll definitely be able to use the balsa on the other razor you showed us, once it's properly honed. And there's no harm in trying the Wosty on it either. It will either improve the edge or it won't. It's not going to hurt it.

Okay, I read too fast while distracted. Trying to get the spare generator running while Mrs McCoy has my ear telling me more stuff I need to be doing. Don't EVER retire. When you do, you won't get days off any more. But it doesn't take me twice as long. If it did, that would mean an extra couple of minutes and I guess I would have to cancel my appointments for the duration. I guess. I honestly don't notice it taking any longer, though. I suppose I could get Mrs. McCoy to time me with a stop watch.

Remember though, CrOx has been used on just about every substance known to man, for probably a hundred years, (don't quote me on that, not sure) with meh results.

 

[APBinNCA]

There are no particular plans to do so. Mrs McCoy doesn't give me any time for fishing, hunting, sailing, or drinking beer, let alone honing and shipping razors. But who knows. Also there were supply issues. I was getting lied to and jerked around a lot by the factory and eventually I had to file a claim through Alibaba for failure to ship. Anyway I have done my bit. Time for someone else to step up to the plate, I think. Stop poking already.

Sorry it's too much fun, I can't stop poking. Thanks for the reply, didn't mean to be mean about it. I am always reading about the straight shavers on here sending out method edge razors for people to try, but thought for as much as you were charging I would just buy one. I want to have that as reference or three as I try different things. Your video is exactly what I was trying to describe to somebody as almost literally peeling a beard off, but without the risky high angle hijinks regularly seen on the tube. I will just buy whatever is cheap and ruin a few along the way!

 

[Frank Shaves]

Using tape is a polarizing topic, @GreenMountainBarber.

There are multiple issues here. First, people use tape for two reasons: 1) to protect the spine from wear, and 2) to control the bevel angle. Based on my experience, most 19th century Sheffields need a layer of tape for reason 2.

Assuming your Wostenholm needs a layer of tape, then the question is to tape or not to tape on the balsa. I would just try it with and without tape to see what you think. Worst case, you might have to re-sand and re-apply the diamond paste to the balsa.

The edges of the old Sheffields have what is called a smile shape. There is evidence that this is the way they were made. To accommodate the smile, one needs to perform a variation of the x-stroke when honing that is called the rolling x-stroke.

Digression: A straight edge is the intersection of two planes. Think of an edge with a smile as the intersection of a continuum of pairs of intersecting planes.

For a rolling x-stroke, as you start the x-stroke with the heel portion of the blade, you need to lift the toe of the razor (ever so) slightly so the heel makes contact. You then gradually lower the toe until you reach the middle of the edge, and then do the reverse - gradually raise the heel as you finish the stroke so the toe makes contact. Once you see it, it's pretty simple and just takes some practice. Watch this video:

If and when you buy a post WWII razor in decent shape, the edge should be formed by two planes, and you should not need to do any lifting and lowering.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

@Frank Shaves
Your post was incredibly helpful. Seeing is believing and the video you shared will be extremely useful. I feel way more confident about the prospect of honing my blade. Big time thank you!!!!

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

If I were to get a new Ralf Aust, full hollow razor, would I need to do the full process from setting the bevel with the burr method, to the three sheets of microfilm and finally the balsa method…..or would I merely need to upkeep it with the balsa method? I’ve ordered everything to make the balsa strops, and an extra acrylic for a base for the microfilms. I would prefer to learn maintenance prior to learning how to set a hone, so if I could buy a razor that only needs upkeep on balsa, that would be ideal. That’s why I’m asking about the Ralf Aust razors.

 

[Slash McCoy]

If it is honed originally without tape, then you only need to run the three stage balsa progression to have a Method edge, as per the pasted balsa thread, Then you only need the final .1u balsa to maintain it at that level. If the razor was honed with tape, you will definitely need to adjust that bevel angle for best results if you intend to use the balsa, and the best way to do that would be to reset the bevel on a 1k or 2k stone, or maybe 15u lapping film. Then the rest of the progression.

However, the edge from the maker, while it is not going to be a Method edge, will definitely still be a shave ready edge. You Will be able to shave with it right out of the box, by all accounts I have read. If he hones with tape, you could maintain that level of sharpness with something like a 12k Naniwa, if you keep the stone lapped, or on 1u lapping film, as per the lapping film thread. I won't use tape on film but some guys do. Usually if I need to use tape, I discard the razor, and if I don't need to use tape, I hone without tape, and if the bevel needs reset, I reset it. Your razor. If it was originally honed with tape, and you want to just continue with tape, you can add a piece of tape to the spine and refresh on 12k, no problem. I strongly recommend against using tape when it is not necessary due to geometry. Other guys recommend using tape no matter what. Your razor. Whatever blows your skirt up.

But regardless, from 12k you would not get much joy from going straight to .1u diamond on balsa. You would need the .5u and .25u first. And I don't know anybody who uses tape with the balsa. It just isn't compatible.

SO, IMHO, to rehash, here are your choices.

1. if it was honed without tape, you should set up the three stage balsa progression exactly as in the balsa thread, use it once or maybe twice if you don't get it right the first time, and then maintain on .1u.

2. IF it was honed with tape, then have it honed from scratch without tape, and then treated as a regular razor honed without tape, as above.

3. If it was honed with tape and you want to continue to hone with tape, then you can get by with 1k stone. Don't bother with the balsa.

Not everyone will agree with me. Your razor. Listen to all arguments and choose the method that resonates with you, for whatever reasons you like.

If you buy directly from the maker, and he normally hones with tape, he will probably be okay with honing it for you without tape, if you ask.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

@Slash McCoy Thank you for your words of advice. Also, thank you for the videos that you’ve made and shared, I can’t tell you how helpful they have been to understanding the method. I’m going to take options 1 or 2, I’m pretty committed to the balsa idea at this point.

 

[rbscebu]

@GreenMountainBarber hopefully with your new Ralf Aust you should need nothing more than your diamond pasted balsa strops. Ralf normally supplies his SR's with an already honed shave-ready edge.

Ask the vendor if the SR was honed with or without tape. If it was honed without tape, you should be right to go just with a set of diamond pasted balsa strops.

If the blade was honed with tape, you (or someone else) will first need to reset the bevel and refine the bevel/edge all without tape before the balsa strops will be effective.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I would just explain to whomever you buy the razor from exactly what you want to do. I have never bought a razor from Maggard Razor, but they sell Ralf Aust razors and are a reputable seller.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I would just explain to whomever you buy the razor from exactly what you want to do. I have never bought a razor from Maggard Razor, but they sell Ralf Aust razors and are a reputable seller.

Upvote for Maggard's, good seller, but for this I would go straight to the source.