Razor advice

[Frank Shaves]

Hi Frank!
Thanks for the suggested question, I will promptly send them an email enquiring. Also, what do you mean by “near wedges”

This is the photo of the grind of your razor from GSG. The ability of razor makers to grind edges has evolved over time. In the middle of the 19th century it was common to grind a razor such that it resembled a triangle with a small amount of metal ground out. This is called near wedge or quarter hollow.

As we move into the 20th century, it became common to grind away more metal. There have been numerous discussions about true wedges, near wedges/quarter hollows, half hollows and full hollows.

Here is the grind of a Filarmonica 13 Doble Temple with a full hollow grind. Different, right?

There is no better or worse, just different. All depends on what you like. I seem to have developed a preference for thicker grinds: near wedges/quarter hollows and half hollows. But I also have full hollows that I enjoy.

After you use your near wedge for while, get yourself a full hollow to experience the other side of the spectrum.

A great way to learn about different razors is to watch these two threads - just push click on the "Watch" link at the top of each:

Straight Razor Acquisition Thread

Okay, so I'm definitely not being original on this, totally taking Bigfoot's idea, but I love looking at the Safety Razor Acquisition Thread on the DE Subforum and I haven't been able to find one for straight razors. I'd love to see any Straights you've recently acquired (Pictures are a must)...

www.badgerandblade.com

How straight should your straight razor be?

I'm pretty new to the straight razor game and bought my first razor recently. A question I have is how straight the blade should be compared to the scales? When I close it down, the tip is off to one side (pic below). I don't know whether this is considered acceptable and if I'm just being too...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Frank Shaves]

I'll let @Slash McCoy address that matter. He is much more experienced than I am at dealing with taped honing.

Personally, I would ask Griffith if they would hone it without tape.

Nobody really knows how they honed razors during the middle of the 19th century. Apparently, 3M Scotch Super 88 tape was not available and one theory is they free handed the honing, but no one knows.

I have now restored over ten 19th century Sheffield near wedges and each one is different. In most cases, one layer of tape is needed to produce an edge with an angle that is optimized for shaving. In a small number of cases, one layer of tape is not sufficient and two layers of tape is required. Otherwise, the metal is too thin to hold an acceptable edge. There may be cases in which tape is not needed, but I have never seen this or heard of this. My experience is consistent with advice that @Doc226 (an expert honer) gave me about honing these razors.

GSG has a very good reputation and has restored tons of old razors. I would trust them to make a good decision about how to hone your razor.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I'm pretty sure Matt hones all the razors he sells with tape; regardless, I'm certain that a he would have used tape on a wedgy blade like that, especially since the listing specified "no hone wear" after he reground it. It's no biggy. It will shave great. He does good work.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

This is the photo of the grind of your razor from GSG. The ability of razor makers to grind edges has evolved over time. In the middle of the 19th century it was common to grind a razor such that it resembled a triangle with a small amount of metal ground out. This is called near wedge or quarter hollow.

View attachment 1376323

As we move into the 20th century, it became common to grind away more metal. There have been numerous discussions about true wedges, near wedges/quarter hollows, half hollows and full hollows.

Here is the grind of a Filarmonica 13 Doble Temple with a full hollow grind. Different, right?

View attachment 1376326

There is no better or worse, just different. All depends on what you like. I seem to have developed a preference for thicker grinds: near wedges/quarter hollows and half hollows. But I also have full hollows that I enjoy.

After you use your near wedge for while, get yourself a full hollow to experience the other side of the spectrum.

A great way to learn about different razors is to watch these two threads - just push click on the "Watch" link at the top of each:

Straight Razor Acquisition Thread

Okay, so I'm definitely not being original on this, totally taking Bigfoot's idea, but I love looking at the Safety Razor Acquisition Thread on the DE Subforum and I haven't been able to find one for straight razors. I'd love to see any Straights you've recently acquired (Pictures are a must)...

www.badgerandblade.com

How straight should your straight razor be?

I'm pretty new to the straight razor game and bought my first razor recently. A question I have is how straight the blade should be compared to the scales? When I close it down, the tip is off to one side (pic below). I don't know whether this is considered acceptable and if I'm just being too...

www.badgerandblade.com

Frank,
Thank you!! That was super in-depth and helpful! I also didn’t know about the “watch” function!! That’s super handy!! Today after work I’m going to dig out my grandfathers old razor (assuming I can find it, I have a habit of putting things I value in a safe place and promptly forgetting which safe place I put it in) I’ll be excited to see what type of grind it has. I’m somewhat familiar with a straight grind and a hollow grind as I’ve been a hobby blacksmith for over a decade and have forged knives with both those grinds, however I was unaware of the nuances between a quarter hollow and a half hollow, nor the usage of the wedges moniker. I’ve learned a lot this morning and it’s not even 7:30 yet!! I really appreciate the information you all are sharing!!!

 

[Frank Shaves]

Can you post a photo of the second razor so we know what we are talking about?

 

[Eastcoast30]

Matt at Griffith has never disappointed me. You won't go wrong getting any razor from him.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

I found my Grandfathers razor, I knew I had it somewhere safe, I just had to look through 7 dozens “safe” places until I found it.
This is the razor I would love to have brought back to working order. As you can see on the handle, my Grandad scratched his initials, which I appreciate.
@Frank Shaves i tried to get a picture of the blades hollow, hope it’s clear enough.
Cheers!!!

 

[Frank Shaves]

Greaves & Sons For Barber Use near wedge or perhaps half hollow. Your grandfather had impeccable taste. Greaves is one of the top-tier Sheffield makers. The For Barber Use razors are highly prized with the 8/8 inch wide blades fetching over $300 when restored. It looks like the scales are original and in good condition. Do you see any cracks or chips in the scales?

The more I look at the grind profile, the more I think it is a half hollow. It also has what is called a stabilizer which suggests half hollow.

There is some wear on the spine but looks pretty good to me.

I would be curious about what others think, but there doesn't seem to be much edge left to hone near the heel. Some of the guys may have recommendations for how to fix this.

 

[BDF]

Your grandfather's razor looks to be in quite good condition and I think it will clean up nicely. You may want to think about how far you want to go on the restoration, starting with a cleaning and light overall blade abrasive cleaning all the way to a full restoration of both the blade and scales. The razor looks like it may have a slight frown (the razor's edge is not straight but has a subtle curve being thinner in the center) so I would suggest having someone with a lot of skill to hone it including re-shaping the blade's edge. As mentioned, Doc226 is very good and is in southern New England. I believe he will also do a restoration on the razor if you wish.

You have gotten some great advise I think. A Tony Miller strop is a great product and very fairly priced IMO. I like the horse hide / linen combination but he has several different kinds of strops and pre- strops (a piece of fabric usually used to clean and warm up the blade before stropping on leather).

I believe Griffith hones using a Vermont Green slate as a finisher. Not sure if he routinely uses tape or not.

As others have said, if you do decide to try honing, you should try and learn on razors you do not care about as there is a learning curve. But that entire subject is a multi- forked rabbit hole from which many just do not escape, and an virtually limitless opportunity to spend mone.... wait, I mean opportunity to acquire shaving related products and learn much.

Best of luck going forward! It can be rewarding as well as exasperating so if you do not drink alcohol perhaps you might want to think about starting.....

 

[sanookd]

Yes! Sorry for omitting that, I live in Vermont.

Doc226 is a stones throw from you in Those Island!

 

[Eastcoast30]

Matt at Griffith has done some regrinding on a vintage Thiers Issard of mine. It had been abused. It came back with a perfect bevel and a nice finish.

 

[Steve56]

Alfredo, aka @Doc226 will fix you up.

 

[KW Driver]

Griffin will do various, or… changes up his edges. I got a Thuri edge on one from him… 2-3 years ago.

For the OP, getting a Tony Miller is indeed as good as you’ll ever need. I’d personally start with a cheaper strop that most of us nicked up learning how to do the thing. Once you’re done nicking it up, step up from there, or break out the good strop.

I started with a Whipped Dog and I’m thankful I did

 

[Frank Shaves]

I hope that my use of the verb to cut and strop in the same sentence did not scare you, @GreenMountainBarber. I should have used the word nick. Like most, I nicked my first Tony Miller strop - a veg tanned value strop - a few times as I was learning to strop. Another benefit of Tony's strops is he sells parts, so after your stropping improves you should be able to replace the leather component.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

I talked to Tony and ordered the oil Brindle strop. I also ordered a lesser quality strop to hone my skills on.
I’m hearing your suggestions when you recommend getting another razor to practice honing on. If their is any suggestion for a basic older razor company/model that is recommended to learn up keep on?

 

[Slash McCoy]

Pretty much any known vintage brand is fine for a second razor. Mainly I recommend sticking with hollowgrounds initially. They are much easier to hone for a beginner. Some of the best values for your money are vintage American razors made in the first 35 years or so of the 20th century, the golden age of American straight razor mass production. Ontario, Geneva/Genco, Union, Little Valley, and many others were churning out a lot of razors and they made so many that they are still common, and priced accordingly. Just look for razors with no cracks or big chips or serious pitting or any pitting at all on the bevel, no crazy malformed disfigured blades, particularly no heel hook and no frown, and you should be fine. Good deals go fast and so it can be hard to catch one, but you could look on the BST forum here for one being sold by a member. Members have a lot on the line, reputation-wise, and won't misrepresent a razor. Shave ready is a plus, even though you intend to practice honing on it. Your first ventures into honing should be refreshing an edge that you yourself have dulled with normal use. That's your gateway drug. That is what you will mostly be doing. You only need to set the bevel and run the full progression ONCE with any new or new to you razor, if that. But after a month or two of shaves, you will probably need to touch it up a bit on a nice finisher.

If there is any doubt, feel free to ask for an opinion here on a seller or on a razor found online. You can't post links to live auctions, but Buy It Now listings on fleabay or other sites can be linked in posts. Ebay is full of liars and cheats, and people who are selling stuff that they know nothing about. Let's see... has a "handle", has a blade, yeah it's SHAVE READY! LOL! "Shave Ready" is used in far too many listings by people who don't even shave with a straight razor and so have no clue about what the term even means. But there are a few good sellers. One that I have bought from is april7th1989. Another that I know only by reputation but should be good is johnloc1 and actually I believe both are members here. Most any good seller who can be trusted to deliver on the "shave ready" promise, are either members here or are known here or to other forums. It is a pretty small community.

When you think you are ready to try your hand at honing from scratch, you might want to get an unhoned Gold Dollar P-81, AKA "1996", or the very slightly more up-market 208 model. Unhoned, because honing pretty much triples the price of these cheap razors, and you will already have your good razor to shave with, and nobody I can truly recommend is honing and selling them, anyway. Maybe UK fleabay seller Jacky Walsh, who puts at least a usable edge on them but nothing approaching a Method edge. Get them directly from Chinese resellers instead and you can pick them up cheap, though you will be waiting a few weeks to get it. No biggie. May as well get three or four, actually. There. Now you absolutely don't have to worry about "damaging" one of them. Work with one until it is either a good shaver, or totally destroyed, then work on the next one. These are cheap, no frills razors, bottom of the barrel cosmetically speaking, but the steel is good and there is plenty of it. You can always pretty one up with a little grinding and polishing, and new scales. Have a look at the threads for the annual Gold Dollar Modification Competitions. Some real works of art have been made out of those ugly duckling Chinese razors. If you have several of them, you can fearlessly do your worst and if you mess one up, kay serah. Most guys do destroy one or two when they are entering their first GD mod contest. Just remember to always wear your protective gear so you don't put an eye out or something.

If you really want to get out not just on a flying start with honing, but go straight to the finish line in just one or two attempts, jump in the deep end of the honing pool with The Method. The trick to getting perfect edges early on like that, is reading the main thread from end to end, then the threads linked in the posts of that thread, also from end to end, and following the directions exactly, precisely, 100%, absolutely without fail, overlooking not one single detail. Trust me, if you are willing to do that, you will achieve honing greatness in only one or two attempts. You can freestyle it and maybe in a few years get edges almost as good, but instead of spending a hundred bucks or so, you will have several hundred, even a few thousand invested in stones and other equipment. The Method is not only quick to deliver good results without a long learning process, but also very cheap, especially if you take the recommended lapping film route instead of stones. The threads are LONG, but The Method has evolved quite a bit since the threads were begun, so you need the backstory of the first posts, but you also need to read to the end to see the improvements and refinements. There is NO NEED to be satisfied with so-so edges or even pretty good edges when you can have science fiction crazy horror movie sharp edges that still shave comfortably. The Method doesn't teach you how to hone. It tells you exactly how to hone. There is no guess work. As much subjectivity as possible has been removed from the equation. You are given very few options or choices and so no opportunity to do something wrong. Learning takes time. Doing the thing does not take much time at all, hours instead of years. To use an analogy I have used many times before, learning to hone is like going to art school for several years and finally being able to paint a picture that you aren't ashamed to hang on the wall. Following The Method is like doing a paint by the numbers kit. No art school and no talent required, just stay inside the lines and use the number paint that the area calls for. No decisions. No choices. Do it according to instructions and then enjoy the nearly instant gratification. A lot of beginners start with The Method and then after they have created a few tree-topping edges, they branch off into other styles of honing, and that is fine. But they start in on those other styles with the confidence and knowledge that they picked up while Method honing, and so learning to hone on fancy rocks is not nearly as frustrating, and there is always a fallback to compare the stone edge to.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

@Slash McCoy I will absolutely take your advice on researching and using the “method”. It seems like the way to go based on the support in this forum. I’m very excited to start building my honing blocks.

 

[rbscebu]

@Slash McCoy I will absolutely take your advice on researching and using the “method”. It seems like the way to go based on the support in this forum. I’m very excited to start building my honing blocks.

Great to hear. I started by using the Method; burr method, lapping films and diamond pasted balsa stropping. Being a slow learner, I didn't have a great shaving edge until my second try.

After taking about ten SR's from bevel-set to finish using the full Method, I dropped using the burr method and now all I need is my eye and a good strong light source to know what I need to know about my bevel setting. Later films were dropped out and now it is just whetstones (synthetic) and the diamond pasted balsa.

 

[Slash McCoy]

@Slash McCoy I will absolutely take your advice on researching and using the “method”. It seems like the way to go based on the support in this forum. I’m very excited to start building my honing blocks.

You won't regret it. A Method edge is nothing at all like a professional edge or a stumbling around in the dark amateur edge. It might not be as fun, or as interesting, or as challenging, as rubbing your razor on rocks and using the force and becoming one with the stone and channeling your inner honemeister, but it works right away, and for chimp change. It shows you what is possible, and when you first start messing with Jnats or more exotic nats, you will have a benchmark for sharpness and comfort to aim for.

 

[GreenMountainBarber]

I asked wether the spine was taped from the vendor and he replied, “
Yes I will have honed it with a layer of tape on the spine. I am partial to this tape from Lowes as I have found it durable and leaves no residue on the blade: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-66-ft/1000121731
But the Super 88 tape from 3m would be a fine substitute.”
Would i continue to use tape with the balsa method? I read somewhere in those 64+ pages that you don’t use it with a hollow blade, but I can’t recall what the consensus was for a wedge blade.
In the meantime, I’m going to grab a notepad and reread all the info whilst taking notes (which I should have done in the first place.)
Cheers!!