R41: Are we Going Crazy?

[PGHChris]

First, I apologize if this has been brought up recently, but I feel the need to explore this issue a little more.

To make a long story short, based on some product descriptions from West Coast Shaving, I was inclined to contact them regarding which head was on their white handled R41 (technically an R102, but its an R41 head) - the so called "2011" or the "2013" version. The gentleman that I spoke with seemed ready to swear on a stack of bibles that there was absolutely no difference between the two. He informed me that the information he had received directly from Muhle was that the "2013" head doesn't exist. Apparently, Muhle says that this is strictly a rumor, and that there has been ZERO change in the design since they came out with the "2011" R41 head.

The reason this perplexes me is because I've seen, first hand, the difference between the two. I have a 2011 R41 and my dad has a 2013 R41. I've compared them side by side and there is a NOTICEABLE difference between the two. In addition, I've seen a number of comparison photos that show a clear difference, and there have been countless threads on B&B, seemingly from people who either own or are intimately familiar with the two models. So, are we all going crazy? Obviously a reputable vendor such as WCS isn't going to try to steer us in the wrong direction, so why would Muhle tell them that there is no difference whatsoever between the two "supposed" styles? I'm not sure what to think about all of this; I'm really hoping someone can shed some light on this issue.

 

[DrAwkward]

This has been the WCS party line for some time now, which they got directly from Mühle. BTW, WCS is selling the 2013 version.
If you want real confusion, read this thread:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/385055-R41-version-confusion
I don't think anyone still has the 2011 in stock.
Mühle has since fudged a bit on it's earlier denials:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/387808-Muhle-sorta-confirms-R41-2011-2013
... and some more fun reading:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/382379-Muhle-R41-2011-vs-R41-2013

 

[Maxime D.]

Clearly not the same

 

[Sunflake]

I own both! There is a distinctive difference! How do I know you might ask? I don't reach for the styptic pencil anywhere near as often with the 2013. That's how I know. LOL

 

[PGHChris]

Man, I KNOW that they're different - I've seen both side by side several times. I just don't understand why vendors are speaking riddles about it. I just read the threads Dr. Awkward posted above; my brain hurts, haha.

 

[Avincenty]

I also had a similar conversation with them, with two people. I finally asked them to please tell me when they had received the stock, something i asked on my first email. Finally they replied that it was fresh stock, so the latest variant.

 

[pejay66]

Mine came in the mail today. Looking forward to shaving with it in the morning.

 

[mistercitizen]

I wouldn't go crazy about it. You've seen the differences yourself, and you know that they are different. I wouldn't worry about what a possibly misinformed vendor might say. I'm not saying that the vendor is lying or doesn't know what they are talking about in general, but the two heads are about as obviously different as you can get. You don't even need to take any measurements with calipers or a micrometer..... you can see that they are different with the naked eye.

Be sane my friend!

Ben

 

[clayglen]

+1 or the fire extinguisher. Oooohhh the burn.

I own both! There is a distinctive difference! How do I know you might ask? I don't reach for the styptic pencil anywhere near as often with the 2013. That's how I know. LOL

 

[Eathvy]

I have heard that the so called "2013" head actually came out in the autumn of 2011. That is why some places like WCS call it the 2011 head. When we talk about the 2011 head we are referring to the pre autumn 2011 head. At least thats what I heard.

 

[Senshi]

They are definetly different. There is no debate about that.

I think that people across the forums started calling them 2011 and 2013 when they may not have been the years they were distributing them.

If you hold a "2011" by the head the top plate and base plate are almost perfectly flush with each other on the sides. If you have a 2013, then the top cap protrudes out a little further than the base plate. That's how I know which one is which when I choose them without a blade. The other obvious was is the blade exposure, the 2011 is so much greater than the 2013.

 

[DrAwkward]

It is not that complicated. WCS is simply parroting the official Mühle line that no changes were made to the R41 head. We all know it isn't true, but poor WCS has stayed true to what the manufacturer told them.
The same message is in the WCS description of the R41.
http://www.westcoastshaving.com/Muhle-R41-Double-Edge-Safety-Razor-Open-Comb_p_334.html
Even Mühle has backtracked, but WCS is stuck with the old party line.
Don't sweat it. WCS has the 2013. No need to fret about it.

 

[Badger Bill]

Yea don't sweat it. WCS has been…. confused, shall we say?….. about this issue for quite some time now. I don't see them coming around anytime soon about it either. Bottom line is: they sell the 2013.

^^^^^^ I see the Doc beat me to this in the post immediately above.

 

[Barto]

Here's my story. I had a 2011 R41 that I eventually sold. It was simply too harsh no matter what angle of attack I used. However, I kept reading the threads about the 2013 R41 and I wanted to try it; so, I ended up buying one from WCS and have been shaving with it ever since (4-days straight w/a feather blade). IMHO they had to have made a change. I wish I could articulate it better; however, it seems I have found the aggressiveness w/o the blood bath in the 2013 R41. The end cap covers more of the razor tab than I remember as well, which is a good thing as far as I am concerned. I am hoping this will be the everyday close shaver I have been chasing.

 

[mastershake]

i bought both the ones i had from shaving.ie chris was awesome and def has the newest versions.

 

[Flask]

Clearly not the same

[/Q
I always thought I had the 2011, now I am not sure.
Any chance of measuring those so I can check mine. UOTE]

 

[Haegar]

Apparently, Muhle says that this is strictly a rumor, and that there has been ZERO change in the design since they came out with the "2011" R41 head.

The differences are just within manufacturing tolerances. ​

Clearly not the same

 

[mos6502]

The differences are just within manufacturing tolerances. ​

It is possible that somebody working from drawings could make such a difference when producing the tooling - after all what looks like a big difference in a much larger than life photo isn't that big in real life, and the width of the base plate is not exactly a critical measurement. Muhle's view might be "same design - same razor" even if new molds were made.

But one wonders why new molds would be made if not to change the razors - the molds can't be that old compared the other models they make.

Edit: has anybody noticed any differences in any of the other Muhle products?

 

[mastershake]

i also attest to them being different 100% i have owned both and they shave different for sure.

 

[Peter_A]

The top plates are the most noticeable difference to me. There is way more blade exposure on the 2011. I didn't even notice the base plate length difference, until I saw this thread, but I check both of mine, and sure enough, the 2013 is longer (and covers more of the blade tabs).

Here are some measurements, from a Shave Nook thread:

Cap Weight 2011: 11 grams
Cap Weight 2013: 13 grams

Cap Height 2011: 41.18 mm
Cap Height 2013: 42.04 mm

Cap Width 2011: 18.54 mm
Cap Width 2013: 19.89 mm

Baseplate Weight 2011: 15 grams
Baseplate Weight 2013: 16 grams

Baseplate Height 2011: 41.26 mm
Baseplate Height 2013: 42.23 mm

Baseplate Width 2011: 24.99 mm
Baseplate Width 2013: 25.20 mm