Questions about using a shavette ATG

[Olajidebt]

Hello dear shave lovers.

Maybe some of you could clear up my questions. Since some time(beginning of August) I started shaving with a shavette, feather blade. I can't really shave more often than each 3-4 days, that's how slow my beard grows. I shave between 20-40 minutes, 5 minutes of which are WTG and XTG. The rest of them is ATG. It's a bit strange. I figured out the best angle for ATG is 90 degrees(spine "pressed" to my face), basically the shavette flat on my face, otherwise it starts to tug. BUUUUT after I do it like this, then I shorten(?) the angle, less than 90 degrees, then it doesn't tug or jump but but I still hear A LOT of feedback. The most funny part is, that the "fool's pass" is the easiest part for me, I get no irritation there, only on my neck. Basically I go ATG at least 3-4 times each spot on my face. My question is this. Is it normal to do so many ATG passes, is it normal to tug like that on the first pass unless the shavette is flat on my face? Thank you all in advance!!!

 

[lightfoot]

So what I’ve done before is just make sure that I’ve gotten as close as possible WTG 1st even if this means extra passes. Another consideration is to decide whether or not going ATG is really healthy for your skin type. I tend to be selective with ATG...

 

[Olajidebt]

So what I’ve done before is just make sure that I’ve gotten as close as possible WTG 1st even if this means extra passes. Another consideration is to decide whether or not going ATG is really healthy for your skin type. I tend to be selective with ATG...

I can't get as close as possible on all the plases WTG, but even in the places I can if the angle isn't 90 degrees it skips, very strange...

 

[sanookd]

Hello dear shave lovers.

Maybe some of you could clear up my questions. Since some time(beginning of August) I started shaving with a shavette, feather blade. I can't really shave more often than each 3-4 days, that's how slow my beard grows. I shave between 20-40 minutes, 5 minutes of which are WTG and XTG. The rest of them is ATG. It's a bit strange. I figured out the best angle for ATG is 90 degrees(spine "pressed" to my face), basically the shavette flat on my face, otherwise it starts to tug. BUUUUT after I do it like this, then I shorten(?) the angle, less than 90 degrees, then it doesn't tug or jump but but I still hear A LOT of feedback. The most funny part is, that the "fool's pass" is the easiest part for me, I get no irritation there, only on my neck. Basically I go ATG at least 3-4 times each spot on my face. My question is this. Is it normal to do so many ATG passes, is it normal to tug like that on the first pass unless the shavette is flat on my face? Thank you all in advance!!!

I’m not sure you’re understanding the concept of angle.
If you’re attempting an ATG pass starting at the base of your neck going north and the spine is against your neck you practically have 0 degrees angle. When you go north the blade should almost be flat against you’re skin. If you put the blade at a 90 degree angle you would be perpendicular to your neck and you’d slice yourself.
Barely lift the spine of the razor off you’re skin. When it barely starts cutting you have your angle for an ATG pass northbound.It is a very shallow angle, almost flat really. And use very little pressure. That is imperative!

 

[McBlade]

Every pass you make will knock your stubble down a little more. Your low angle pass seems to be shortening the hair enough that you can get away with a higher angle on the next pass.

Personally I hardly ever try to go against the grain with a shavette or straight (maybe on my neck where you can't avoid it). Just one WTG pass is enough for a SAS or, if I feel like it, another XTG pass will give me a nice CCS-DFS.

 

[Olajidebt]

I’m not sure you’re understanding the concept of angle.
If you’re attempting an ATG pass starting at the base of your neck going north and the spine is against your neck you practically have 0 degrees angle. When you go north the blade should almost be flat against you’re skin. If you put the blade at a 90 degree angle you would be perpendicular to your neck and you’d slice yourself.

Yeah I was thinking of a different position of the 180 degrees, anyway, yes 0 degree angle.

Barely lift the spine of the razor off you’re skin. When it barely starts cutting you have your angle for an ATG pass northbound.It is a very shallow angle, almost flat really. And use very little pressure. That is imperative!

That's the thing, even if I lift it a little bit it starts tugging, I have to go flat first, and then it cuts without tugging. Only after that first ATG pass when I lift it and create an angle does it stop tugging.

Every pass you make will knock your stubble down a little more. Your low angle pass seems to be shortening the hair enough that you can get away with a higher angle on the next pass.

Personally I hardly ever try to go against the grain with a shavette or straight (maybe on my neck where you can't avoid it). Just one WTG pass is enough for a SAS or, if I feel like it, another XTG pass will give me a nice CCS-DFS.

I understand why some people refrain from ATG, but that's one of the reasons I got into traditional shaving. Getting a BBS with very little aggitation. I got a close shave with a cartrige but my face got filled with pimples the next few days.... Before this year I shaved twice a year, and had a nice big beard

 

[sanookd]

Yeah I was thinking of a different position of the 180 degrees, anyway, yes 0 degree angle.



That's the thing, even if I lift it a little bit it starts tugging, I have to go flat first, and then it cuts without tugging. Only after that first ATG pass when I lift it and create an angle does it stop tugging.





I understand why some people refrain from ATG, but that's one of the reasons I got into traditional shaving. Getting a BBS with very little aggitation. I got a close shave with a cartrige but my face got filled with pimples the next few days.... Before this year I shaved twice a year, and had a nice big beard

If what you’re doing works for you just continue. Everyone’s skin, beard, etc are different. This is not size fits all. Everyone kind of starts from the same starting gate then do what you gotta do. IMHO

 

[SterFry]

What type of razor are you using? And have you tried some other blades?

 

[Furex]

The neck is generally the most sensitive part of the face, so there is nothing out of the ordinary there.

When you can get BBS on your neck with minimal/no skin damage then you've made it.

Is it normal to do so many ATG passes, is it normal to tug like that on the first pass unless the shavette is flat on my face?

Generally, the need for multiple, true ATG passes (not buffing or other clean-up moves), is a sign that the shave is not efficient enough, regardless of what razor you are using. The reasons could be several.

Angle control is one of most important aspects of shaving with a straight, and it sounds your technique is better on ATG passes than the other ones, where perhaps you're getting away with sub-optimal angles (no surprises there as WTG and XTG are less demanding).

Have some general tips:

1. Focus on stretching; don't over do it, nor forget about it. You might need some trial and error to find the best spots for placing your fingers.
2. To find the optimal angle, always begin with the razor's head flat on your skin; when you start shaving, slowly rotate the razor, so the blade edge approaches the skin, stop the rotation as soon as the blade engages the hair.

Stretching help aligns the hair so that the blade has an easier time cutting, while focusing on a shallow angle will place the blade itself in the sweet spot for doing its job.

If you use a steep angle instead, a sharp enough blade will still be able to cut, but less efficiently, with a shaving mechanic that is often described as scraping. Steep angles should only be resorted to, if it's impossible to do otherwise.

Since you have trouble shaving frequently, you can practice your angle on body hair.

 

[Olajidebt]

The neck is generally the most sensitive part of the face, so there is nothing out of the ordinary there.

When you can get BBS on your neck with minimal/no skin damage then you've made it.



Generally, the need for multiple, true ATG passes (not buffing or other clean-up moves), is a sign that the shave is not efficient enough, regardless of what razor you are using. The reasons could be several.

Angle control is one of most important aspects of shaving with a straight, and it sounds your technique is better on ATG passes than the other ones, where perhaps you're getting away with sub-optimal angles (no surprises there as WTG and XTG are less demanding).

Have some general tips:

1. Focus on stretching; don't over do it, nor forget about it. You might need some trial and error to find the best spots for placing your fingers.
2. To find the optimal angle, always begin with the razor's head flat on your skin; when you start shaving, slowly rotate the razor, so the blade edge approaches the skin, stop the rotation as soon as the blade engages the hair.

Stretching help aligns the hair so that the blade has an easier time cutting, while focusing on a shallow angle will place the blade itself in the sweet spot for doing its job.

If you use a steep angle instead, a sharp enough blade will still be able to cut, but less efficiently, with a shaving mechanic that is often described as scraping. Steep angles should only be resorted to, if it's impossible to do otherwise.

Since you have trouble shaving frequently, you can practice your angle on body hair.

Thank you for the advice. That's the thing. Your number 2 advice. I don't even create an angle. I just lay it flat on my face, otherwise with even the most miscro rotation I literally scrape my face, you can see the skin that it scraped....

 

[Olajidebt]

What type of razor are you using? And have you tried some other blades?

Proraso shavette. For the most part feather, but afterwards I tried Astra and it was muuuuch better, but still similar problems.

 

[Furex]

I just lay it flat on my face, otherwise with even the most miscro rotation I literally scrape my face, you can see the skin that it scraped....

On a flat-ish surface like the sides of one's face, if the razor's head was truly flat, then the blade wouldn't even be in contact with the skin...

...unless you are applying WAY too much pressure?

In which case back off: you only should be applying enough pressure to establish good, solid contact with the skin, and nothing more than that.

Pressure will drastically increase the chance of irritation and skin damage. Worse, if the blade skips or jams, you might cut yourself, badly, too.

What do you mean by "you can see the skin it scraped" ?

If you're doing dry detail work, it's normal for dead skin to shed. This is normally hidden when the skin is wet and/or lathered up.

If it's anything else, it may be further indication that you are using too much pressure.

 

[steveclarkus]

Sounds like a pressure problem to me. Just keep the angle 20 to 30 degrees and pretend to wipe the soap off with very little pressure. Stop thinking about bbs. Try a Derby blade; not as sharp as a Feather bit more comfortable and perfectly good. The more you shave, the better it will get. It is a self learned process and takes some time. Just shave and don’t fret about it and it will come.

 

[DarkSpy]

For me it's a combination of two factors, and people already referred to:

1) You're are doing beard reduction, by the time you open up the angle most of the hair growth it's already gone, so it's easier.
2) Depending on the geometry of the shavette, when you shave with the razor flat to the face the blade might not be at it's most efficient angle, but it's more comfortable for the first ATG pass. When you open the angle the blade might be making more contact with the skin/hair so it's cutting more.
Extra thought:
3) I tend to do short strokes when going ATG, seems to be both more efficient and comfortable and avoids or lessens that tugging sensation.

 

[Ron R]

My question is this. Is it normal to do so many ATG passes, is it normal to tug like that on the first pass unless the shavette is flat on my face? Thank you all in advance!!!

I'm sort of new to Shavettes myself and my Kai style AC shavette, I use a Kai Protouch guarded blade and happy with this combination. My normal routine with this razor is WTG + ATG+ (ATG pickups) seems to work for myself with usually no irritation or weepers and I receive a DFS,BBS range and I'm very happy. The guarded blade is so nice because it helps reduce nicks & cuts from operator error technique.(The chin area is were a get tugging regardless how sharp the blade is.)

Have some great shaves! Stay & think safe in these times!

 

[5whiskey]

If you just started back shaving (more than twice a year), then your face literally must become accustomed to it. To a degree. The ATG pass is literally the toughest on your face. My suggestions are to decrease pressure, try and intermediate xtg pass, or to make your second pass more of a halfway in between xtg and atg. Sort of a chin to top of the ear stroke. That works well for me and I get BBS with no irritation in 2 passes using this method. Of course, YMMV.

 

[Olajidebt]

Haven't used a shavette since December to be honest, ever since I got my Henson razor. My goal was to achieve daily BBS shaves and with eh help of the Henson razor I was able and am still able to accomplish that. But even with the Henson I have this problem ATG(partially), only feathers and nacets work for me. And even they get stuck when going ATG, my hair literally provides a counter to the blade and stops it from cutting, almost like the hairs don't want to be cut, even with a feather blade... Again with the Henson it's partial and I got the hang of it, so now it's all good, but with a shavette it was hell, might give it a go though in the near future

 

[Old Hippie]

my hair literally provides a counter to the blade and stops it from cutting

I get that. My solutions vary.

If I'm using a barber straight, I take narrow passes and just work across the area in gradual reduction. TWO WTG passes helps!

If I'm using a safety, then one solution is to really ride the cap at first pass ATG so that you're just barely cutting. That will accomplish gradual reduction.

My preferred safety technique is to use a helical slant. Because helical slants present a range of edge angles, you can find the angle that works for the situation as you come to it.

The other point, which you seem to have, is to change blades a bit more often if you're trying to cut stubborn hair. I can get by with mid-range blades like the Astra SP in safeties, slants and 1/2 DE barber razors and Kai Captain Titan Mild Pinks in AC safeties and barber razors.

O.H.