Questioning Everything | One Superior Edge | One Superior Shave
- Thread starter Chan Eil Whiskers
- Start date
It all boils down to personal preference and prejudice. I’ve tried all the grails from all the countries and if I had my druthers it would be a pre war US or Solingen full or extra hollow grind. Are they better for everyone prolly not. A close second are the small kottens in Solingen today such as Wacker Aust, Revisor etc.
I do know they I would own a bog stock 6/8 Dovo best over any 1/4, 1/2 or wedge, no matter the brand or maker.
I like TIs and most French razors even with their little peculiarities and somewhat wonky bevels and geometries over any modern 1/4 or 1/2 hollow made today. Are they better objectively? Who knows.
We could argue subjectively all day long and I would still have those opinions.
People have preconceptions of quality. Ducks are the best...made by Dovo. Same with post war Pumas. Most Japanese western grinds like Feather were started by German ex pats but had Japanese ownership.
Trying to figure out who made what, especially post WWII, is like trying to get into Area 51. A brand you may praise in this period may have been ground by a maker you have convinced yourself is subpar. It’s like arguing over your favorite flavor of ice cream. Ya like what ya like.
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I do know they I would own a bog stock 6/8 Dovo best over any 1/4, 1/2 or wedge, no matter the brand or maker.
I like TIs and most French razors even with their little peculiarities and somewhat wonky bevels and geometries over any modern 1/4 or 1/2 hollow made today. Are they better objectively? Who knows.
We could argue subjectively all day long and I would still have those opinions.
People have preconceptions of quality. Ducks are the best...made by Dovo. Same with post war Pumas. Most Japanese western grinds like Feather were started by German ex pats but had Japanese ownership.
Trying to figure out who made what, especially post WWII, is like trying to get into Area 51. A brand you may praise in this period may have been ground by a maker you have convinced yourself is subpar. It’s like arguing over your favorite flavor of ice cream. Ya like what ya like.
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Genco was the most common I saw when I lived in Tennessee/KY, that’s what piqued my interest originally.
Now in Texas there was a strong German/Dutch immigrant population but I haven’t noticed a trend in brands really.
The one trend that really jumped out for me when I was looking for barbers estates was that every single one I looked through which must’ve been 7 or 8 complete untouched collections and more that had been molested... every single one had a Coticule. Like One or more Cotis, and even more prevalent than “barbers hones”...
Now in Texas there was a strong German/Dutch immigrant population but I haven’t noticed a trend in brands really.
The one trend that really jumped out for me when I was looking for barbers estates was that every single one I looked through which must’ve been 7 or 8 complete untouched collections and more that had been molested... every single one had a Coticule. Like One or more Cotis, and even more prevalent than “barbers hones”...
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Henckels are the most common razor that I’ve seen in barber estates.
I think it depends on region, timeframe and who trained them. I have seen a lot of barber boxes and own three from family members. They had a lot of G&F, Genco and Ern. In Europe or other locals of the US it may be completely different depending on availability and what local barber supply houses carried.
and for good reason, their razors and knifes are fantastic. I have a 4&5/8 and shave very close without issues.
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I've got a couple from those now ancient barber supply houses, Lewis Strenger and Leo Kochs. These were sourced from German and American makers.
I do not think I have seen a more graceful and beautiful lines on a razor as the American maker J.R. Torrey #136. John Holler sourced some beautiful German razors they etched for American hardware firms.
If you consider the countries manufacturing during the mid to later 1800's, you'll see German, English, and American companies well represented. I suspect these makers are what American professionals used.
We've not even mentioned the excellent razors made in Fremont, Ohio. What about Challenge cutlery? I have one that shaves beautifully.
I do not think I have seen a more graceful and beautiful lines on a razor as the American maker J.R. Torrey #136. John Holler sourced some beautiful German razors they etched for American hardware firms.
If you consider the countries manufacturing during the mid to later 1800's, you'll see German, English, and American companies well represented. I suspect these makers are what American professionals used.
We've not even mentioned the excellent razors made in Fremont, Ohio. What about Challenge cutlery? I have one that shaves beautifully.
We are supposed to have consensus as to the "best razors". Lol.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
I’ve used most everything, Gold Dollar to Swedish. My preference is for hard(er) fine-grained steel ground very thinly at the edge, regardless of the hollow. I prefer half hollow to full hollow. I have a low tolerance for mis-ground, warped, twisted blades, etc.
Just about any Japanese razor from the 1950s-1960s fits, but my favorites are Tanifuji-made razors, Swedish or Silver Steel. The scales could be cheap though. All the Filarmonicas that I’ve tried are fine razors, beautifully ground. Some folks don’t like the scale colors, but I’ve never seen Filly scales warped, shrunken, or decomposing and destroying the razor. The Filly wedges had ‘knobs’ on them that fit into the scales so the wedges never rotated and hung out over the edge of the scales. Vintage French razors work for me, even the old framebacks (they often don’t look like much but some of them are superb shavers), but Le Grelot and Le Jaguar are wonderful, but getting harder to find. Swedes are great if you can find and afford the wider blades, especially pre-war razors in ivory or tortoise. If you’re into narrower blades, there are plenty of fine Swedish razors at reasonable prices.
I’ve avoided American razors for the most part just because most were 5/8 round points and finding wider razors in good condition is surprisingly difficult. At the time most of the name-brand American razors were sold, we were in to mass production for a largely agrarian nation, and nicely finished and scaled razors were a rarity. Many had flat ‘popsicle stick’ scales. There’s a book that describes this, ‘Sheffield Steel and America’, which describes the difficulties that English makers had competing with the cheaply made American razors once mass production took hold. I’ve marveled that Case made so many finely made and finished pocket knives (until the 1970s) yet their razors by comparison were rather cheaply made in materials and finish. In today’s market, I don’t think that you’ll find any Case razor that would bring 1/10 of what a desirable Case knife would bring.
I avoided a lot of the vintage English razors because many are not ground that well, and the prices are/were high for what they are, and I’m not into wedges. The steel wasn’t that hard and the edges weren’t very thin. German razors of the early 20th century are better made but also high for some of the the more desirable brands. I’ll agree that that the German razors made for the American market were some of the better ones available during that period, especially those made between the wars.
Having said all that, I shave with a Gold Dollar fairly often. I use them to test hones, match up nagura, and have a set that I’ve selected for the lack of warps, bends, and related GD defects, and there’s usually one or two of these in the checked bag for air travel. They shave well enough but in stock form are a bit sensitive to the finisher which is fine for testing. You can certainly make them better, better scales will surprise you. Thinning the spine helps. But in the end you still just have a Gold Dollar.
Just about any Japanese razor from the 1950s-1960s fits, but my favorites are Tanifuji-made razors, Swedish or Silver Steel. The scales could be cheap though. All the Filarmonicas that I’ve tried are fine razors, beautifully ground. Some folks don’t like the scale colors, but I’ve never seen Filly scales warped, shrunken, or decomposing and destroying the razor. The Filly wedges had ‘knobs’ on them that fit into the scales so the wedges never rotated and hung out over the edge of the scales. Vintage French razors work for me, even the old framebacks (they often don’t look like much but some of them are superb shavers), but Le Grelot and Le Jaguar are wonderful, but getting harder to find. Swedes are great if you can find and afford the wider blades, especially pre-war razors in ivory or tortoise. If you’re into narrower blades, there are plenty of fine Swedish razors at reasonable prices.
I’ve avoided American razors for the most part just because most were 5/8 round points and finding wider razors in good condition is surprisingly difficult. At the time most of the name-brand American razors were sold, we were in to mass production for a largely agrarian nation, and nicely finished and scaled razors were a rarity. Many had flat ‘popsicle stick’ scales. There’s a book that describes this, ‘Sheffield Steel and America’, which describes the difficulties that English makers had competing with the cheaply made American razors once mass production took hold. I’ve marveled that Case made so many finely made and finished pocket knives (until the 1970s) yet their razors by comparison were rather cheaply made in materials and finish. In today’s market, I don’t think that you’ll find any Case razor that would bring 1/10 of what a desirable Case knife would bring.
I avoided a lot of the vintage English razors because many are not ground that well, and the prices are/were high for what they are, and I’m not into wedges. The steel wasn’t that hard and the edges weren’t very thin. German razors of the early 20th century are better made but also high for some of the the more desirable brands. I’ll agree that that the German razors made for the American market were some of the better ones available during that period, especially those made between the wars.
Having said all that, I shave with a Gold Dollar fairly often. I use them to test hones, match up nagura, and have a set that I’ve selected for the lack of warps, bends, and related GD defects, and there’s usually one or two of these in the checked bag for air travel. They shave well enough but in stock form are a bit sensitive to the finisher which is fine for testing. You can certainly make them better, better scales will surprise you. Thinning the spine helps. But in the end you still just have a Gold Dollar.
- Thread starter
- #211
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Honed but not by the vendor. Just my work...
Yesterday's efforts with these two razors were successful.
I have continued to take the Tanifuji (pictured) back to the Double Convex Ark finishing stone hoping to achieve a glorious edge. After this morning's shave I think the edge is there!
Yesterday I honed the Spalding (made by Tanifuji) which had recently arrived in the mail with a decent looking edge. I took it to both sides of the DCA (and that's all I did). Its edge is excellent, too.
Japanese steel is the bee's knees.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Yesterday's efforts with these two razors were successful.
I have continued to take the Tanifuji (pictured) back to the Double Convex Ark finishing stone hoping to achieve a glorious edge. After this morning's shave I think the edge is there!
Yesterday I honed the Spalding (made by Tanifuji) which had recently arrived in the mail with a decent looking edge. I took it to both sides of the DCA (and that's all I did). Its edge is excellent, too.
Japanese steel is the bee's knees.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Ironically, during the post ww2 years and before Demming’s manufacturing theories were embraced, made in Japan was not a term of endearment.
Honed but not by the vendor. Just my work...
View attachment 999262
Yesterday's efforts with these two razors were successful.
I have continued to take the Tanifuji (pictured) back to the Double Convex Ark finishing stone hoping to achieve a glorious edge. After this morning's shave I think the edge is there!
Yesterday I honed the Spalding (made by Tanifuji) which had recently arrived in the mail with a decent looking edge. I took it to both sides of the DCA (and that's all I did). Its edge is excellent, too.
Japanese steel is the bee's knees.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Mmmmmm... keep in mind too, the steel handling evolved regionally with the honing methods commonly available. If the convex ark cuts the harder steel ok then no harm no foul, but this can also be a gateway drug to the JNAT world. I would never push that on anyone though, that rabbit hole is dark and full of terrors. I’d say I haven’t gone far down that hole myself, my rock pile of JNATs is mostly woodworking stones that cross over pretty effectively.
True story, my 96yr old step-grandfather-in-law went on a good rant last Christmas about how China entered the market so low that it purged our collective memory of Japan’s low years.
The Chinese musical instrument maker Eastman, makes wonderful stringed instruments. I’ve had three of them and they’re as good as Martin or any American mass produced brands.
I’ve had three Subaru’s. My first car was a ‘73 GL.
I'm a W. Edwards Deming fan.
I kinda like this quote of his: "If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing."
I'm a W. Edwards Deming fan.
I kinda like this quote of his: "If you can't describe what you are doing as a process, you don't know what you're doing."
Most here can’t seem to describe their honing process .....
- Thread starter
- #218
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Most here can’t seem to describe their honing process .....
Sure they can:
My honing process.
- I pick my best stone and/or stones.
- I hone until I'm finished.
See. It is easy to describe the process.
Happy shaves,
Jim
I like how this thread has blown up
. In the end there is nothing else to do but discuss razor steel and honing haha. Going back to the original post: I am still wondering if I can duplicate this experience, to shave with an edge that seems to be so far beyond my current best effort that I would be truly impressed. I think there is no better test than when one individual, with all his habits tries a new edge. I am setting myself up for a similar experience as the OP. I want to more or less max out what I can do at the moment with my stones and shaving technique. After, I will go for a diamond paste level refinement, similar to the edge that baffled the OP (I will use 'the method' for this).
Today I felt I am close to the limit of my current equipment. I had an amazing shave from my best razor (Zertone, cheap Chinese stuff, but a step up from Gold Dollar, check it out), that has only seen a chosera 1k, a BBW and the 'amazon tsushima'(dry honing on this one!) and of course leather. Zero irritation and quite smooth I dare say baby smooth in large part and where it isn't largely my technique is to blame. Much better than I can do with a shavette and in the beginning I could only get decent shave with a shavette. I don't think I can do much better than this (and by the way, my honing process is exactly like Jim describes it: I just hone until I'm done in a zen way), so now I feel ready to go for a method edge. I will use the same razor. It will take me some time to assemble everything I need (also going on vacation now), but I really look forward to experiencing that first shave with it! Will it be like the shave that started this thread?
. In the end there is nothing else to do but discuss razor steel and honing haha. Going back to the original post: I am still wondering if I can duplicate this experience, to shave with an edge that seems to be so far beyond my current best effort that I would be truly impressed. I think there is no better test than when one individual, with all his habits tries a new edge. I am setting myself up for a similar experience as the OP. I want to more or less max out what I can do at the moment with my stones and shaving technique. After, I will go for a diamond paste level refinement, similar to the edge that baffled the OP (I will use 'the method' for this). Today I felt I am close to the limit of my current equipment. I had an amazing shave from my best razor (Zertone, cheap Chinese stuff, but a step up from Gold Dollar, check it out), that has only seen a chosera 1k, a BBW and the 'amazon tsushima'(dry honing on this one!) and of course leather. Zero irritation and quite smooth I dare say baby smooth in large part and where it isn't largely my technique is to blame. Much better than I can do with a shavette and in the beginning I could only get decent shave with a shavette
. I don't think I can do much better than this (and by the way, my honing process is exactly like Jim describes it: I just hone until I'm done in a zen way), so now I feel ready to go for a method edge. I will use the same razor. It will take me some time to assemble everything I need (also going on vacation now), but I really look forward to experiencing that first shave with it! Will it be like the shave that started this thread?
