Question - Troubleshooting unsuccessful hair removal?

[WalkingSongs]

Hello, and well wishes to you all!

Question: How would you troubleshoot a recurring DE shaving situation of minimal/no hair removal WTG, and patchy/stubbly hair removal ATG (and XTG)?

Issues are consistent across various shaving angles (with varying degrees of unsuccess). Occurrence of irritation, but no occurrence of injuries or in-growns.

I am most suspicious of two possibilities:

1. The blade is not well matched for my skin/hair – but I’m not sure what could be a better fit from what I have (picture attached)
2. Lather technique should be adjusted – but I’m not sure what would need to change

Yes, everyone’s mileage varies, and I won’t know for sure what works best for me until I try things, but I am wondering about your experiences and input that could potentially help me make a more informed decision. My goal right now isn’t perfect hair removal…I would like hair removed though

If it might be helpful, I have provided additional information in the subsequent post.

Thank you so much! Best regards your way

 

[WalkingSongs]

Equipment

• Pre-Shave: warm shower; jojoba oil
• Razors: Henson “AL13 Medium” (moving forward, referred to as Henson) or Gillette “Good News Disposable Razors (without lubricant strip)” (Gillette)
• Blade: RK made for Henson “Shaving Stainless DE Razor Blades” (RK)
• Brush: Fendrihan “Travel Shaving Brush Silvertip Fibre” (Fendrihan)
• Soap: Sir Henry’s “Black Tie No. 13 Unscented Shaving Soap” (SH)

Trial Results (summarizes consistent outcomes from a minimum of three times per combination, used on assorted regions of arms and legs)
Trials with the Fendrihan yielded similar results to their counterpart trials without

• Gillette + warm water: great quality results; none/minimal irritation
• Gillette + SH: best quality results I’ve ever had; none/minimal irritation
• Henson-RK + warm water (yes, I know): not great, but presentable results; minimal/moderate irritation
• Henson-RK + SH: barely presentable results; moderate irritation

Abridged Trial Notes
Strokes XTG were similar to ATG except effective to a lesser degree

Henson-RK outcomes across the board, so far:
Regarding the angles, there was not too much play here, I think because of the razor head design

• Steep angle ATG - best overall for Henson-RK
• Neutral angle ATG - irritating and stubbly
• Shallow angle in any direction - posed injury risk (I have not yet figured out how to make the head not ‘skippy’ in this position)
• Any angle WTG - barely cut any hair
• Neutral angle WTG - most irritating overall for Henson-RK

Lather description: Shiny creamy, feels slick, and the razor glides easily through it. Not runny, but wouldn’t want to put it in an upside down bowl. It stays on the skin without disappearing, though I do need to rehydrate later areas. I apply a layer thickness such that the skin is slightly visible underneath it through some opacity.

In the next post, if it could be helpful, I’ve shared the current state of my thought process.

 

[WalkingSongs]

My Current Troubleshooting Thoughts

Variables I least suspect as primary cause (that is, I think the most significant improvements here would be subsequent to other adjustments):

• Preparation - I’m not sure what more/differently I could do with this as an isolated change; also, I do not think cold water prep would be a good match for me to attempt
• Angle - I’ve tried a variety of angles, with my wrists at varying degrees of stiffness, so I’m not sure what more/differently I could do with this as an isolated change
• Pressure - very confident that I’m not applying too much pressure; slightly more pressure did not yield better results and posed injury risk
• Passes - after some early experiments, not done more than four passes over an area/shaving over an area; short strokes
• Razor - the Henson is what it is, and it is highly regarded
• Brush - the Fendrihan doesn’t seem to be a bad quality, and it works fine for the Gillette lathers

As a beginner though, I realize I could definitely be missing something, so I’m not discounting the possibility that change has to start here.

Variables I most suspect as primary cause:

• Lather

I don’t know what to make of the fact that I’m getting better results with Heson-RK + warm water than with Henson-RK + SH, but the Gillette + SH have been my best shaves ever. From what I can understand, the lather technique and end product for cartridge/disposable razors are similar to those needed for DE razors? If that’s correct, then given the successful rhythm I’ve discovered for myself with the Gillette + SH, I haven’t yet been able to figure out how lather technique with the SH would be a primary cause issue.

Also, considering that I can successfully shave my head using lubricant strip-free disposables with either just water and nothing else, or dry with just jojoba oil – plus it’s possible for me to shave my legs dry with nothing…my guess would be that my skin/hair type is likely more forgiving on the lather front.

However, that’s not to say that plenty of room for improvement isn’t a main factor here – which is why I wonder if I’m missing something more specific to/less forgiving in DE shaving that gets the blade actually cutting the hair.

• Blade

I suspect this to be the most likely issue. From what I’ve read, hair not getting cut could be an indicator of a blade problem. It also looks like using a steeper angle can be a way to compensate for a blade being too mild.

If this is a matter of the system being too mild, then I would not want to go the shim route. Instead, I’d like to switch to a different blade in the inventory that I already have. Feedback on what might be solid next steps here would be appreciated, if this could be a useful approach.

 

[WalkingSongs]

My current inventory of other blades. If changing blades is a solid approach, I would like it to switch to something I have.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Cutting the hair is really a three-dimensional geometry problem. The blade is what cuts the hair. Any decently sharp blade will cut the hair, but it must be oriented correctly or things don't get cut. Lather does not cut hair. It softens the beard and reduces friction and irritation. If you had to, you could shave with water and Ivory soap.

If you are not getting the hair cut, you will need to find the correct "solution" to your face's geometry using whatever razor you have to work with.

Are you sure you know what direction "the grain" really is for each area of your face? It is different between people, though there are some common patterns. You may have swirls or cowlicks, where the hair grows in whorls. Try letting your beard grow for a few days and shoot some snapshots of your whiskers so you can visualize it clearly.

The Henson has a pretty narrow effective shaving angle. Outside of that angle, little or nothing gets cut. Try listening while shaving in a quiet room. You will be able to find the angle by experimentation based on the sound of whiskers being cut.

There is a temptation to apply more pressure to compensate for not having the correct angle. It's a bad habit that people get from using cartridge razors and disposables. This may lead to irritation and razor burn. DE shaving is different. You should try to keep the pressure at a level where the blade is following the skin but not much more than that.

You should expect to improve with practice. Don't worry if you don't achieve perfection at first. You will develop muscle memory with practice. It's like sports or playing a musical instrument. You have to practice and then it becomes automatic for you.

 

[rbscebu]

@WalkingSongs, seriously, have you considered a straight razor, either traditional or shavette type? You are then on total control of all your shaving parameters and not reliant on a mass-produced tool where you can't even see the razor's edge on your skin.

Don't be afraid. People have been regularly shaving with a straight razor for hundreds of years without major injury. The chances and severity of injury from shaving are about the same with both straight and "safety" razors when you are starting out.

Traditional Straight Razor Shaving Instructions for Beginners

The attached are instructions for beginners in the gentlemanly art of traditional straight razor shaving. Updated instructions will be posted in this thread as they are developed. To keep this thread reasonably clean and easy to read, please post any comments/suggestions in this thread and ask...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[WalkingSongs]

Cutting the hair is really a three-dimensional geometry problem.

Thank you so much, I really appreciate your detailed reply! These are all excellent and super important points for me to remember as a beginner. Once I transition away from disposables for my head, the grains will certainly get far more adventurous, haha. I did notice that the Henson has rather set shaving angles. The only orientations I've found so far that did actually cut the hair were neither comfortable nor particularly effective. I'm not sure how to remedy that My concern is that don't want to get good at shaving badly...and my trial subjects (legs and arms) can only take so much of the current shaves I'm delivering

 

[NorthernSoul]

...I did notice that the Henson has rather set shaving angles. The only orientations I've found so far that did actually cut the hair were neither comfortable nor particularly effective. I'm not sure how to remedy that My concern is that don't want to get good at shaving badly...

The Henson has a different effective angle than most other DE razors. The handle needs to be a bit more towards the horizontal, IIRC. That might not feel natural at first. The Henson does not have much blade feel, so that makes it more difficult to tell exactly what's happening.

One thing that a lot of us have found helpful is to pick one combination of razor, blade, soap and brush and just shave with that combo for 30 days or so (the "fixed four"). This can speed up the learning process since you can just focus on getting consistent results with that one combo. No distractions.

Maybe just drop the pre-shave oil for awhile. Just take your shower and wash your face with mild soap before your shave. Using the Henson/KAI combo or Henson/Personna Med Prep combo with your favorite soap and brush seems like a nice choice. Keep it simple and just focus on getting a comfortable shave that is fairly close. Better closeness should come with time and practice.

 

[WalkingSongs]

have you considered a straight razor, either traditional or shavette type

I really appreciate this! I replied in a different thread in the SR forum, because I do have some questions from serious consideration, and it seemed to be more relevant to post there.

Use the Henson/KAI combo or Henson/Personna Med Prep combo

Very much on board with controlling the variables! I just need to find a combination that is sustainable for the duration of the learning curve, haha. Those blade choices seem promising, I will try switching to one of those, thank you so much And will keep the Henson handle position in mind.

 

[APBinNCA]

Replied to your other thread, didn't see this one first. Welcome to B&B!

 

[MountainBear]

I shave my head with a Henson medium. The angle on the Henson is different than a cart. It is a great razor but perhaps not a great first DE. Give it more time. Henson has a long handle for a DE. EJ 89 is a great beginner razor - it comes with Green Derby blades.

Keep the shower; shave legs and pits in shower; skip pre-shave oil for now; (Poraso pre shave cream I used when learning but it’s not necessary); I would hold off on the RK and Kai; try the Persona; skip the Sir Henry’s; skip the water; use hair conditioner or a non-forMing type shave cream like Trader Joe’s Mango Honey (cheap at Trader Joe’s) on your legs that might allow you to see if you are cutting hair; also can run other hand over what the razor has passed over this should give feed back if you are cutting hair well. Leaf is also a well regarded body and head razor. Use the Gillette as needed until you get the process down. Remember it should be fun and feel good.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Angle, angle, angle.

Ever cut yourself with your razor? If so, it is capable of cutting below skin level, and so should be fully capable of cutting at skin level. There are some complexities though, such as concave face areas, or areas where there isn't much support under the skin. These can be addressed with skin stretching, puffing cheeks out, etc.

If you want to practice getting the angle right everywhere, after a shave, remove the blade. Using the blameless razor, "shave" the problem areas with the lightest skin contact possible. You are aiming to barely feel the razor, but you DO want to feel both cap AND comb on your face at the same time. If only one of those is in contact, adjust accordingly.

Pay attention to the angle, and see how that varies to what you were doing during the shave. You will most likely start with both in contact, but one or the other will lift as you move the razor. That is the primary cause for why you are leaving stubble that you need to correct. Other factors might help, but not until you nail that angle.

For further hints and tips, read the first four posts of this thread...

The Wanderer's Guide To DE Shaving

Part One I was self taught with a DE razor 25 years ago, and had to figure out a lot of things the hard way. I learned a lot of things over the years, but wish there had been an experienced DE shaver who could have taught me the basics early on. This guide is offered so that you can get to...

www.badgerandblade.com

... which will take you through all the essentials of the learning curve, and help you diagnose and correct any problems that occur.

Oh, and one more thing... when you put the blade back in, use even lighter skin contact than you did before. You'll notice that's a recurring point I try to drive home in that guide.

Good luck

 

[WalkingSongs]

Welcome to B&B

Remember it should be fun and feel good.

Good luck

Thank you for the feedback, all! I will see shortly what happens next

 

[Lord NSIC]

As others have said, you're dealing with too many variables, and at this point, you don't know what you don't know. Pick one razor, one brand of blade, one soap and brush (pre-shaves are "meh"), and do the same prep the same way, and use them the same equipment every time you shave and do that the same way for a period of time (ideally a month's worth of shaves). During that month you will notice your results improving because your technique is improving and you won't probably even notice it. Then you can start tweaking the variables because once your technique is down, you can shave with any DE or SE razor or blade because even though there are more aggressive/mild razors and sharper/milder blades, and you can use any of them because you will know your beard and you can then adjust your technique to compensate. Then when you get bored with DE/SE shaving, move to SRs and work on that technique because it's so much more challenging--so much so, that when you go back to doing a DE shave, "it's like a walk in the park Kazansky."

 

[Esox]

Angle, angle, angle.

Ever cut yourself with your razor? If so, it is capable of cutting below skin level, and so should be fully capable of cutting at skin level. There are some complexities though, such as concave face areas, or areas where there isn't much support under the skin. These can be addressed with skin stretching, puffing cheeks out, etc.

Thats been my experience with a patchy shave.

There are so many aspects to a good shave they can be difficult to list and/or explain. Theres much to be said for learning a single razor, blade, brush and soap. A "Fixed Four" will teach a lot in the course of a months time with the same tools.