Question. Honing, stone vs. paste.

[Skeggi]

Hello,

I am about to purchase my first straight razor. I have open questions regarding honing and would be grateful for help in resolving them.

Specifically, I want to have the necessary equipment to

1. get a factory-new razor into shaving condition,
2. keep it there.

For various reasons, I like the idea of using paddle strops with abrasive pastes rather than traditional hones. Consider the following configuration:

2 double sided strops treated with 9, 1, 0.5 and 0.25 micron diamond abrasives. (e.g. the type offered by Classic Shaving)

Will this cut it?

Furthermore, are the 0.25 and 9 micron redundant? I gather that the 0.25 is probably overkill (depending on taste). I seem to recall that 1 micron paste is equivalent to an 8000 waterstone (I could be mistaken). Since the workhorse of honing seems (from looking at some posts) to be 4000/8000, I gather that something coarser than 1 micron is probably needed.

Also, say that I order a straight razor, and have it sharpened by a pro. For how long would I be able to keep it sufficiently sharp using only 0.5 and 0.25 (or wold the combo 0.5 and 1 make more sense?)

Or is my preference for pastes misguided? Are there any serious advantages with using a waterstone?

Any suggestions are more than welcome.

Many thanks.

 

[AFDavis11]

Good questions. Im not sure about your answers. I think there are some advantages to stones. I think you could keep a razor running for a long time on .5 paste. I think the limfac would be making a mistake. Overhoning and such. I really do like atleast a barber hone. But back to the discussion. Some guys go about a year with .5.

9 seems to be a little out of place, you didn't mention a 3m. Interersting. I've never tried to use a 9. And you think .25 and 9 are redundant? Do you mean unneeded? Redundant, no I don't think so.

I think I would lean more to .5 and .25 but .5 alone would probably be my workhorse. I'm not really a great paddle guy though. I'm really a stone guy.
I find that pastes aren't really great for heavy honing work. Since your attacking the edge from the back of the bevel a low grit isn't really popular with me. I'd lean toward .5 and .25 and find a cheap barber hone on Ebay. But there are lots of ways to attack the problem.

 

[jscott]

if you wanna make it even easier on yourself go with a bench strop(bench hone) from tony miller.

its thick, comes 3inch x 10inches (smooth smooth) means leather/leather double sided. he will even pre-paste them for you.

get a 1.0um and a 0.5 micron double sided. will keep you going for a very long time.

Tony Miller's 2sided Bench Strop - 22$

~J

ps. i think the 1.0micron is a tad bit higher grit then 8k side of the norton. i'd go with the 1.0 and 0.5 as my combo choice

 

[mparker762]

The norton chart indicates the 8k norton is equivalent to 3 micron amplex diamond paste (norton and amplex are part of the same company). The coarser pastes are ok for some rough work, but the stone does a much better job of that sort of thing.

IMO one reason the Norton is so fast for it's grit rating is that it's grit rating is quite optimistic. Where the 8k Norton uses a 3 micron abrasive, the 8k Shapton hone uses a 1.8 micron abrasive.

 

[BOGARTUS]

I use:
Norton 220/1000- ( taped spine) for real real dull edge

Norton 4000/8000 -(taped spne) for real dull edge

Hand America system- amplex paste- 1.0/.50/.25 for brush up
red latigo - daily honing

 

[randydance062449]

1000 grit for removing old oxidised steel and nicks.
4000 grit for developing the bevel
8000 grit for refining the bevel to a shaving sharp edge
Belgian coticule, Escher, Chinese 12000,1.0 micron paste, 0.5 paste, 0.25 paste.... all can be used for further refinement of the edge, your choice.


Just my two cents,

 

[jnich67]

I'll second JScott's recomendation on the Tony Miller bench strop. Its much easier to work on a wide surface when you're a newb- trust me. I'm using it with the boron carbide and chromium oxide pastes (1.9M and .5M?). This combo along with Norton and Thuringen stones seem to give me the most consistent results.

If your razor is initially honed by a pro, I would think the bench strop as configured above (or with similar diamond paste) would keep you in business for many months - assuming you don't do too much damage with bad stropping

Jordan

 

[Tony Miller]

A similar question was asked over on SRP just yesterday I think. Pastes will buy you LOTS of time but eventually a real honing is likely needed. The general rule is a stone or hone is needed on any new razor but once honed I think you could easily go 6 to 9 months with just careful use of abrasive pastes on some type of paddles or bench hone systems, mine, Hand Americans or the Thiers Issard paddles. They differer in width and construction but all work the same way more or less.

The real workhorse pastes will be the 1.0 and 0.5 grits. 3.0 may be nice to avoid going back to a Norton on occasion and the wetting/soaking thing but for long term use the stone is a bit better at this grit level. Likewise if I were leaving one out it would be the 0.25 as well. Some feel they need this fine an paste but while I was initially "wowed" over it I found the edge a bit to delicate and much for frequent use of the paddle was needed to keep it up. Maybe the possibly over honed edge just broke down faster.

So, for a 2 sided choice, paddle or bench, wide or narrow I'd go 1.0 diamond and 0.5 chromium. On a 4 sided setup or pair of 2 sides I go with what I have been calling the "Fanatic Special" 3.0 diamond, 1.0 diamond, 0.5 diamond (for hard and stainless steels) and another 0.5, chromium this time for a better polish and smoother edge than diamond would provide. I would tend to use either of the 0.5 sides for maybe 10 passes or diamond first, chromium second for no more than 10 total. Doing 10 on each would most likely overhone.

I still like leather over balsa as it gives me more "feedback" or sensation of the edge cutting than balsa does. The balsa works as effectively but feels very slick and lacks the sensation of it really cutting.

I'm still also a fan or narrow paddles as that is what I am used to...1 1/2" to 2" works nicely for me but then again I like 2" hones as well. The X pattern just comes naturally for me. Most guys seem to like the wider ones though but I feel they are more awkward to use unless in bench form laying flat on a table. For those who like wider hand held paddles my new ones are about a week away as we are settling on which type of wood, mahogany or maple will be used.

In the end though a hone or sending to a honemeister will be needed once or twice a year.

Tony

 

[Thebigspendur]

I've never been much of a paste fan myself. The way I look at it though everyone thinks ah ha I'll just use pastes and then I never have to learn to use a hone. That's faulty thinking. Eventually you will need to use a hone. The pastes just buy you time so since you will have to use the hone and will have to learn to use it why not just use the hone period? Also if you buy any Eboy specials you will need a few hones. Of course if you only have a razor or two and are content with sending them out for honing and paying someone every few months then pastes may be your ticket.

 

[Tony Miller]

Bigspendur,
In many ways I agree but not everyone wants the complete experience. For many the entire process, finding razors, restoration, honing, etc.. is what they are after. I was into that for a long time but between my day job and business I simply enjoy the shaving end of it now and even send my own stuff out. once in a while I do enjoy sitting down with a hone and working on a razor but much of the year some quick swipes with a paddle are quick and easy and I mail off the rest.

For many, if they needed to learn to hone to get started they would never start at all. My first start with straights was nearly 20 years ago before all this easy knowledge was available. I could not get my razors sharp and quit the whole thing. Years later I tried a pasted TI paddle and got a shave ready edge I could keep sharp. For me it was a turning point. Yes, I did eventually learn to hone but in the process I made many a butterknife out of a razor <g>
I still use my 4 sided pasted paddles exclusively to maintain my edges. Every pre-honed razor I sold until last July was done completely on a paddle as well starting with 9.0 and 6.0 micron pastes.

Tony

Tony

 

[gglockner]

A paddle strop with 3,1 &.5 should take care of a new razor for a very long time. There have been a few razors that I liked the .25 on, but I use it very sparingly. Not sure about the 9. I would think it would be time to get a hone if you need that high of grit.

Glen

 

[Thebigspendur]

I think to get involved in straight shaving means your buying a ticket to the complete experience. I don't mean the restoration part or collecting I mean just the things you need to do, the basic stuff.Its like going on a rollercoaster and deciding midway in the ride you want off. All the honing and stroping is just part of that experience. If someone wants to feel what a straight is like but doesn't want to get all that involved then they have the feather types to use and they can bypass all that in that way. If they just want the wetshaving experience they can use a DE. Its natural for people to want the easy way out and to just buy the razor and start shaving but its just not the way it is.

I guess if you have the means you can just send out the razor every time it needs to be honed like rich guys did years ago but you still have to strop it yourself be it daily stropping or touchups on a pasted strop.

I've said this many times on the other forum and truly think that before starting to use a straight you should master honing and stropping not after. You wouldn't go out and buy a new car and after taking delivery first obtain a drivers license. I thing obtaining the razor and then first figuring out how to hone and strop is just *** backwards. I realize most of us learned to do this the hard way without help and guidance and looking back I wish I had first got some "junk "razor to practice with before buying a quality razor and messing it up learning. Most start without truly realizing what is involved in straight shaving and that is a mistake and usually leads to walking away from it for many.

I don't want to make it sound like this is some kind of elitist thing or anything like that, it certainly not but I just don't see how you can think of straight shaving without the maintainance stuff that goes along with it.

Just my humble opinion.