Question About Ralf Aust Steels

[Vaporstang]

Anyone have opinions or experience on Ralf Aust steels? I am considering ordering a Ralf Aust razor. The razor material has the options: "Normalstahl" and "Edelsatahl". As far as I can tell the normalstahl is carbon steel and edelstahl is stainless steel. The stainless version is a little more $$

Waaaaaay back in the day from early in my career tool design experience, (high carbon) carbon steel would be better for this application. But I know that stainless steel has made great strides in heat treatability, hardness, workability, etc. since then. Plus my Buck 39 Salient (stainless steel) is excellent. Thoughts?

[Edit] I know the SS will have better corrosion resistance. I guess the questions are about edge retention and honing characteristics.

 

[JohnEzra]

I’m personally not a huge fan of Stainless Steel razors, but I’m sure there are some good ones out there.

I feel like I get slightly better, longer lasting edges out of non-stainless blades with less effort sharpening. With some extra work and attention to detail I’ve been able to get some great edges in stainless stuff, but they’re still just a touch behind the carbon steels.

As always, YMMV.

 

[rbscebu]

@Vaporstang, you would be best to contact Ralf Aust and ask him what stainless steel he is using.

Of course it depends on the type and quality of the stainless steel that he is using. As it would need to be heat treated, the SS will be martensitic. Most stainless steels will be harder than high carbon steels (HCS) which generally means that they will require more time when honing.

Japanese VG10 SS is highly regarded in knife circles but is not considered so is SR circles due to it not holding an edge for long when honed to the required much more acute bevel angle. There is an exception here if VG10-HZ SS is used as it has a stronger inter-granular bonding than normal VG10 but VG10-HZ steel has to be specially ordered and made.

There is also a steel called "INOX" that is used by some European SR manufacturers. This steel is somewhat in between HCS and VG10.

One of the better stainless steels for SR's is a specialist Japanese steel called ACRO. This steel has a finer grain structure than HCS and VG10, a stronger inter-granular bonding than VG10-HZ and can attain a hardness in excess of 70 RHC. Again this steel is not common in SR manufacturer due to it's higher cost (about twice that of VG10) and limited availability.

 

[razorboi]

Ralph Austs are incredible razors, as many here can attest.
He is a small-scale, one-man-show in Germany who makes astonishingly affordable hand-made razors that are works of art, as well as arriving truly shave-ready, from one of the most accomplished hone-meisters producing to-day.
Working from stock Solingen blanks, he produces everything from spartan to extravagant bespoke cut-throats, and even the most basic is of the highest quality.
I could not recommend him more highly.
While he is not known for outrageous, jewel-encrusted museum pieces of stratospheric costs, he can fulfil most any desire one's purse can accommodate. He is best known for his unadorned but precision instruments that will last a lifetime.
As to carbon versus stainless, it's not just about corrosion resistance, hardness, edge retention, or honing characteristics.
It's primarily about the feel of a carbon steel blade as compared to a stainless when shaving.
Carbons are considered to be "softer" or more forgiving to the face, and many prefer them for that characteristic alone.
Only you can decide...and base it on personal experience.
Thus, I would suggest having familiarity with each kind before deciding upon which when commissioning a bespoke razor.

 

[rbscebu]

....
As to carbon versus stainless, it's not just about corrosion resistance, hardness, edge retention, or honing characteristics.
It's primarily about the feel of a carbon steel blade as compared to a stainless when shaving.
Carbons are considered to be "softer" or more forgiving to the face, and many prefer them for that characteristic alone.
Only you can decide...and base it on personal experience.
....

I disagree with on this point. Of my 40 odd SR's, about half are HCS and the rest stainless steel of various alloys. Some of my SR's are "identical" except for the blades' steel composition. If I take two "identical" SR's, one of HCS and the other of a stainless steel and hone them up similarly, I find no difference in feel between the two when shaving with either of them. I have no preference between HCS and SS "identical" SR's when shaving. Others may believe that there is a difference however, it is possibly more psychological.

From a honing perspective, a HCS blade is easier honing, meaning less laps required overall. This is followed by INOX, VG10-HZ and ACRO (requiring the most laps). This only matters to me once per blade as I only have to hone my SR's once in their lifetime (baring physical damage). All my SR's are maintained on a 0.1um diamond pasted hanging balsa strop after each shave. This also means that edge retention does not become a factor for me. Irrespective of the blade material, each SR only requires the same number of laps on the pasted balsa after each shave.

With stropping I find that, compared to the HCS blades, the SS blades require about 20% to 50% more laps for the same result. This can add up to 30 seconds to my overall shave time per day.

 

[JohnPS]

I would to see a SR made from ELMAX steel... might be a "gamechanger" to the SR market... though very pricy.

 

[rbscebu]

I would to see a SR made from ELMAX steel... might be a "gamechanger" to the SR market... though very pricy.

Interesting but great knife steel does not necessarily make even a good SR steel.

 

[JohnPS]

Interesting but great knife steel does not necessarily make even a good SR steel.

Straight razors are knives. Although not all knife steel are good for razors, true but there are many that are. I own many high carbon steel knives that can be used for shaving, from shiro-gami, aogami and others.

I grew up 3rd generation Chef with my bedroom above a kitchen and using knives whilst standing on milk crates as a child, cooking. Later I made my own wood chisels which I still have to this day, grinding the steel myself. I am decent at hand sharpening knives that I can use as razors and have used them on my face. Been wet shaving since I was 13, so over some 30 years. I've wanted to created my own knives and have seen them being made in Seki-City during one of my many trips to Japan.

My point, I'd like to see an Elmax razor...

 

[Multum in parvo]

Interesting but great knife steel does not necessarily make even a good SR steel.

Does this difference between HCS/stainless comes from the carbide size/distribution at the required RHC for SR?

How do „barely“ stainless steels like D2 do in this regard?

 

[JohnPS]

Ain't life grand.

 

[Tomo]

I have three Ralf Aust razors (so far). Two in Normalstahl (High Carbon) and one in Edelstahl (Stainless). The Edelstahl razor is stamped INOX on the tang. Full translation of the stamp is “Rust Free, INOX, Ice Hardened, Stainless Steel”. I honestly can not tell the difference between the two steels while shaving or honing.

The stainless model is a custom job and I quizzed Ralf about the difference before I bought it. Firstly he thinks that both are great shavers and says that he wouldn’t stock anything that he considered sub par. Ralf is an SR shaver himself. He says that the stainless is a little softer. Easier to hone but requiring honing slightly more often. The additional honing is the trade off for corrosion resistance in his opinion. The additional cost is the material cost which he passes on.

In practice I really can’t tell the difference. I touch my razors up fairly often (every 3-4 shaves). If you want to go months between honing Normalstahl may be better. If you live in a humid climate where extra corrosion resistance is important, I would buy the INOX Edelstahl without hesitation. It shaves just as well for me. There’s no trade off in shave performance or face feel with this metal.

I got stainless for my custom job because the razor will be more of a collectors item for me rather than a daily driver. For this application corrosion resistance was important. It might be a few generations before someone is game to use it. It really boils down to the application and which properties you value most.

 

[Vaporstang]

I have three Ralf Aust razors (so far). Two in Normalstahl (High Carbon) and one in Edelstahl (Stainless). The Edelstahl razor is stamped INOX on the tang. Full translation of the stamp is “Rust Free, INOX, Ice Hardened, Stainless Steel”. I honestly can not tell the difference between the two steels while shaving or honing.

The stainless model is a custom job and I quizzed Ralf about the difference before I bought it. Firstly he thinks that both are great shavers and says that he wouldn’t stock anything that he considered sub par. Ralf is an SR shaver himself. He says that the stainless is a little softer. Easier to hone but requiring honing slightly more often. The additional honing is the trade off for corrosion resistance in his opinion. The additional cost is the material cost which he passes on.

In practice I really can’t tell the difference. I touch my razors up fairly often (every 3-4 shaves). If you want to go months between honing Normalstahl may be better. If you live in a humid climate where extra corrosion resistance is important, I would buy the INOX Edelstahl without hesitation. It shaves just as well for me. There’s no trade off in shave performance or face feel with this metal.

I got stainless for my custom job because the razor will be more of a collectors item for me rather than a daily driver. For this application corrosion resistance was important. It might be a few generations before someone is game to use it. It really boils down to the application and which properties you value most.

Thanks for the information! This is kind of what I suspected. I already have a Ralf Aust 5/8 I got from BST, but was curious about the stainless version. I am going to order the carbon razor (6/8 Spanish point ) this time. Maybe in the future I will try one of his stainless ones.