Prop weapons & personal responsibility

[hairless wonder]

If folks avoid the behavior for whatever reason, the likelihood of litigation is lessened in any case.
If the behavior doesn't occur, criminal prosecution is moot.

I agree with you that it's probably (past) time that real guns were used in any set. For those who insist on using real guns for realism, there should be safety protocols that are strictly followed and penalties for not doing so--even if no injuries result.

As things stand, I suspect Alec Baldwin will end up being liable for the death of Ms Hutchins and the injury to Mr. Souza, but not because he was the one who discharged the weapon that harmed them. Rather, because he's a producer on the film and the film had a history of unintentional discharges as well as a record of safety concerns--including some that were so severe that experienced crew members walked off the set.

Still, that will likely be a civil, not criminal*, matter.

*The caveat here is I am entirely unfamiliar with New Mexico laws so I have no idea whether there may have been any violations of New Mexico criminal law here. I am basing my conjecture in my understanding of most American criminal laws requiring some sort of an intentionality in the engagement of a prohibited act. Here, I'm not seeing where there could've been an intentional act that was prohibited.

 

[luvmysuper]

Involuntary manslaughter doesn't require intent.

 

[Anu]

I can't believe we wasted four pages of bandwidth on this.

Most of us have empathized with Baldwin here, which I think speaks volumes about the members here. Most of us can empathize with the AD who felt "out of her depth" in her position. Then she should not have been in that position!

Look, people, what I was trying to get at in my post about the procedures used for hand-off of a pistol in the CIC of a naval surface vessel is that this is NOT rocket science. In fact, it is far from it, it is dirt simple. I think Phil is trying to get at the same thing (correct me if I'm putting words in your mouth, Phill). And @tankerjohn said it when he said "there are no accidental discharges, only negligent discharges." I've been preaching that to shooters I've coached for 30 years. To those of us familiar with the manual of arms, this is 'tragic' only insofar as it is so stupid and avoidable.

This.
Is.
Not.
Rocket.
Science.

To shooters. We don't need the Spanish Inquisition here. We don't need an episode of CSI to finish the "investigation". We don't need to make excuses for anyone involved because "they must feel horrible." We can judge them while still feeling empathy for what they must be going through ... through their own fault, though.

As a firearms enthusiast and coach of many years, I will tell any of you who are not experienced shooters, with all due respect, your opinions on this are not informed if you are trying to come up with ways to excuse this, or wanting to let those involved off with a wrist slap because they are inexperienced. This was easily avoidable, and that's why no matter how much we want to empathize with those involved, we cannot excuse it.

I'll say it again.

Good procedures were in place, they were ignored, there will be consequences.

And there should be. The fact that there were good procedures to follow, and the fact that production professionals walked off the set over safety concerns tells me all I need to know about negligence here. I only need a lawyer to explain to me if it was gross negligence or criminal negligence.

Sorry to sound harsh, here, but firearms safety understanding does not take a Ph.D level intellect. It's taught to military recruits all over the world fairly easily. I suspect it is difficult to teach to anti-gun elites who think they have a Ph.D level intellect, and all the 'safety training' is beneath them and a waste of their time. That is at least part of the reason people left that set. Real shooters never consider any safety training or safey procedures reviews a waste of time.

'Nuff said. I'll shut up now. As a shooting enthusiast who cringes every time I see an "Officer Friendly" shoot himself in front of school kids video on YouTube (no shortage of them, unfortunately), do I sound judgemental? Yeah, I do. No apologies for that.

You just wait a bit, JPL might just chime in.

 

[luvmysuper]

Let's cool down a while.