Price creep?

[luv2shave]

Fine has a different formula and a new Italian manufacturer for their soap, so that could have something to do with their price jump. I've been buying up pucks of the old formula.

Ultimately it's just soap. Razorock also has their soaps made in Italy and are the best bargain buys.

This applies to Razors too. CNC milled razors costing North of $200 is just trying to be in some elitist club.

Fine's finest cnc razor made in China is $165.
By that logic it should be only $65.

It'd time to face it- vendors are making money while their brands are popular and its a sellers market.

 

[mozartman]

Ultimately it's just soap. Razorock also has their soaps made in Italy and are the best bargain buys.

This applies to Razors too. CNC milled razors costing North of $200 is just trying to be in some elitist club.

Fine's finest cnc razor made in China is $165.
By that logic it should be only $65.

It'd time to face it- vendors are making money while their brands are popular and its a sellers market.

No argument from me, but if CNC milled razors were mass produced, though they still would cost more than plastic ones, they would cost a lot less than they do now. The bottom line is, if you want small batch specialty or custom products, in most cases you will pay a high price for them. As The Captain said above, the upside is, a greater choice in what is readily available.

 

[Wogus]

Just discovered that Proraso is no longer selling their Single Blade shave soap in the honkin' big 9.5 ounce bags, which I could pick up for $20, delivered to my door. Proraso is now packaging that soap in 3.5 ounce tubes which go for $12 on the Proraso USA site.

Let's crunch the numbers!

$2.10 an ounce in the honkin' big bag, versus $3.25 an ounce in the tube. That's what, a 65% pricing increase?

*shakes fist at Proraso*

 

[SHAVEWIZARD420]

The price rise is probably the reason for all the new artisan lines/bases. You just can’t hike prices 25%+ plus on the old base.

EXACTLY!

The artisans had to change the soap base to justify the price increase. If they sold the exact same soap/scent yet up'd the price people would be all upset like they were when Fine aftershaves went from $15 to $20. Since a few newer artisans started charging $25+ for a soap, now many other artisans have jumped on board and following suit to increase price. Some of the newer ones are charging CRAZY prices for a shaving soap ($50+) that is not that much different ingredients from a soap half the price. It's become a growing trend and has allowed many wet shavers to want to sit back and enjoy the soaps that have accumulated in the den, while others are chasing the latest and greatest. Its all personal preference and there are some top tier newer artisans out there.

 

[karacha]

Join us in the new Williams Mug Soap Thread!

The price seems to be steady - just under $1.50 per puck. It's the same old base too.

 

[RayClem]

EXACTLY!

The artisans had to change the soap base to justify the price increase. If they sold the exact same soap/scent yet up'd the price people would be all upset like they were when Fine aftershaves went from $15 to $20. Since a few newer artisans started charging $25+ for a soap, now many other artisans have jumped on board and following suit to increase price. Some of the newer ones are charging CRAZY prices for a shaving soap ($50+) that is not that much different ingredients from a soap half the price. It's become a growing trend and has allowed many wet shavers to want to sit back and enjoy the soaps that have accumulated in the den, while others are chasing the latest and greatest. Its all personal preference and there are some top tier newer artisans out there.

Some, but not all, of the more recent soap formulations are worth the increase in prices, at lease based on my evaluations and my preferences. I do not mind spending $25-30 on a soap if it performs supperbly and has a pleasing scent. However, not all higher priced soaps achieve that, even some costing more than $30.

 

[Slock]

They have to make a living. Its a niche market these soap makers are trying to make a go of it. I wonder if that is how Amway turned into what it is. They thought how the hell am supposed to make a living selling soap to my neighbors. So they thought up a multi marketing scheme.

 

[SHAVEWIZARD420]

Some, but not all, of the more recent soap formulations are worth the increase in prices, at lease based on my evaluations and my preferences. I do not mind spending $25-30 on a soap if it performs supperbly and has a pleasing scent. However, not all higher priced soaps achieve that, even some costing more than $30.

I agree and I have purchased soaps that are on the higher end price wise. Most of the time the performance does match and deliver some superb shaves with complex interesting scents.

 

[Dominic]

I'm curious how much you paid for the Cella and the Proraso. I bought a tub of Cella for about $8 but I buy the tubs of Proraso for $5 each (from Marshall's and TJ Maxx)...

I didn't know those stores carried shaving items. I'll have to visit.

 

[chipped ham]

My own educated suspicion is that in the cases of some makers, they are taking advantage of the growing popularity of their products. I noticed that with a couple of them which I won't name, their prices went up as much as 35-40% in around two years (or an even narrower time frame for some), and it began happening before COVID, so I don't think it's due to that or any of its effects on the economy. I look dimly on this phenomenon so will be making future purchase choices accordingly.

this. I think I have an idea (as I’m sure others do) which artisan(s) have had the most drastic increases, and this is my feeling too. Especially if theyre Very “engaged” on social media, or other forums, and can see the temps for the hobby rising. Sucks because there are a few that I sooo badly want to pull the trigger on, but just can’t because of price while Stirling continues to produce amazing products, and keep the same prices.

 

[Owen Bawn]

Join us in the new Williams Mug Soap Thread!

The price seems to be steady - just under $1.50 per puck. It's the same old base too.

When I started using Williams in 1974 it could be found for .29 cents. Now it's $1.50. That's a 400% increase. I think.

 

[TexOkie Shaver]

Not to mention that the croaps tend to be more expensive and last less time than a hard milled soap. So not is it more expensive per ounce, it is used up faster, for a higher cost per shave!

I’m a MWF addict, but it’s $14 a puck when you find it on sale. I might just give Williams a whirl when I get rid of some of these other croaps and soaps that are filling up my drawer.

 

[RayClem]

this. I think I have an idea (as I’m sure others do) which artisan(s) have had the most drastic increases, and this is my feeling too. Especially if theyre Very “engaged” on social media, or other forums, and can see the temps for the hobby rising. Sucks because there are a few that I sooo badly want to pull the trigger on, but just can’t because of price while Stirling continues to produce amazing products, and keep the same prices.

Supply and demand drives pricing of everything. As artisan shaving soaps have gained popularity (at least some artisans), that enables them to increase prices. However, there are also been price increases in some of the ingredients used by the artisans to produce their soaps. Shortages of supplies have been common over the past year due to the pandemic. Shortages and/or price increases have occurred on many levels: microchips, propane, gasoline, lumber, restaurant meals, etc. are only some of the items experiencing significant price increases in recent months.

 

[chipped ham]

Supply and demand drives pricing of everything. As artisan shaving soaps have gained popularity (at least some artisans), that enables them to increase prices. However, there are also been price increases in some of the ingredients used by the artisans to produce their soaps. Shortages of supplies have been common over the past year due to the pandemic. Shortages and/or price increases have occurred on many levels: microchips, propane, gasoline, lumber, restaurant meals, etc. are only some of the items experiencing significant price increases in recent months.

while what you said is definitely true, it’s not like every artisan/Company are incurring the same kind of Mark-ups, which is why I feel some are taking advantage of the popularity of the hobby. I don’t like to call anyone out, but I know it’s been mentioned the sudden increase on the cost of soap from Fine Accoutrements ($25/soap). That said, they are well within their rights to do as they please, and people are allowed to choose whether to purchase or not. Everyone is allowed to spend as they deem right for them. However, I’m having a hard time pulling the trigger on anything north of $25-$30/soap.

 

[Jan Sobieski]

When I started using Williams in 1974 it could be found for .29 cents. Now it's $1.50. That's a 400% increase. I think.

I'll prefer a 400% price increase over 47 years to a 40% price increase over 2 years any day.

 

[TexOkie Shaver]

I'll prefer a 400% price increase over 47 years to a 40% price increase over 2 years any day.

My son in law uses Williams with his straight razor. How does Williams compare to Mitchell’s?

 

[Jan Sobieski]

while what you said is definitely true, it’s not like every artisan/Company are incurring the same kind of Mark-ups, which is why I feel some are taking advantage of the popularity of the hobby. I don’t like to call anyone out, but I know it’s been mentioned the sudden increase on the cost of soap from Fine Accoutrements ($25/soap). That said, they are well within their rights to do as they please, and people are allowed to choose whether to purchase or not. Everyone is allowed to spend as they deem right for them. However, I’m having a hard time pulling the trigger on anything north of $25-$30/soap.

Yeah, I hear you. I've begun to resist. At some point it's just too much to pay for soap, and I refuse to reward/encourage the gouging that's clearly going on in some corners.

 

[12stones]

There are quite a few factors in play when it comes to making and pricing artisanal products like shaving soap. One of the main ones that I haven't heard yet are economies of scale. Smaller artisanal brands have to buy in smaller quantities which means that their cost of goods sold is higher than a big brand out of the gate. Look at coconut oil. For a small maker, they may have to buy CO at the 30lb case price ($4.02/lb) because they don't have the customer base or demand to use up a 420lb drum of it ($2.87/lb). Multiply that across all of the ingredients and supplies, and it's easy to see why that alone would account for the differences in price between an artisanal maker and a big brand. Add in the manufacturing factors such as automated equipment v. handmade, blah, blah... (NOTE: prices taken from bulkapothacary.com for example purposes)

Big brands have other advantages that come with their buying power like price locks listed within contracts that guard against raw material market fluctuations. Smaller brands can't get that, so when a vendor raises their prices the artisanal maker can either 1) choose to let the vendor's price hike eat away their profit margin, or 2) pass that hike onto the customer. Guess which one usually happens?

Also, the market dictates the price, right? So, let's play hypothetical here... If I'm making a soap that costs me $10 to make all in, standard profit margin norms would say I should charge $20 direct to consumer for that soap. But, if my soap is just as good as those soaps that are going for $25-30, then I can play it one of two ways: 1) charge $20 and hope I make my money through volume sales because I'm cheaper than the competition, but just as good; or 2) charge $25-30 to place myself within the same level as my competition and market myself well enough to still outsell my competition. Well, in the niche market of shaving soap, I can tell you that option 1 isn't the best way to go. Yes, option 1 meets my needs because I'm pricing it properly to cover my COGS and my profit needs, but it won't play out in the market because most consumers equate price with quality and prestige. My soap doesn't cost as much as the other artisanal brands, therefore it must not be as good. Big brands don't have that same problem because they have history to go along with their better economies of scale, price locks, manufacturing efficiencies, etc. Y'all know a $10 tube of Tabac is gonna be great, because it's been great for over 50 years.

Now this isn't to say that some makers out there aren't playing the game and reducing costs by making inferior formulations while raising their prices to increase profit margins, but that's where the market has to step in. If people stop buying those overpriced, inferior soaps, they'll either lower the prices, make the soaps better, or leave the market altogether. But, make no mistake, all of the soap makers are in it for money. Wouldn't you be?

 

[chipped ham]

There are quite a few factors in play when it comes to making and pricing artisanal products like shaving soap. One of the main ones that I haven't heard yet are economies of scale. Smaller artisanal brands have to buy in smaller quantities which means that their cost of goods sold is higher than a big brand out of the gate. Look at coconut oil. For a small maker, they may have to buy CO at the 30lb case price ($4.02/lb) because they don't have the customer base or demand to use up a 420lb drum of it ($2.87/lb). Multiply that across all of the ingredients and supplies, and it's easy to see why that alone would account for the differences in price between an artisanal maker and a big brand. Add in the manufacturing factors such as automated equipment v. handmade, blah, blah... (NOTE: prices taken from bulkapothacary.com for example purposes)

Big brands have other advantages that come with their buying power like price locks listed within contracts that guard against raw material market fluctuations. Smaller brands can't get that, so when a vendor raises their prices the artisanal maker can either 1) choose to let the vendor's price hike eat away their profit margin, or 2) pass that hike onto the customer. Guess which one usually happens?

Also, the market dictates the price, right? So, let's play hypothetical here... If I'm making a soap that costs me $10 to make all in, standard profit margin norms would say I should charge $20 direct to consumer for that soap. But, if my soap is just as good as those soaps that are going for $25-30, then I can play it one of two ways: 1) charge $20 and hope I make my money through volume sales because I'm cheaper than the competition, but just as good; or 2) charge $25-30 to place myself within the same level as my competition and market myself well enough to still outsell my competition. Well, in the niche market of shaving soap, I can tell you that option 1 isn't the best way to go. Yes, option 1 meets my needs because I'm pricing it properly to cover my COGS and my profit needs, but it won't play out in the market because most consumers equate price with quality and prestige. My soap doesn't cost as much as the other artisanal brands, therefore it must not be as good. Big brands don't have that same problem because they have history to go along with their better economies of scale, price locks, manufacturing efficiencies, etc. Y'all know a $10 tube of Tabac is gonna be great, because it's been great for over 50 years.

Now this isn't to say that some makers out there aren't playing the game and reducing costs by making inferior formulations while raising their prices to increase profit margins, but that's where the market has to step in. If people stop buying those overpriced, inferior soaps, they'll either lower the prices, make the soaps better, or leave the market altogether. But, make no mistake, all of the soap makers are in it for money. Wouldn't you be?

this is a good breakdown, and something that most probably don’t consider. I hadn’t until I starting communicating more directly with many artisans, and store owners alike (live in MI, and am in major striking distance to BOTH Maggards, and The Razor Company, and have been able to have MANY quality face-to-face conversations with Brad, and Jason). I can respect any makers decision as to why they would do so, but it’s head scratching to see such a disparity between the likes of, say, Fine, and Stirling (from strictly my POV as a consumer who’s adopted the Pokemon mantra of “gotta catch em all,” and applied it to shave soap/software). Again, though, as producer, put whatever price you’d like; I’ve no problems with it.