Pre-reformulation Williams: When?

[Topgumby]

I just snagged a puck of Williams that lists Sodium Tallowate as the first ingredient, different than the new puck that I got at a brick and mortar store...the package has a UPC, so it's no older than the late 70's, I think.

Williams probably went through many reformulations, but when did it cease to be an easy to lather classic tallow soap?

 

[poorieuser]

From CVS

Ingredients:
Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Water, Glycerin, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentatate, Fragrance, Titanium Dioxide

I always thought it was Tallow based. Unless they've changed since Ive been to the drugstore in the last couple months.

 

[Greybeard]

My current production package lists Potassium Stearate as the first ingredient and Sodium Tallowate second.

I've never tried a vintage puck of Williams, so I have no idea what the old one lathers like.

I know that Nabisco purchased Williams in 1971. Nabisco (because they were a major food company) would have been an early user of bar coding, so your soap could be as early as 1973 (although 1977 or later seems more likely).

Smith Kline purchased Williams in 1982. Smith Kline also purchased Allergan, a skin-care product line that same year so that might have marked one of the periods of re-formulation.

Combe Inc. acquired Williams North American rights in 2002. That was when manufacturing moved from New Jersey to White Plains, N.Y. Smith Kline (then known as GlaxoSmithKline) retained ownership of the name.

The rights to manufacture Williams for Europe was sold separately by GlaxoSmithKline to Sara Lee Corp. I'm not sure when. I'd be curious if the european version was different from the North American version.

I've read that Combe purchased Williams from GlaxoSmithKline at the end of 2009 and now solely distributes Williams (and Aqua Velva) worldwide.



- Peter

 

[Shave Cat]

Just a side note here. Much older packages of Williams list the raw ingredients from which the soap was made. Whereas, at some point in time, the list was changed to indicate the chemical compounds present in the soap. Perhaps there was a change in laws regarding package labeling.

-Clarke

 

[ctakim]

In my hands the older Williams is a different beast and a much better lathering soap than the modern version.

 

[bythbook]

I have a couple of old Williams pucks - no ingredients listed at all! (they MUST be old, right?)

They lather like crazy - rich, thick, slick, creamy... as good as anything.

 

[natchez]

My newly purchased Williams lists the stearate and then the tallowate as ingredients, as well.

Potassium Stearate is an emulsifier from the Stearate salt family used in cosmetics and beauty products to stabilize formulas and increasing the thickness, or add lubricating properties. It may also assist in keeping a formula from separating into its oil and liquid components.

Sodium tallowate is made from sodium hydroxide (better known as caustic soda or lye), steam, and animal (Ruminant, such as Adeps Bovis from cattle) fat (tallow). This process, called saponification, breaks down the triglyceride (fat), frees the glycerol, and produces a sodium salt, called sodium tallowate. It is usually combined with sodium cocoate, the sodium salt of coconut oil.

Best regards.

 

[Topgumby]

I got a PM that pretty much spells out what I thought (Thanks, BobK1!) and combined with Greybeard's time line of recent events it paints a pretty clear picture of what to look for in an older puck of Williams.

Let's borrow from Tolkien and divide Williams production like so:

• The First Age, or Golden Era Williams - Anything made in Glastonbury, CT from the 19th century till the move to NJ in 1970. There was a group of Williams employees who stayed in Glastonbury and made soap the old way and sold it to the re-located Williams company until 1977, so Golden Era soap may have been made (luxury soap?) until 1977.
• The Second Age, or Silver Era Williams - From the end of the First Age to reformulation by Smith Kline? when Sodium Tallowate moves to second place in the ingredients list.
• The Third Age, or Iron Era Williams - The stuff produced now.

If you have a package that lists Sodium Tallowate as the first ingredient, then you are getting good Silver era stuff, if you have a non UPC package or one that lists simply Tallow, you are getting Golden Era stuff, and if it says "Luxury" or it's a shave stick, then it also belongs in the great, First Age category. I think a rose scent would also indicate it belongs to the "Luxury" or Golden Era category.

I've seen pictures of pucks that are imprinted with "Tonsorial", I think those must be early Golden Era pucks for the barber trade, and I'm not sure when the menthol version stopped production, but I'd think a menthol puck should be at least Silver Era.

There has been a lot of chatter in the Aftershave forum about Combe moving Aqua Velva to plastic bottles, and some industry sources have hinted that Combe may be acquired before too long...I wonder if this would mark a new chapter in Williams history, perhaps ending production entirely or (we can hope) giving the easy to lather "Luxury" line a chance to make a comeback for the emerging wet shaving market...