Pre de Provence -- a short review

[The Coffee Bandit]

A lot of people are used to cream soaps. If it takes more than a few swirls the soap must be defective.

I've used PdP for a long time, so know it is a good soap, wears like iron and lasts a long time. Take the soap out of the container, face lathering works best, IMHO. You can also just use the puck like a very large shave stick, that works well as an option and you get plenty of soap that way.

While I've found that the phenomena of people under loading applies to all soap consistencies, it does stand to reason that it may be exacerbated among first time hard puck users. I would confidently wager that most people struggling with PDP, or any other soap, are often (not always) just not loading enough

To be fair, though...SV, CSS and MDC are all hard soaps that don't require anywhere near the load times that PDP seems to demand. We also have to entertain the possibility that, just because you or I find PDP to be a good soap, doesn't mean somebody else will. There's people who have been using, say, Williams mug soap for a long time that will cite their long use as proof that it's a good soap for everyone, when really it's only proof that it's sufficient for their own individual needs.

 

[NorthernSoul]

To be fair, though...SV, CSS and MDC are all hard soaps that don't require anywhere near the load times that PDP seems to demand. We also have to entertain the possibility that, just because you or I find PDP to be a good soap, doesn't mean somebody else will. There's people who have been using, say, Williams mug soap for a long time that will cite their long use as proof that it's a good soap for everyone, when really it's only proof that it's sufficient for their own individual needs.

Plenty of people feel PdP is a good soap in terms of shaving performance. Maybe there's not universal agreement, but there's seldom universal agreement about anything else! Let's not YMMV everything.

I've seen many people post about MdC things like "the lather leapt off the puck", "five seconds of loading was plenty", etc. So, if that is their expectation for PdP, they are going to be disappointed. Still, that doesn't make PdP a bad soap. It's just a particular expectation those folks have. Thirty seconds of loading doesn't bother me at all if the soap works well for shaving. That's IMHO, anyway.

 

[Lane101]

A lot of people are used to cream soaps. If it takes more than a few swirls the soap must be defective.

I've used PdP for a long time, so know it is a good soap, wears like iron and lasts a long time. Take the soap out of the container, face lathering works best, IMHO. You can also just use the puck like a very large shave stick, that works well as an option and you get plenty of soap that way.

Desired loading time/effort is very YMMV. Folks used to loading soft artisan soaps in 10 -15 seconds won't prefer classic hard pucks like MWF, PdP or Williams as those require additional effort and variations in technique such as a stiffer brush (e.g. boar), your suggestion to use as a shave stick and use of additional water.

Great example was RayClem who only preferred soaps that could be loaded in under 15 seconds due to his arthritis. My favored approach is to combine loading and lathering via use of an vertically oversized mug/container that lets one build lather directly on the puck.

 

[Lane101]

While I've found that the phenomena of people under loading applies to all soap consistencies, it does stand to reason that it may be exacerbated among first time hard puck users. I would confidently wager that most people struggling with PDP, or any other soap, are often (not always) just not loading enough

To be fair, though...SV, CSS and MDC are all hard soaps that don't require anywhere near the load times that PDP seems to demand. We also have to entertain the possibility that, just because you or I find PDP to be a good soap, doesn't mean somebody else will. There's people who have been using, say, Williams mug soap for a long time that will cite their long use as proof that it's a good soap for everyone, when really it's only proof that it's sufficient for their own individual needs.

You are right that in many cases poor lather stems from under loading.

Over time I've discovered that myself and learned to tailor my lathering technique to what is ideal for each type of product (hard pucks, softer croaps, creams). There are a plethora of lathering method variations such as building lather on the puck, scooping exact amounts of croap into a bowl and use of a much wetter brush or soaking the puck prior to loading. Softer and malleable hard soaps such as Arko can be loaded with just a barely damp brush with the entire build via face or bowl lathering where small amounts of water are repeatedly added during the process. See the thread linked below for details and perspectives from many B&Bers.

Those who have a single preferred loading and lathering method will likely stick with those soaps/creams that work well with that method.

Can Great Lather be Generated from Any Reasonable Quality Shaving Soap or Cream?

At their core most shaving soaps and creams consist of saponified fatty acids. Can any reasonable quality shaving soap or cream generate great lather with the right technique? Over the past two years I've added a number of good commercial shaving soaps and creams to my rotation. This rotation...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Swistak]

While I've found that the phenomena of people under loading applies to all soap consistencies, it does stand to reason that it may be exacerbated among first time hard puck users. I would confidently wager that most people struggling with PDP, or any other soap, are often (not always) just not loading enough

To be fair, though...SV, CSS and MDC are all hard soaps that don't require anywhere near the load times that PDP seems to demand. We also have to entertain the possibility that, just because you or I find PDP to be a good soap, doesn't mean somebody else will. There's people who have been using, say, Williams mug soap for a long time that will cite their long use as proof that it's a good soap for everyone, when really it's only proof that it's sufficient for their own individual needs.

This tendency to 'under-load' is definitely the problem for me---particularly with PDP, and as a cream user. I still struggle to load enough with a sopping wet brush (makes bubbles), which is why I think a fully wrung-out brush works best, scraping up more of the soap with the bristles. I then add water to the brush once it is loaded up.

Nothing wrong at all with the soap---just an adjustment needing to be made on my part. I am still dialing it in, as they say.

 

[Swistak]

On the contrary, it is foolproof; and no, the lather formed on the puck is definitely not bubbly (save for the first few seconds), but rather thick and creamy. Just like almost all of the 80+ soaps I've tried over the years. Of course I'm not loading up like crazy, and try to keep aeration down to a minimum by gentle rubbing and scraping and softly pumping the lather up into the brush, then pushing it out onto the puck again to pick up more soap.

Bubbly lather... suggests a multitude of improvements waiting to be made.



This is something I've run into with PdP from time to time. Usually the lather's off: either too thick or too thin. Many years ago I suspect an issue with either a fragrance or a lye caused irritation... when I tried anew a few years later I was most pleased the issue had subsided.



No, it's not difficult at all, unless you're trying to load from that silly tin which offers no room for the proto-lather at all. I move all soap pucks into lidded tubs foodstuffs are sold in, like this. Works a charm.

I really ought to try and make a video about this stuff to illustrate the process. Moisture, gentle movements, time... Soap will dissolve. I always get there in the end, which is between 30 and 40 seconds. (I don't care about creating too much lather. I care about a good shave, and if I go through a puck at an accelarated rate... so be it. It won't break the bank to buy a new one.)



That's always a bummer when that happens. Not something the soap maker can easily change, of course.

Perhaps, but I would not call it foolproof for those who are new to hard soaps. The same way either an overly mild or overly aggressive razor is not foolproof for a new shaver. Nothing new is ever foolproof; one needs practice and exposure. Of course, maybe that's a silly point, but it is the point I was trying to make with *my experience with PDP. Loading this soap with a sopping/dripping brush led (for me) to repeated under-loading (user error, for sure, but I didn't know it at the time). A first time shaver using an R41 may be getting cuts and nicks each shave, and they may blame the razor for their lack of skill, but they would not know (at least immediately) that it was their fault if all that they ever used was a mild razor like a Tech.

Back to PDP. Loading with a dry brush worked better as the brush was able to pick up more soap rather than making bubbles on a wet puck. Of course, as a cream/croap user, my expectations for PDP were misaligned and I didn't know how to load it properly.

With creams, using a brush that is too wet usually doesn't mess up the lather as dramatically (once can simply add an extra dab or squirt of cream). But, in my case, loading PDP with too much water in the brush made it difficult to pick up enough soap. With cream, there is nothing that needs to be 'picked up,' as it is already in your bowl, on your face, or squirted into your brush. It is easier to add more of with the squeeze of a tube. With PDP, it isn't as clear how much soap you've actually loaded onto your brush (especially if you haven't developed an 'eye' for it yet, as a new user).

To be clear, I like PDP when it works, and the dependent variable was my lack of skill and not a defect in the soap. Yet, I would still maintain that, for the average shaver who is used to the ease of creams and crops, this is not a foolproof product. It is not a bad one, but there is a learning curve. Hard soaps, like every other product, need to be learned how to be used. I am still in the process of learning PDP ('dialing it in'). This is why I hope to use PDP exclusively until I finish my puck---several months of shaving, and thus acclimation to the product and its ways, to be sure.

 

[jonwilson]

I used this soap today. not bad for a quad milled shave soap. The scent on it is ok. Smells like irish spring a little bit to me. Something in the soap irritated my face. Don't know what. Still a good soap to have in your shave soap/cream collection. Lasts a long time.

 

[The Coffee Bandit]

This tendency to 'under-load' is definitely the problem for me---particularly with PDP, and as a cream user. I still struggle to load enough with a sopping wet brush (makes bubbles), which is why I think a fully wrung-out brush works best, scraping up more of the soap with the bristles. I then add water to the brush once it is loaded up.

Nothing wrong at all with the soap---just an adjustment needing to be made on my part. I am still dialing it in, as they say.

I load PDP the same way I do every other soap, only longer. I take a damp brush and start loading. I apply enough pressure for the brush to begin splaying but not fully open. When the brush starts to stick to the soap during swirling(usually after about 15 seconds) dip just the tips in water and resume loading until it starts sticking again...repeat as necessary. Sometimes I need to dip my brush 6+ times for PDP which takes over 90 seconds... Softer soaps usually only need 2-3 dips.
If, at any point, I have bubbles forming... Then I know my brush was too wet.

This will work for literally any shave soap with only dip count/load duration needing to be adjusted.

 

[Swistak]

I load PDP the same way I do every other soap, only longer. I take a damp brush and start loading. I apply enough pressure for the brush to begin splaying but not fully open. When the brush starts to stick to the soap during swirling(usually after about 15 seconds) dip just the tips in water and resume loading until it starts sticking again...repeat as necessary. Sometimes I need to dip my brush 6+ times for PDP which takes over 90 seconds... Softer soaps usually only need 2-3 dips.
If, at any point, I have bubbles forming... Then I know my brush was too wet.

This will work for literally any shave soap with only dip count/load duration needing to be adjusted.

Precisely how I have recently learned to do it. Your point about the tips sticking to the puck is spot on. That's when I see paste forming on the puck and in the brush, which means I'm loading up product. Little bit of water added to ease up the stickiness and facilitate further loading. I hate to describe this so mechanically but that's the best I way can say it at the moment

 

[bmiller3230]

I'm asking this in an inquiring way. If it is considered so good by some, why all the tips and tricks to lather it? Something good should be easy to lather. It's a hard puck. Check. Tabac is a hard puck. Check. It doesn't smell as good, but Tabac is easy to lather and provides stellar performance.

Is PdP liked because of performance or scent? I think it's the scent, because I can't imagine performance. I think people are just trying to make it work

 

[The Coffee Bandit]

I'm asking this in an inquiring way. If it is considered so good by some, why all the tips and tricks to lather it? Something good should be easy to lather. It's a hard puck. Check. Tabac is a hard puck. Check. It doesn't smell as good, but Tabac is easy to lather and provides stellar performance.

Is PdP liked because of performance or scent? I think it's the scent, because I can't imagine performance. I think people are just trying to make it work

My describing how I lather was just my describing how I lather all soaps, as I know it's a sure way to avoid under loading, which, again, applies to all soaps. I don't find PDP needs special methods...just a longer load.

To answer your question, though... I didn't find the performance of PDP to be particularly exceptional. PDP sat comfortably in the 'good, not great' category which is certainly good enough to shave with.

I ended up PIFing it to my father, who is absolutely mad about the scent of 63. PDP remains one of the many soaps that I enjoyed using, but didn't feel compelled to buy more of once it was gone, or to put in permanent rotation, which has been narrowed down to less than a dozen

 

[Swistak]

I'm asking this in an inquiring way. If it is considered so good by some, why all the tips and tricks to lather it? Something good should be easy to lather. It's a hard puck. Check. Tabac is a hard puck. Check. It doesn't smell as good, but Tabac is easy to lather and provides stellar performance.

Is PdP liked because of performance or scent? I think it's the scent, because I can't imagine performance. I think people are just trying to make it work

To answer your question, as The Coffee Bandit has said above, PDP is a perfectly serviceable soap. My minor critiques of it (outweighed by the good reviews of plenty of happy customers on B&B) should not prevent your purchase. As I said earlier, my critiques of the product are not truly speaking valid critiques, but user error on my end. Cream users should not expect a hard soap to lather in the same efficient way as a cream--my expectations were readjusted as I learned to use it properly and now I am happy with the product.

I will add my own opinion on hard soaps vs creams: There is nothing more blissful (to me) than squirting cream from a tube into one's brush and having a perfect shave almost every time. Loading a brush from hard soap takes some getting used to, and isn't nearly as simple or foolproof. I guess I am simply used to the easy of the European Nivea and Wars (PL) creams that function just as easily as a tube of toothpaste you'd get from the store---which is how I see it: a shave brush and cream are to shaving, just as a toothbrush and toothpaste are to dental hygiene. It's slightly different dynamic with hard soap---not a simple squeeze and go. Learning curve as with all things.

 

[NorthernSoul]

I'm asking this in an inquiring way. If it is considered so good by some, why all the tips and tricks to lather it? Something good should be easy to lather. It's a hard puck. Check. Tabac is a hard puck. Check. It doesn't smell as good, but Tabac is easy to lather and provides stellar performance.

Is PdP liked because of performance or scent? I think it's the scent, because I can't imagine performance. I think people are just trying to make it work

I think people were just trying to be helpful with the tips. That's what we do, try to help people. Pardon us.

The original PdP shaving soap was more like the Bergamot & Thyme. The scent was like hand soap from a nice hotel. A puck of PdP cost around $10 and could last a year. It was only much later the #63 scent was introduced. PdP was a good soap then. It still is a good soap. It's not hard to lather, you just have to learn.

 

[bmiller3230]

I think people were just trying to be helpful with the tips. That's what we do, try to help people. Pardon us.

The original PdP shaving soap was more like the Bergamot & Thyme. The scent was like hand soap from a nice hotel. A puck of PdP cost around $10 and could last a year. It was only much later the #63 scent was introduced. PdP was a good soap then. It still is a good soap. It's not hard to lather, you just have to learn.

My point, which has been missed multiple times, is why use something that as to be "figured out"? There are a lot of shaving soaps that are both inexpensive, smell good, and just work. Cella screamingly comes to mind... I own both PdP soaps and have for many years and don't think much of either.

 

[NorthernSoul]

My point, which has been missed multiple times, is why use something that as to be "figured out"? There are a lot of shaving soaps that are both inexpensive, smell good, and just work. Cella screamingly comes to mind... I own both PdP soaps and have for many years and don't think much of either.

Because it is very slick, economical, and long lasting. It has good residual slickness and post-shave feel. It works well for shaving, even with straight razors.

Why should I pay 30+ per puck for some artisan soap that is basically a luxury product and status symbol? I would not personally make that choice, but many people will. It works for them. Fine, I guess.

French soaps like PdP are formulated differently than many popular soaps. They can provide a lot of slickness and good post-shave feel. They don't lather the instant the brush touches the soap. You won't have lather that looks like a Santa Claus beard. So, you have to adjust. It is not a big deal. It's actually easy. For some reason, you consider it a big deal or a flaw. It's your choice.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

My point, which has been missed multiple times, is why use something that as to be "figured out"? There are a lot of shaving soaps that are both inexpensive, smell good, and just work. Cella screamingly comes to mind... I own both PdP soaps and have for many years and don't think much of either.

I wouldn't, personally.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I really haven't had any issues getting a decent lather out of PdP, but please don't misunderstand, I'm not dismissing the fact that you and others have found it challenging. Life is too short to mess around with something that's not working for you, and there are a plethora of great soaps that work. I have a puck of Le Pere Lucien that has never worked well for me and despite the fact that it's probably my favorite scent so far (oud neroli) I just don't use it.

When I read threads like this, I wonder if there isn't some batch variation involved here. Or some other factor.

 

[bmiller3230]

Because it is very slick, economical, and long lasting. It has good residual slickness and post-shave feel. It works well for shaving, even with straight razors.

Why should I pay 30+ per puck for some artisan soap that is basically a luxury product and status symbol? I would not personally make that choice, but many people will. It works for them. Fine, I guess.

French soaps like PdP are formulated differently than many popular soaps. They can provide a lot of slickness and good post-shave feel. They don't lather the instant the brush touches the soap. You won't have lather that looks like a Santa Claus beard. So, you have to adjust. It is not a big deal. It's actually easy. For some reason, you consider it a big deal or a flaw. It's your choice.

Cella is $9.44 for a 5.4 ounce red tub on Amazon. It's neither expensive nor artisan, and it's been around since 1899

 

[brucered]

Cella is $9.44 for a 5.4 ounce red tub on Amazon. It's neither expensive nor artisan, and it's been around since 1899

It's also heavily scented, usage is higher and not as good a soap.

Use what you like.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Cella is $9.44 for a 5.4 ounce red tub on Amazon. It's neither expensive nor artisan, and it's been around since 1899

I actually do have some Cella Bio around here, along with soaps like Haslinger, Speick, Tabac, MWF and LEA Classic. I even have a few artisan soaps. I like them and use them. I just don't see anything wrong with soaps like PdP or Osma that are a bit different but also work well.

 

[bmiller3230]

I actually do have some Cella Bio around here, along with soaps like Haslinger, Speick, Tabac, MWF and LEA Classic. I even have a few artisan soaps. I like them and use them. I just don't see anything wrong with soaps like PdP or Osma that are a bit different but also work well.

Well, I will give it one more shot tonight. I'll load my favorite badger brush for a full 2 minutes if that's what it takes. Or, should I use boar? I face lather only these days, but will use a bowl again if that is recommended. I'm willing to give it another fair shot. I have very soft water, with few minerals in it. So, lets see...