Pocket microscopes... Incredible, pain

[APBinNCA]

I got my Carson MicroFlip 100-250x early and have taken it for a spin. The things I am seeing briefly are incredible, then everything moves and it's gone. I have spent over thirty minutes hunched over this thing with and without the cell phone and I am in too much pain to even continue. All I can say is, hats off to the people that are taking incredible photos with these things.

I will get something eventually, but if it is going to take me 10 minutes after X number of laps on the stones to get a picture I don't know how useful this is going to be. The microscope has to be on the blade, but putting it on there causes everything to move around. I get focus then it's gone, partly my camera flipping out. I guess this is at least worth what I paid for it. Maybe a jig needs to be made so the microscope can remain stationary while moving the blade?

 

[RayClem]

A lot of guys love jeweler's loupes for examining their honed edges. I have them, including a, expensive printer's loupe I used when I worked in the paper industry. However, for examining edges, I find that a good USB microscope works best.

Do not get one of the super cheap ones. They do not have sufficient resolution to do any good. I made the mistake of purchasing a Pluggable 2MP microscope and was disappointed in the image quality. It did not help me improve my edges.

You do not necessarily need high magnification, but you do need good resolution. I now use a Celestron 5 MP camera that goes up to 200x magnification, but you do not need to go that high 60-100x is sufficient. There are some scopes that go up to 12 MP which would be even better.

https://www.amazon.com/Celestron-Handheld-Digital-Microscope-Pro/dp/B00CMJ1I08/

There are some microscopes that have their own digital screen, but I like displaying the image on a large computer monitor. Put your money into the camera, not a screen.

BTW: at higher magnifications, you might find that the clear ring at the bottom of the microscope will hit the spine of your razor. I took a Dremel tool and ground off all but 5/16" of that ring. That allows clearance for the spine, but still provides sufficient protection for the LED lights inside. If you try to remove the ring entirely, you might damage the LED bulbs.

 

[Wid]

I have one of those Carson scopes and I agree, it’s a pain in the *** to use. It’s good for looking at the grain structure of a stone and that about it for me.

 

[Herrenberg]

Seeking something with more magnification than a loupe, but not so much that I couldn't hold it in my hand, I got a couple of these:

One is 25X, the other 50X. I like them for a quick check on parts of the edge as I'm honing, without getting up and firing up the serious microscope.

Good:

That plastic point is great for holding the microscope steady while I'm holding the razor steady on a surface. I pivot around the point to bring the image into focus.

These magnifications are very useful for spotting subtleties I don't see in the 10X loupe.

Reasonably quick to use.

Lighting is pretty good

Not so good:

Small area of view.

Image appears upside down. Not really a problem, but takes some getting used to.

No pictures possible

They were just over 30 bucks each.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

I too tried the pocket microscope. I hated it. I bought a digital microscope like in the link above. Now mine was advertised as 500+ or something like that. In reality, it is a solid 100X and works great. I don't use it much anymore. If I do it's just to get before and after bevel shots. After that, I don't see much need for it. At least for me. They don't cost much and are so much easier to use!

 

[bluesman 7]

So, we are all in agreement.

Stones ordered, tell me how I messed up

Aaron, you and I have similar personalities.. it's annoying, isn't it? You want to get it right.... and you'll keep going until you do..but in the meantime, it's a struggle mentally. I remember my initial days learning digital photography. Luckily, I had a site similar to this one (POTN) and...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[APBinNCA]

So, we are all in agreement.

Stones ordered, tell me how I messed up

Aaron, you and I have similar personalities.. it's annoying, isn't it? You want to get it right.... and you'll keep going until you do..but in the meantime, it's a struggle mentally. I remember my initial days learning digital photography. Luckily, I had a site similar to this one (POTN) and...

www.badgerandblade.com

Did I do something bad?
Sorry, I guess.

 

[bluesman 7]

Did I do something bad?
Sorry, I guess.

No, I'm sorry that you took it that way. I was just pointing out what I thought about those scopes in the other thread.

Like I said, a waste of fortunately not very much money. No worries mate.

 

[APBinNCA]

No, I'm sorry that you took it that way. I was just pointing out what I thought about those scopes in the other thread.

Like I said, a waste of fortunately not very much money. No worries mate.

Would have helped if I clicked the link to what you were referring to

 

[rbscebu]

I started using a USB microscope early in my honing development. I soon found that it was showing "defects" in my edges that were not affecting the shave quality. Sometimes it's best not to know.

A 10X or 20X loupé was plenty enough edge magnification to see defects that mattered. I still have and sometimes use my loupé but not as often. I am now experienced enough to see most defects that matter with my naked eye in strong sunlight.

 

[Kyle89]

I love that pocket scope to death but it took me forever to be able to keep it steady reliably to view with my naked eye haha. Adding in photos to the mix I’d probably throw it out the window in frustration haha

 

[RayClem]

I started using a USB microscope early in my honing development. I soon found that it was showing "defects" in my edges that were not affecting the shave quality. Sometimes it's best not to know.

A 10X or 20X loupé was plenty enough edge magnification to see defects that mattered. I still have and sometimes use my loupé but not as often. I am now experienced enough to see most defects that matter with my naked eye in strong sunlight.

As you say, the only test that really matters is the shave test. If the edge is sharp enough for your beard and smooth enough for your face, then honing + stropping has done its job. Of course, finishing on pastes strops will remove some of the visual defects under magnification that might have affected the shave. I can finish on a 8-10K stone if I do a lot of work on pasted strops. However, i would rather finish on 15-20K hones and then go to the strops as it is less work achieving the same edge quality.

I find the microscope to be most useful when testing new hones, especially natural hones. Magnification can tell you a lot about the type of scratch pattern the stone leaves. After setting a bevel, magnification can tell you if you have done sufficient work with the next hone to remove all of the scratches or stria from the previous hone.

Magnification is also useful when trying to hone a razor with steel that is subject to microchipping. My face can detect any microchips on the edge, so I would rather detect them before touching the edge to my skin.

By the way, the wavelength of visible light is in the 0.4-0.7 micron range. Thus, when you polish the edge using 0.25 micron pastes or finer, there will be no visible stria, even under magnification, unless you fail to remove previous scratches and stria. Dr Matt likes polishing edges with 0.1 micron CBN paste. He then examines his edges using a high quality 900X microscope. The edge will be perfectly smooth. My microscope is not as good as his, but I love the 0.1 micron CBN for a super smooth edge. The Method edge uses diamond pastes, but as long as you go fine enough, the effect is the same.

 

[APBinNCA]

By the way, the wavelength of visible light is in the 0.4-0.7 micron range. Thus, when you polish the edge using 0.25 micron pastes or finer, there will be no visible stria, even under magnification, unless you fail to remove previous scratches and stria.

This is really an interesting point. Generally progressions end at 1 before moving to preferred stropping. You would be right at the limit of being able to see that you removed the previous stria. What I read that magnification is useful for beyond that point is checking the condition of the edge, not the bevels.

 

[Titleist]

When I started out over ten years ago, I was gifted a USB microscope by another member here. I found that I was spending too much time "obsessing" over what I was seeing through the microscope and forgetting what I was "feeling" on the stone and more importantly, in my shaves.

I now use a 10X loupe and trust my eyes and experience through that lens. I also trust my face because it is the true arbiter of my honing abilities. I don't sell my edges commercially, I hone for myself so I have nothing to prove here.

Just one Man's opinion, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

The benefit of magnification is learning how to identify where your technique is lacking. So, magnification by itself does not tell you much until you learn to read what you see.

If you are obsessing over, minutia, you are looking at the wrong thing.

Yes, you can hone with 10x, but if you are going to compare 10X with known grit micrographs, 10X will look nothing like 400X. Folks who advise using low power 10-20X already know how to hone and read a bevel from what they see.

You need enough magnification to see if you are 1. Honing all the way to the edge, from heel to toe. 2. See if the edge is chipped, micro chipped or falling apart, (bad steel). 3. See if you are removing all the stria from the previous stone. And 4. See if you edge is getting evenly straighter and that the bevels are meeting fully at the edge.

It would be the equivalent of teaching someone to drive and telling them you do not need to look out of the whole windshield, you only need 10%, block out the rest.

 

[RayClem]

This is really an interesting point. Generally progressions end at 1 before moving to preferred stropping. You would be right at the limit of being able to see that you removed the previous stria. What I read that magnification is useful for beyond that point is checking the condition of the edge, not the bevels.

The very finest hones available AFAIK are the Shapton Glass 30K and the Suehiro 20K. Both are listed in the 0.5 micron range. Both are expensive, so not many people have them. There may be some Japanese naturals that fine as well; I have the Suehiro, but not a JNat. Like you have stated, the finest hone most people use would be in the 10K-12K region, about 0.8-1.0 micron. For most folks that is sufficient. However, my beard and face never liked a 1 micron edge without further refinement. I do have a few natural homes (Greek Vermio, South African Zulu Grey, and Imperia La Roccia from parts unknown) that seem to be finer than 1 micron. I have heard some good things recently about the Pierre La Lune stones you can get from Matt at Griffith Shaving, but I have not tried one. I have a modern Thuringian that seems to be around 10K. I have several naturals around 12K along with a Naniwa SS12K. I can finish on them and then refine the edge using pasted strops, but I normally finish on either one of my three finest natural stones or the Suehiro 20K synthetic.

 

[APBinNCA]

The benefit of magnification is learning how to identify where your technique is lacking. So, magnification by itself does not tell you much until you learn to read what you see.

If you are obsessing over, minutia, you are looking at the wrong thing.

Yes, you can hone with 10x, but if you are going to compare 10X with known grit micrographs, 10X will look nothing like 400X. Folks who advise using low power 10-20X already know how to hone and read a bevel from what they see.

You need enough magnification to see if you are 1. Honing all the way to the edge, from heel to toe. 2. See if the edge is chipped, micro chipped or falling apart, (bad steel). 3. See if you are removing all the stria from the previous stone. And 4. See if you edge is getting evenly straighter and that the bevels are meeting fully at the edge.

It would be the equivalent of teaching someone to drive and telling them you do not need to look out of the whole windshield, you only need 10%, block out the rest.

I agree and that is why I went ahead and purchased it. I will figure out some way to keep it stable. I think what I am going to do is get a bendy tripod with cell phone clamp and set everything up so I can just slide the blade underneath and only make small focus adjustments. I do like the idea behind this microscope. I have been unwilling to purchase one of the USB ones because they are outdated technology compared to my cell phone and I can put the money towards a used microscope if I want to later. Thank you.

 

[SparkyLB]

I started using a USB microscope early in my honing development. I soon found that it was showing "defects" in my edges that were not affecting the shave quality. Sometimes it's best not to know.

A 10X or 20X loupé was plenty enough edge magnification to see defects that mattered. I still have and sometimes use my loupé but not as often. I am now experienced enough to see most defects that matter with my naked eye in strong sunlight.

Definitely agree! Among my few hobbies is amateur watchmaking/repair, so I have several loupes that are held to my eye with a wrap-around wire affair. I also have a couple of Triplet 10X loupes that belonged to my dad. That's the highest magnification I've seen. Not from personal experience, but from reading the accounts of others' experiences; it seems that fine resolution afforded by near-microscopic glimpses of a blade do not necessarily correlate to the quality of the shave.

So far (and I don't have much experience), my very best shaves came from a blade that does not pass the HHT and FOTF test. In fact, the last stage of the process on Tomo yields such a polish that the edge appears soft, hazy, and at the risk of sounding like a schizophrenic: like an inflatable toy.

As said by @rbscebu sometimes the key is knowing less (counterintuitive as it sounds). If an electron microscope could tell me how my shave is going to be, I'd save up for one. Ignorance is bliss? Just shave with the darn thing?

I ask sincerely and not as a wisecracker; in general, can anyone tell the quality of a shave by looking at the blade at + 100x resolution? Is there a correlation?

In my ignorance, I have so far learned that if I follow the routine taught to me by my mentor, my blade is SHARP. I suppose I can be armed to the teeth with any number of implements and toys but I'll buy them if and when I need them.

 

[APBinNCA]

As Brad said above, it is to make sure you have finished one stage before moving on to the next. Being able to post pictures if uncertain is helpful. As you have said, and my own experience, you can feel what the stone is telling you. You also might discover later that the stone was lying and you should have gone another 10 laps before moving on to the next one!

No harm either way, as long as it's not an irreplaceable razor and you aren't using synthetics that will grind an entire mm of metal off!

I found a bendy tripod with cell phone mount and will be ordering that soon.

 

[Herrenberg]

I ask sincerely and not as a wisecracker; in general, can anyone tell the quality of a shave by looking at the blade at + 100x resolution? Is there a correlation?

Don't know. In some cases, sure.

Here's an example: I got a new Koraat, and the shave was very good, but not quite where I thought it could be. I saw nothing with my eye, or a loupe, to tell me why. But when I put it edge-on under the microscope, I saw that there was not quite an apex on 1/3 of the edge. Almost, but not quite. Knowing just what the problem was, and where, made it very easy to fix.

I generally don't use my serious microscope to say "yes, this will give a good shave." I use it to look for problems, so that I can correlate with what I feel on the stones, and what I see under light, lower magnification, etc. Unlike others in this thread, I have found a strong correlation between the shave and the presence of problems I can only see under the microscope. I admit I am unusually tuned-in to the tactile feel of the shave, so every little bit of improvement matters to me.