I'm looking to step into the world of honing and currently I'm looking at buying the Norton 4k/8k, Naniwa superstone 12k, balsa bench hone with Chromium Oxide and the Norton flattening stone. What do you think? Also, the Norton flattening stone is meant to be used on the Norton 4k/8k, but could it also be used on the Naniwa 12k or do I need another one? Thanks guys!
Plate for a naniwa 12k?
- Thread starter jard011
- Start date
I've used it without incident, just make sure the Naniwa is clean after you're done lapping. I follow it up with BBW.
- Thread starter
- #3
Thanks, and I'm sorry for the question, but couldn't find what BBW is in the Noob's acronym section. I'm brand new and need spelling out!
Norton Flattening Stone is much lower grit than the Naniwa, you need something to bring to back up when you're done lapping.
I couldn't get the Norton flattening stone to work worth a crap even on the Norton 4k/8k.
It did okay on the 4k side, never did get the 8k side flat.
It barely touched the Naniwa 12k.
Pitch that Norton brick and pick up a DMT 325. It'll lap anything (including a Coticule or C-Nat), and it's good for a blade that needs serious repair prior to bevel setting on the DMT1200.
It did okay on the 4k side, never did get the 8k side flat.
It barely touched the Naniwa 12k.
Pitch that Norton brick and pick up a DMT 325. It'll lap anything (including a Coticule or C-Nat), and it's good for a blade that needs serious repair prior to bevel setting on the DMT1200.
People use the Norton flattening stone with great success quite often. Seems they need to be lapped flat though.
Emanuell lapped 50-60 Creatan hones flat with one - wore it out too. My Creatan arrived pretty flat.
Emanuell lapped 50-60 Creatan hones flat with one - wore it out too. My Creatan arrived pretty flat.
I used 400 or 600 grit sandpaper. Seemed to work well for me
I tend to use w/d paper myself. I have a DMT 325 that's good for basic leveling, but like Baya said, that's not the last stop on the train.
- Thread starter
- #9
Hmm, more to consider. As I haven't purchased the stones yet, I'm open to suggestions!
I literally spent over an hour on the Norton 8k and it never did level more than about 80% at the center. Both ends were still low.
Couldn't get more than the center 50% flat on the Naniwa in the same amount of time (and it wasn't even flat to the sides).
DMT325 finished up both plus my C12k in under 30 minutes.
I think diamond plates make easy work out of all lapping tasks.
I do prefer to use w/d above 325x though.
I do prefer to use w/d above 325x though.
I tried the 1200 to smooth the C12k (before I knew better), ended up with deep scratches and ruined the 1200. The center 90% of that plate is now BBS. No feedback at all until I get to the ends.
I've killed more DMTs than I care to think about.
All from lapping. Arks mostly.
I buy 600x w/d in 50 packs now.
All from lapping. Arks mostly.
I buy 600x w/d in 50 packs now.
Yikes!
I would cancel the crox and balsa along with norton flattening stone. Get w/d or DMT and a king 1k, unless you want a chosera
Norton Flattening stones don't work well with excessive pressure, less is more.
I have a small Naniwa 220 flattening stone, which looks the same as the Norton one - I don't know what differences there might be. And as a newcomer to honing, I really don't like it at all - so far I've found it very hard to get a stone flat with it
It took me about an hour today, with lots of repeated checks with a straight edge, to flatten one side of a Naniwa 1000 - first the stone was convex side-to-side, then it was flat side-to-side but up at the ends, then...
I'm getting a diamond stone.
It took me about an hour today, with lots of repeated checks with a straight edge, to flatten one side of a Naniwa 1000 - first the stone was convex side-to-side, then it was flat side-to-side but up at the ends, then...
I'm getting a diamond stone.
I think you'll be happy you did. Having a DMT 325 (or similar) is invaluable if you're going to be honing with any sort of regularity IMO...
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
The problem with any sort of flattening stone is the size. Typically it is no bigger, or not much bigger, than the stone you are trying to lap. So naturally you get overrun and depending on your skill level and experience, variable degrees of flatness. The Norton one gets quite a few bad reviews though a few guys obviously like them. So there is a lot of YMMV in there.
I find that glueing a whole sheet of sandpaper to a KNOWN flat surface with a very light spray of Loctite or 3M spray adhesive (Hone Depot carries it) and taking care to get the paper on very flat and tight with zero bubbles, dust, lint, or other debris under it, gives me a very good surface for lapping practically any stone. Most hones are around 8" or sometimes less, and the sandpaper is 11" long by 8-1/2" wide. Working diagonally on the paper allows you to get a reasonable stroke without going off the edge of the paper. Draw a grid on the hone and lap it until it is totally gone, and you know that your stone is at least as flat as the surface you stuck the paper to. A glass coffee table top is pretty flat. Don't use the one in the living room LOL! SWMBO might get upset about the scratches you will invariably leave in the glass. Get one from a thrift store or junk shop. A broken one could be had pretty cheap. Cut it to a handy size and sand the sharp edges down. A polished marble floor tile is usually flat enough. You can also spend a few bucks on a calibrated and rated granite lapping plate and these can actually be surprisingly cheap. You can use the plate for all sorts of precision lapping, flattening, and honing applications.
Of course you have to buy sandpaper. No biggie if you only lap a stone occasionally. 320 grit or so is good to start. You probably want to hit it again on like 600 and 1000 grit to help restore the surface smoothness of the stone.
The 4/8k Nort and the 12k Nani are a good setup but if you are gonna buy that much of a progression you probably ought to get something for bevel setting and something for coarse, heavy edge repair. Yeah you can set a bevel on 4k if the edge isn't too bad, but it can take a while. A 1k Chosera is great, though not the cheapest option. Some guys like the 1200 DMT. The 1k King is pretty cheap and sorta good. Norton makes a 220/1000 grit combination stone that will give you a big gun rapid steel remover for fixing bad frowners or big chips, and also a decent bevel setter. The 220 is good for putting a quick edge on a kitchen knife, too.
Me, I like film, though there is something to be said for stones, for setting bevels or heavy edge repair. I as well as many others think it is by far the fastest way for a newbie to get his first really great edge, and it is way cheaper to get started with, and you never have to lap a stone again. Edges are, shall we say, fantasticosuperduperamazinglysuperb? http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it?highlight=lapping+film+try+it is good reading and a good reference.
Your super flat surface thing you lap your stones on can also serve as your lapping plate with lapping film. And the same flat surface, with sandpaper glued to it, can set your bevel, if you don't want to try film and don't want to get a 1k stone for bevel setting. Just fold and tear a whole sheet lengthwise, and you got a pretty good bevel setter. Not the best, but definitely the cheapest, if you only occasionally need to set a bevel on a razor.
The balsa strop is excellent for some things. I always strop my razors after shaving on a balsa strop with .1u diamond paste. I never have to re-hone. Occasionally I will catch one trying to go dull on me, and I just hit the .5u diamond until the edge is back, then hit the .1u diamond. I find the .1u diamond is much better than CrOx for this. If you use CrOx, then get some FeOx (the red paste, Iron Oxide, nominally .1u grit size) for a fine side to the coarse CrOx side of your balsa. But diamond paste is I think better. www.tedpella.com is where I get mine. Use sparingly. If you think you got enough, you got too much. Way too much. After you rub it in well, it should feel like you don't have anything there. This is for any paste, not just diamond. Most guys put way too much and get mediocre, underwhelming results.
I find that glueing a whole sheet of sandpaper to a KNOWN flat surface with a very light spray of Loctite or 3M spray adhesive (Hone Depot carries it) and taking care to get the paper on very flat and tight with zero bubbles, dust, lint, or other debris under it, gives me a very good surface for lapping practically any stone. Most hones are around 8" or sometimes less, and the sandpaper is 11" long by 8-1/2" wide. Working diagonally on the paper allows you to get a reasonable stroke without going off the edge of the paper. Draw a grid on the hone and lap it until it is totally gone, and you know that your stone is at least as flat as the surface you stuck the paper to. A glass coffee table top is pretty flat. Don't use the one in the living room LOL! SWMBO might get upset about the scratches you will invariably leave in the glass. Get one from a thrift store or junk shop. A broken one could be had pretty cheap. Cut it to a handy size and sand the sharp edges down. A polished marble floor tile is usually flat enough. You can also spend a few bucks on a calibrated and rated granite lapping plate and these can actually be surprisingly cheap. You can use the plate for all sorts of precision lapping, flattening, and honing applications.
Of course you have to buy sandpaper. No biggie if you only lap a stone occasionally. 320 grit or so is good to start. You probably want to hit it again on like 600 and 1000 grit to help restore the surface smoothness of the stone.
The 4/8k Nort and the 12k Nani are a good setup but if you are gonna buy that much of a progression you probably ought to get something for bevel setting and something for coarse, heavy edge repair. Yeah you can set a bevel on 4k if the edge isn't too bad, but it can take a while. A 1k Chosera is great, though not the cheapest option. Some guys like the 1200 DMT. The 1k King is pretty cheap and sorta good. Norton makes a 220/1000 grit combination stone that will give you a big gun rapid steel remover for fixing bad frowners or big chips, and also a decent bevel setter. The 220 is good for putting a quick edge on a kitchen knife, too.
Me, I like film, though there is something to be said for stones, for setting bevels or heavy edge repair. I as well as many others think it is by far the fastest way for a newbie to get his first really great edge, and it is way cheaper to get started with, and you never have to lap a stone again. Edges are, shall we say, fantasticosuperduperamazinglysuperb? http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/283576-Lapping-film-try-it?highlight=lapping+film+try+it is good reading and a good reference.
Your super flat surface thing you lap your stones on can also serve as your lapping plate with lapping film. And the same flat surface, with sandpaper glued to it, can set your bevel, if you don't want to try film and don't want to get a 1k stone for bevel setting. Just fold and tear a whole sheet lengthwise, and you got a pretty good bevel setter. Not the best, but definitely the cheapest, if you only occasionally need to set a bevel on a razor.
The balsa strop is excellent for some things. I always strop my razors after shaving on a balsa strop with .1u diamond paste. I never have to re-hone. Occasionally I will catch one trying to go dull on me, and I just hit the .5u diamond until the edge is back, then hit the .1u diamond. I find the .1u diamond is much better than CrOx for this. If you use CrOx, then get some FeOx (the red paste, Iron Oxide, nominally .1u grit size) for a fine side to the coarse CrOx side of your balsa. But diamond paste is I think better. www.tedpella.com is where I get mine. Use sparingly. If you think you got enough, you got too much. Way too much. After you rub it in well, it should feel like you don't have anything there. This is for any paste, not just diamond. Most guys put way too much and get mediocre, underwhelming results.
I lapped plenty of stones on an 8x2" DMT - many stones were way bigger than the plate, worked out fine.
But - I prefer w/d over the DMT. I keep saying that, I know - it's repetitive. I just think I get better results with it.
But - I prefer w/d over the DMT. I keep saying that, I know - it's repetitive. I just think I get better results with it.
